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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

ST Official Sequel Trilogy / Legends / Expanded Universe discussion thread

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by YoureNotJonesy, Nov 2, 2012.

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  1. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I'm about 12 chapters into Dark Tide I: Onslaught and so far not seeing Corran as a Stu, maybe that comes later.

    As far as Vader returning, another hell to the no. Dude died. Enough ridiculous resurrections already.

    fett 4: rednecks eat pigs, squirrels and possum. Not people. ;)
     
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  2. fett 4

    fett 4 Chosen One star 5

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    Jan 2, 2000
    He is basically saying that Thrawn wouldn't have let the Ewoks beat him and that he pretty much helped Vader find Hoth. See the end scene in the short story Side Trip to see Thrawn lead Vader by the nose in that. It's a less than subtle way of Zahn showing how much better Mara (In Allegiance) and Thrawn are as characters compared to Lucas's. It could not be more obvious unless he had a big sign put up saying so.
     
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  3. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
    There might be other reasons for Corran being a Marty Stu- but not that one. Him having an item previously established that other people have made- simply means he's "keeping up" with the new standards being set for weaponry.

    And - he screws it up. The double phase, when used, fails miserably- since he used cubic zirconia instead of diamond.

    Not exactly a Stu-ish thing to do.
     
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  4. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 21, 2008
    He is total Stu in NJO 2 and 3.

    Mara: Using her means free marketing. Suddenly all Mara-novels are free advertisements for the ST. Sure, if she doesn't fit she doesn't fit, she doesn't fit, but using her is a smart move from a business perspective.
     
  5. fett 4

    fett 4 Chosen One star 5

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    Jan 2, 2000
    I think it would be more of prequel set before ANH showing his rise to the most feared man in the galaxy or between ANH and ESB and him discovering he has a son rather than post RTJ which would be a Force Ghost if he does appear.
     
  6. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Specific scenes?

    A case could be made that his Stu-moments always end up with his pride being humbled. Sure, he beats a Vong Commander in a fight- but the commander's ships break the commander's promise, and destroy the planet anyway. So that duel was all for nothing.
     
  7. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Chosen One star 6

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    May 21, 2008
    Well, he is given a lot of important stuff to do, he is almost always correct and he constantly lectures those who are with him.
     
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  8. Ryus

    Ryus Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 25, 2013
    Having actually worked in the book publishing industry I can flat out say your math makes way too many assumptions. Book 1 in series typically sell at far better rate then all subsiquent novels, Just because there are 3 books selling about 15 million copies doesnt mean that all sold about 5 million in fact I'd wager it be more like for a concervative guess 7 million for book 1, 5 for book 2, and 3 for book 3... more liberally Id wager 9 million book 1, 4 million book 2, and 2 million book 3. However Id expect the number of people who have read it per book to be around the 6 or 7 million mark (thats a very concervative estimate btw, liberally around 10 million) on alow guess since borrowing from friends vastly increases per book as series go on.

    I actually called a friend and for book 1 of Harry potter a particular store sold ~150 copies of book one this year, ~90 for book 2, and ~70 for book 3. So your math argument is moot and based on logic that doesnt follow actual sales tendencies and shopping habits of real people. Dont feel bad communism worked on paper too :p
     
  9. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
    Sounds a bit like Obi-Wan in Attack of the Clones.
     
  10. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Chosen One star 6

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    May 21, 2008
    Don't like Obi-Wan in AOTC. ****ing hypocrit.
     
  11. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
    Qui-Gon's not exactly averse to the odd lecture in TPM.
     
  12. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Chosen One star 6

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    May 21, 2008
    Yep, and he seems to at least try to follow his own advice.

    PT-OBW doesn't.
     
  13. fenton

    fenton Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 29, 2001
    You need to work on your reading - (its probably less, as some people bought the first and never continued on, but I dunno if you'd argue those people are Mara fans if they never continued, but just to make it easy, lets say 5 million).

    If we are going to use your numbers, clearly Mara didn't make much of an impression on 5 million readers who didn't want to continue reading the story she was introduced in, and only 2 million wanted to read all 3. SO basically you brought your potential Mara fan base down to 2 million.
     
  14. Darth Dru

    Darth Dru Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Feb 1, 2013
    Dude, you're missing the bigger point. Right or wrong (or "bad") has nothing to do with it. There is nothing wrong with sex - agreed. Whether or not sex for pleasure is wrong is a judgement call, and depends on the situation and context. However, whether or not sex for pleasure is an attachment is not up for debate; it's an attachment. Ask any buddhist. The desire for physical pleasure is an attachment. Attachment to physical pleasure is not a good thing. It isn't a moral principle issue. It's an either or issue. To use an analogy - "an obese person isn't going to win a marathon". If you want to be fit, don't eat McDonalds everyday. Whether eating McDonalds everyday is right or wrong is not the question. You cannot serve two masters. No offense, but you either understand it or you don't. There is a reason why Buddhist monks don't get married and aren't millionaires. Ergo the philosophy being discussed.
     
  15. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
    What the Jedi call "attachment" might be closer in meaning to "obsession" though.
     
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  16. Ryus

    Ryus Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 25, 2013
    Oh that 6-7 million comment was a low end estimate, I was assuming a substantial drop in those who read it. You can assume all the numbers you want (fact is The Thrawn trilogy still beats TCW by a large number no matter how you reword it) but having worked in book publishing I can already tell your numbers are just wishful thinking of s person with no experiance in this business and an axe to grind... especially since I was given the sales figures by my friend for that stores Thrawn Trilogy sales and books 2 and 3 sales where quite strong, about a 20% drop fyi between 1 & 2 but oddly same sales for 2-3. He requested I not disclose them so his bosses cant figure out what store he worked at though and Im honoring the request.
     
  17. fenton

    fenton Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 29, 2001
    Its funny that you're now arguing against the numbers that you came up with. You're reverting to the "I'm really right and someone told me so but I can't give any info but just believe me" argument. Always a winner. Almost as good as the "I used to do what we are talking about for a living, so I know more then you" argument. I'm pretty sure you didn't realize that 15 million was spread over all 3 books and you're trying to save your argument.

    Your basic argument is still flawed - Thrawn sales do not = Mara Jade fans, just like Clone War viewers don't = Ashoka fans. And the one big advantage Ashoka has over Mara, in regards to being used in future projects (espically movies or tv) is that she is part of a higher canon then Mara (you can point to the radio dramas all you want, no one listens to them) that is more likely to be tied into future projects, is much more visiable then Mara, appeals more to kids and her biggest supporter is still working at Lucasfilm and making things for them.

    As I said, you're going to be very disapointed when the ST doesn't follow the EU.
     
  18. Ryus

    Ryus Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 25, 2013
    Attachments are bad... yet they yell at you for losing your lightsaber :p
     
  19. Ryus

    Ryus Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 25, 2013
    Not arguing against anything, just one stores sales rate proves nothing statisticly. And I cant give info since what my friend did can get him fired, plus what difference do numbers make to a person like you. Your looking to prove a point not actually trying to find a truth.

    And really, all Im stating is that Ashoka is a limited market character likely not to see much new stories for yes to come, when Mara has proven her popularity with 20+ years of large numbers of die hard fans and Revan 10+ years of fans. Some characters have staying power, I dont believe Ashoka does though but Mara has clearly proven she does with repeated successful sales and a huge following. Yes Mara could go away in Disney's ep 7 but fact is she will remain very popular, when Ashoka will likely go the way of the Pink Power ranger, forgotten by all those kids by the next cool thing until some actually mentions her and they all collectively go oh yeah, I remember her. Mara and Thrawn are characters who helped bring Star Wars back from practially disappearing in the late 80s, they will forever be remembered for that, Ashoka will be remembered for a disasterious season 1 of TCW in terms of number of people not watching next week but by die hard fans of the show as the only character that kept it going as long as it did once her character started getting better plots.

    And Im arguing a fallacy but your incesent screaming that Ill be disappointed when the EU goes away isnt (this is a subjective opinion topic anyways, its all fallacies since its all opinionated). Sorry but Ive admitted this could happen and that harassing comment you keep making is the biggest fallacy here. Plus Im not even arguing for the EU, just that Ep 7 honor it in small ways by bringing what they can into it... it doesnt have to be much and Im very fine with reimaginings. So quit taking me out of context.
     
  20. jedimikey

    jedimikey Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Oct 21, 2012
    I, Jedi. He builds it...but when he goes to surprise his enemy with his extending lightsaber, it doesn't work! Lol!
     
  21. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    Awesome. A George Lucas quote. Where's the part in the PT where it shows that Jedi aside from Anakin aren't celibate? I don't remember that bit.
     
  22. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    It was a PG rated movie. I don't think they could show the lack of celibacy. The main reason we knew that Anakin wasn't, was that he got married and had children.
     
  23. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
    Because if you lose it, and someone attacks you while you don't have it- you're likely to die early- and thus, fail in your duty to the people of the galaxy.
     
  24. Ryus

    Ryus Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 25, 2013
    Of course they where celibate in the PT, I watched almost all the female Jedi die in the background in AotC :p
     
  25. jedimikey

    jedimikey Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Oct 21, 2012
    Ahaha! No...I mean, action figures, starfighers, lightsabers...I'm getting a new (ish) LS-RotJ Hasbro FX lightsaber from Brian's next month, for my 42nd b-day. :D I broke the old one...

    fenton: Seriously now, you think Corran's a Mary-Sue? The extending blade didn't work the first time, and the poor guy is incapable of telekinesis...plus, he makes mistakes and is often hot-headed. The main reason I like Corran is because he's so totally unlike Luke...the concept of Corran is like "if Han were a Jedi"...

    Gotta agree about Mara, though...she's the "uber Jedi chick"...
     
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