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Discussion Official Sequel Trilogy / Legends / Expanded Universe discussion thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Sequel Trilogy (Released Films)' started by YoureNotJonesy, Nov 2, 2012.

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  1. DarthBreezy

    DarthBreezy Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 4, 2002
    Let's see, yes, other than 'the big three', there's Lando, the Droids, Chewie, Yoda, Obi-Wan, Vader.... that makes at least 10... Add Ahsoka, Rex, Jar-Jar, Maul, Anakin, Padme, and a few others from the CW series and that's an already impressive stable of truly beloved characters

    The average SW fan has NO clue about the EU characters, and won't care if the established EU is discarded.
     
  2. Son of a Bith

    Son of a Bith Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2013
    I'm sure you're already getting flamed but I love this idea. Love it.
     
  3. Ryus

    Ryus Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 25, 2013
    You do have a very good point, but Stories is not equal to characters, planets, devices/technology, factions/socities, etc... these are just components that make up a story. So any of these could readily be adapted easy enough with next to no effect on whatever a quality writer will put out (look at any good adaptation from any genre as evidence of this), plus Im sure they'll be given endless leway on how to adapt anything they choose to include (and the LFL employees paid to keep track of the EU are still employeed atm).

    Next off Star Wars is an established story, so no matter what their will be some contaiment. Third Disney wants money and Star Wars books sellmany fold better than lets say non toy related mercandise, so EU books will continue even if not for the sole purpose oftesting ideas then countless other reasons beyind how cheap of an investment it is for Disney andhow much return it makes, plus books like Darth Plageuis proove thatquality control can make even hack writers write well (even if they'll never be master pieces).

    Like you I suspect much of the EU will go, but we just disagree on how much will remain afterwards.
     
  4. jedimikey

    jedimikey Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Oct 21, 2012
    Lol! Seriously? The average fan has no clue? Breezy...while I understand YOUR dislike of the EU, I really don't think you can speak for the entire fanbase by declaring they have no clue. Just what is an "average SW fan", anyway? IMHO, a true fan is fully aware of the EU, wether it's books, video games, or TV shows...it's just that some of us willingly ignore/disregard it.

    By the way, Kat states "thousands of established characters" in the interview I'm thinking of. Thousands. You can cover your ears and sing "la-la-la" all you like, my dear, but it changes nothing. :p

    While I can't speak for "the average fan" either, I think it's safe to say that they are at least aware of it.
     
  5. A Chorus of Disapproval

    A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Fearless Vampire Killer star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    The term "average fan" may mean those who genuinely "love" the films, yet have no idea that Lobot or Salacious Crumb actually have names... let alone that a site such as this could exist... let alone that there are hundreds of books which attempt to fill in gaps. Such people do exist.
     
    lbr789 and Death T like this.
  6. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I'd say casual fans probably don't have any idea or much idea about the EU, unless they happen to walk into the sci/fi fantasy section of Barnes and Noble and say, "Hey, dude, there are Star Wars books over here."
     
  7. Death T

    Death T Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    But Han's a white guy. 8-}
     
  8. jedimikey

    jedimikey Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Oct 21, 2012
    Given.

    But I still think that it's safe to say that the vast majority of fans is at least aware the EU exists.
     
  9. DarthBreezy

    DarthBreezy Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 4, 2002
    Lol! Seriously? The average fan has no clue? Breezy...while I understand YOUR dislike of the EU, I really don't think you can speak for the entire fanbase by declaring they have no clue. Just what is an "average SW fan", anyway? IMHO, a true fan is fully aware of the EU, wether it's books, video games, or TV shows...it's just that some of us willingly ignore/disregard it.

    By the way, Kat states "thousands of established characters" in the interview I'm thinking of. Thousands. You can cover your ears and sing "la-la-la" all you like, my dear, but it changes nothing. :p

    While I can't speak for "the average fan" either, I think it's safe to say that they are at least aware of it.[/quote]

    "My Dear" o_O I'm thinking of the average movie goer - the average fan - not the obsessive types like us who have lengthy memberships on Star Wars message boards. Think about the Marvel Franchise - while it has an equally lunatic fan base like we do, the average movie fan (such as myself in this regard) has no idea about the 'full universe' (for them, the books ARE the main universe, while the films are the EU) won't know Kitty Pride from Electra* - so the Star Wars Movie fan (of which there are FAR more than read the books) simply will not know or care about Mara whatsername or Jason and Darth Thomas Kindadus. They'll want a good movie, with familiar Names and FACES and such...

    *I have no idea if Electra's a DC, or Marvel, or Sid and Marty Croff creation - I just hear the name bandied about...
     
  10. A Chorus of Disapproval

    A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Fearless Vampire Killer star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    The general audience love Captain America and Hulk. Who was that purple guy at the end???
     
  11. jedimikey

    jedimikey Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Oct 21, 2012
    "My Dear" o_O I'm thinking of the average movie goer - the average fan - not the obsessive types like us who have lengthy memberships on Star Wars message boards. Think about the Marvel Franchise - while it has an equally lunatic fan base like we do, the average movie fan (such as myself in this regard) has no idea about the 'full universe' (for them, the books ARE the main universe, while the films are the EU) won't know Kitty Pride from Electra* - so the Star Wars Movie fan (of which there are FAR more than read the books) simply will not know or care about Mara whatsername or Jason and Darth Thomas Kindadus. They'll want a good movie, with familiar Names and FACES and such...

    *I have no idea if Electra's a DC, or Marvel, or Sid and Marty Croff creation - I just hear the name bandied about...[/quote]

    So...not fans at all then, IMO. :p Like I said, GIVEN. The average moviegoer is not a fan, by the literal definition of the word. These are the same people who went to see Twilight or whatever popular movie. The same people will go see Star Wars because it'll be the current popular film, not because they're fans. And you're right, I agree, these same people have no clue about Mara, or Corran, or Jacen (ugh)...because they are NOT fans at all...they are "joe average moviegoer", as you say. So, now I understand what you meant, and I have to agree. But it hardly matters...the big three will be in it...whatever "new" characters appear in the ST WILL (Jedi mind trick) be fine by them.

    Elektra is a Marvel character, BTW, she's Daredevil's girlfriend. :D
     
  12. Ryus

    Ryus Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 25, 2013
    So I must be an anomoly then. A guy who's never read a Marvel comic before that knew without forwarning that it was Thanos and the bulk of his characters background. Seriously, you're underestimaing how much fellow nerds explain there fandoms to one another. I know tons of friends for instance which can name many character from popular series yet never watched/read them. Simple fact nerds share, fans listen, people converse, exposure comes in many ways.

    Do you really think that if we got a trailer for episode VII with an older aged red haired woman many casual movie fans wouldnt want to know about her and then stuble upon speculation it could be Luke's wife Mara Jade from the books. Then hear she used to be an assassin for the emperor but Luke saved her from mind control and that wouldnt be enough for them to accept her (after all Luke wanted to save someone so from his pov that enough for them to accept her atm, and from her pov everyone one likes to be cared and thought of which Luke did.) They also know 40 ish years have passed timeline wise meaning cleatly a lot will have changed and all they'll want at the end of the day is a good movie, so if this character is Mara and well portrayed and the movie is good who cares about anything else.

    Your point is taken but how many people knew who Loki was either... a few people who saw Thor and Marvel fans. Beyond that not so many yet now everyone accepts him. So absence of character knowledge isnt proof that any character who previously exsisted is a bad choice for casual movie only fans. Plus including older characters, even if adapted, has the advantage of having fans have access to tons of other material for them to potentialy buy after enjoying the movie.

    Yes, knowing Mara Jade earns you more nerd points than Darth Vader but fact remains people share what they enjoy and try to recruit people to their fandoms. I have a nephew who knows of Mara Jade solely since she was in TFU multiplayer on Wii... and likes her purely based on her design. Dont underestimate all the ways people can be exposed to these characters, and with 2-3 years until episode VII there is still plenty of time left for more to stumble upon them
     
    jedimikey likes this.
  13. DarthPoppy

    DarthPoppy Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 31, 2005
    The problem gets back to the EU writing. The stories just aren't of the same quality as those in the films; they are recycled, as one would expect from hack writing of spin-off stories; umpteen-thousand heroes seduced by the dark side and redeemed. Fine for die-hards who need more Star Wars, not so fine for people who want top quality films. Clones of Luke and the Emperor? Fine in the EU (I guess), definitely not fine in the films. And if you change the history of the characters, why keep their names? And, let's consider the names, they suffer from the same hack-dom as the stories. Mara Jade? Really? Sounds like a spoiled teenager from the suburbs. Jason spelled funny? Luuuke? The name could have just as well been Tiffany Diamond; these names are just lame; good enough for the purpose of selling spin-off merchandize, but nowhere near the level that the ST films demand. This stuff needs the deep six if the the films are going to be of the quality of the existing films in the franchise. Why give the writers of the ST such lousy material, when they can have the freedom to use their own talents, that are doubtless vastly superior to those of the EU writers; plus they have treatments that George Lucas wrote, that is enough for them to work with.
     
  14. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 21, 2008
    You're giving Hollywood screenwriters too much credit. Actionmovie success formula:

    Caucasian alpha-male personality hero who is either a renegade or rule-abiding.

    Girlfriend is smoking hot and criticizes hero all the time as she is the foil. She will be either kidnapped or killed by villain.

    Villain hates either society or humanity in general. Also a white male.

    Movie starts with mindless but cool-looking action sequence.

    In the final act, the Villain wants to blow something big up and the Hero has to stop him.

    3 act structure.

    Cool vehicles.

    Hero is basically superhuman while cops and such are extremely incompetent. Villain is superhuman as well.

    Some talk about destiny and responsibility mumbo-jumbo. There's usually a story arc about embracing responsibility.

    Hero is only allowed to cry when girlfriend or loved ones die. He never seriously breaks down under pain, pressure, frustration or fear.

    Even though the hero gets more and more powerful, he is never corrupted by this.
     
    Ryus likes this.
  15. Ryus

    Ryus Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 25, 2013
    Luke Skywalker... the name being a reference to daydreaming about a heroic future
    Han Solo... name being reference to only caring about himself
    Leia Organa... name being reference to organon (hell its the plurazation of the word) meaning thought/knowledge thus making her a foil and ally to Luke/Han (as it turns out later mostly Han)
    Mara Jade... name being reference to her being a beautiful but bitter woman, once again making her a foil as implied in the name

    Sorry but Star Wars practially calls for names like these, even the OT.

    Next off Jacens spelling edit was a last minute change plus it can easily be fixed now...

    Finally lets not get into bad name convos with names like Mace Windo or Yoda being highest level cannon. All that really matters is that they stand out and are kinda iconic while being easy enough to pronounce.
     
  16. jedimikey

    jedimikey Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Oct 21, 2012
    *ROFLMAO* is it backwards day? D'you think Mike could write a novel on the same level as, let's say, Salvatore? Lol! He's a SCREENWRITER! Star Wars is pulp fiction space opera.
     
    Ryus likes this.
  17. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 21, 2008
    Hm, Salvatore is maybe a bad example. He doesn't even follow Show, don't tell.

    But aside from that I agree.
     
  18. DarthBreezy

    DarthBreezy Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 4, 2002

    To be VERY honest, I do believe that there ARE far better Star Wars writers out there, sadly with the label of 'FAN' writer. Most people will automatically dismiss all fan writers as Mary-sue self inserting Stephanie Meyers level writers, who wouldn't know how to structure a sentence properly, much less a whole story, which is very sad - on the other hand, I've mentioned before that among my attempts to foray into the EU I actually threw away a book in disgust (and it wasn't the much maligned Vector Prime novel either). I just couldn't get past the god awful writing....

    ETA: And just so people don't think I'm saying I'm the one who should write professionally, here are a few pieces that far surpass anything I've ever read int he 'official' EU, none of which are mine:


    Brother mine - How Darth Vader found out about Luke

    Rebel Apprentice - 12 year old Leia

    Warbird -Wedge Antillies

    Another Day on Hoth - Han and Leia
     
  19. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 21, 2008
    This is true, but claiming that hollywood screenwriters are better than SW authors still seems redonculous if you look at all the action movies produced.
     
    Ryus likes this.
  20. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 9

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Elan Sleazebaggano. Though eventually Lucas retconned that one.
     
  21. DarthBreezy

    DarthBreezy Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 4, 2002
    My biggest groaner "Pre Visula" - It's like no one's even trying anymore...
     
  22. Ryus

    Ryus Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 25, 2013
    ^lolz forget about those two names

    Look I agree there are many many horrible EU character names but most of the big EU ones arent that bad especially in the face of movie character names being 'not normal' either. Anyways bad EU names is a fallacy argument if used just to state the EU shouldnt exist not only due to the above but since they can always be changed or retconned after all too.
     
  23. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 21, 2008
    Read into the first story and I must say I'm not impressed. It is purple prose at its finest (or worst, however you want to see it).
     
    Vthuil likes this.
  24. kubricklynch

    kubricklynch Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 10, 2012
    I was about to bring that up. Worst name ever. I see on Wookieepedia his name is now Elan Sel'Sabagno when did this happen?
     
  25. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 9

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Not sure- but fairly recently.
     
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