Discussion Official Sequel Trilogy / Legends / Expanded Universe discussion thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilers Allowed' started by YoureNotJonesy, Nov 2, 2012.

  1. JediMara77 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2004
    star 4
    Not really. You have Jaina Solo as the protagonist. All the audience needs to know is that she's Han and Leia's daughter and she's a good pilot. You have Mara Jade as Luke's wife. All you need to know is that she's also a Jedi and Luke's wife. They have a son named Ben. Etc. etc.

    You can have a story that doesn't completely contradict the EU and still be its own story. Now I fully expect the EU to be bulldozed, but that doesn't mean it HAS to be. I wouldn't be surprised if Disney does exactly what they're doing with Marvel comics - taking story ideas and characters and running with them.
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  2. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    I thought that Jaina is way older than Ben? If you can bet on one thing it is the protagonist being 18-25 years old. We won't see a full-grown set in her ways woman start on the heroes journey.

    But yea, maybe you can retcon Jainas age. She drank an elixir of youth or whatever nonsense floats LFLs boat.
  3. fenton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 3
    If you are going to write the characters in any "true" way (ie - their histories affect who they are) you need more info then that, you also have to account for characters like Jag and Allana. The audience will want to see Lukes wife - having her die off screen just is bad storytelling. Same with Jaina's twin brother, as would be having Jaina ignore the fact that she killed her twin etc...

    its not as easy as "just saying she is Hans daughter or Luke had a wife". You don't have Anakin and Padme married at hte start of AotC and "just say" they feel in love between movies.

    Marvel doesn't have a single continuity. The movie Avengers are different from the comic book Avengers who are different from the cartoon avengers. I could see Disney doing that as well, though that would involve having a character named Jaina Solo, but she would have almost nothing in common with the Jaina in the books.
    Last edited by fenton, Mar 26, 2013
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  4. Ryus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    Most of us here are talking about a spiritual successor character here Fenton... why do you keep insisting on bringing up this "true" way when the vast bulk of us agree the EU will get bulldozed (hell just a page ago you said Jaina trained Allana, which never happened since she has had no master yet and Leia would be if you forced her to have one... but this brings up a good point why couldnt Jaina train Allana? just cause it would make the EU non cannon or Alternate Universe, well, so what? Just cause it hasnt happened yet doesnt mean it couldnt ever happen). Even you have said there could be a jedi with gotee wearing green in the background, some of us just see more as possible too. So what imho if NJO is retconned or made Alternate universe, all us EU fans want is some recignition of the EU being reflected in the new movies due to 22 years of funding LFL by buying it (35 years if you include thecmarvel comics and splinter of a minds eye). Its not hard to do and if it really constrains a screenwriter then they arent good of a screenwriter, yet Arnet has prooven very adaptive with a constrained universe like Toy Story 3 already so this argument is a fallacy.

    Next off please stop acting like you know the mind of every employee at LFL, we know you could be right about what they'll do but that doesnt you will be either. Your argument was one big speculation, it fit sure but will it be right is an entirely different matter.
    Last edited by Ryus, Mar 26, 2013
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  5. fenton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 3
    I've never said my argument isn't speculation, but its also an educated guess, its not "what I'd like to see" or a shifting one like yours (since now you're apparently only talking abotu spiritual seccessors......)

    So you're calling Abrams and his Star Trek good bad writers because they didnt' want to deal with the Trek continuity and work in Shatners books so they could put Kirk in the movie? And you really think Toy Story and Star Wars movies and EU are comparable and a similar situation? If those are your examples, I have no interest in conitnuing to talk about with you because you either don't understand what is being talked about or you just like to argue for the sake of arguing.
  6. Ryus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    Or maybe Ben could summon the Unifying Force like Jacen did and aged a decade in a few moments. Thus proving he's the rightful heir to lead the next generation of Jedi. :p
  7. Ryus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    And what me pointing towards TCW borrowing from the EU yet using it for new stories isnt also an educated guess. Sorry the door swings both ways fenton.

    Next off Star Trek has always delved in Alternate universes and did use a character from the original, using your arguments lack of Shatner while ignoring JJ Abrams featuring Lenoard Nimoy is a very poor ground for your argument to stand upon. Simply put, I never said every character from the EU had to be included, just dont write out those they dont have too and include a few that they can. I get it the film will only be two hours.

    Finally its much easier to sound consistant when saying it all must go, I only come off as coming from every direction since you keep attacking in every direction. Point is they can respect the EU in infinate ways, so clearly I have many ways I can approach this from many directions so dont misconstrude me defending my pov of the EU in many different ways as proof of my inconsistancy being proof of me being wrong. It just means that Ive just shown yet another way it could work, so arguing flexability is in itself a possitive in favor of EU elements surviving. Repeating the same thing doesnt make you correct just as me having countless ways the EU could be adapted make me correct, it just means we both have arguments for our pov, nothing more.
    Last edited by Ryus, Mar 26, 2013
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  8. Calpaz Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2013
    Do we have an speculation as to when we might get some official information? Honestly id like to have Disney flat out say either "yes, no, or partially" for how they will be treating the EU. they dont even need to elaborate, just tell us something :p

    As for 7, what if they set it 50ABY and the force is being all weird and Luke is drawn to Kashyyyk's shadowlands and finds a resurrected Chewbacca because of the Force starting to become more powerful as a.. force. Luke and new people look to work with this almost sentient? powerful Force as a healing/good thing and the new Sith guy looks to submit it to his will and do evil things. Or is that just pushing it too far?
  9. kubricklynch Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2012
    star 3
    Personally, I doubt we will get a firm answer from Disney one way or the other. Most likely, we will just have to figure it out based on plot details and character descriptions. Or when they announce Chewie's return.
  10. Ryus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    ^Even Chewies return wont tell us too much since we'd still wonder if other EU elements made it, his lack of return would tell us a lot more actually.
    Likely we wont get anything until a month or two after JJ Abrams is done with Star Trek and had time to accimate and absorb everything that will get thrown at him. Oddly though we have an odd combination here, Star Wars Prequals had more spoilers then just about any movie in recent ages but JJ Abrams is known for total secrecy and even publishing lies just to surprise and misdirect audiences. So your guess is as good as mine
    Last edited by Ryus, Mar 26, 2013
  11. Jedi Comedian Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 27, 2012
    star 2
    I don't think Lucasfilm (remember, Lucasfilm is still in charge of Star Wars, not Disney) will EVER just come flat out and say "all these books are now non-canon". To do so would be bad business - lots of people who might potentially buy the books would be put off. Instead, they'll just release the movie and it'll be up to us to work out where things stand.

    Yeah, I have to say that's too "out there" and weird for my liking.
    Last edited by Jedi Comedian, Mar 26, 2013
  12. Calpaz Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2013

    I wonder if this is how it felt to be the Jedi Council trying to see the future but having everything clouded by secrecy...
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  13. Ryus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    I sense a plot to destroy this thread :p
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  14. fenton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 3
    But Lucasfilm is owned by Disney.

    I'm sure we'll get some kind of annoucnment when Episode VII is closer to release. And if the ST does stomp on the EU, they'll have to address it. It will only be bad for business if they don't have quality material to tie into/support the ST.
  15. Jedi Comedian Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 27, 2012
    star 2
    Yes, but Lucasfilm are making the creative decisions, not Disney. Disney just pay the bills and collect the profits (like they do with Pixar and Marvel).

    Why? I was a little young for the internet community at the time, but I don't recall Lucasfilm ever making an official statement saying which parts of Marvel and the Thrawn Trilogy had been rendered non-canon by the prequels.

    Of course they will. But I'd be amazed if they made any announcement other than a vague "new era of Star Wars publishing" type thing.
  16. A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Riot Deterrent

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Aug 19, 2003
    star 7
    The closest we will probably ever recieve as far as a statement to the public is Lucas' EU definition from Starlog #337:

    "I don't read that stuff. I haven't read any of the novels. I don't know anything about that world. That's a different world than my world. But I do try to keep it consistent. The way I do it now is they have a Star Wars Encyclopedia. So if I come up with a name or something else, I look it up and see if it has already been used. When I said [other people] could make their own Star Wars stories, we decided that, like Star Trek, we would have two universes: My universe and then this other one. They try to make their universe as consistent with mine as possible, but obviously they get enthusiastic and want to go off in other directions".

    I know this quote has been posted to death on these forums, but in leiu of the ST being based on Lucas' treatment/ideas... and no legitimate redaction by Lucas of this opinion, even though he did supervise TCW to be mindful of EU... this is the most educated guess on how post-ROTJ EU material will be treated in regards to the films in the saga.
    Last edited by A Chorus of Disapproval, Mar 26, 2013
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  17. fenton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 3
    Disney lets those companies act independently and their own management run things, but if you think they have ZERO input you're fooling yourself. The Clones Wars being cancelled was most likely a Disney decision, based on (from what I've read) their desire to shift the focus to the ST era and the high cost of producing the show, which probably didn't fit with Disney's business model when it comes to producing TV shows.

    Because ignoring your fan base is much worse then changing the continuity. Making a statement, even if its just on the website, at least shows they care and want the fans to be aware of what they are doing and what changes are coming. Its good public relations.
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  18. fenton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 3
    Excatly. And the ST will part of George Lucas's universe. The question is what they'll do with the EU - restart it and stick with the 1 continuity way of doing things or 2) The Marvel way of doing things with more then verison of their characters out there in different mediums aimed at different audiences.
  19. Jedi Comedian Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 27, 2012
    star 2
    I never said it has zero input. I'm just saying that it's inaccurate to say that Disney is making all these decisions when Lucasfilm is still the company making Star Wars.

    Cancelling a show is a business decision. Adhering to current EU is a creative decision. The fact that Disney is making business decisions like cancelling Clone Wars does not mean that they will get involved in all the details of what is and isn;t canon.

    It would be polite of them to be upfront, yes. But that doesn't mean they will be. If Lucasfilm sent out a press release tomorrow saying current post-RotJ EU is invalid, sales of the books would plummet. Why would Disney or Lucasfilm want that? If they don't say anything, yeah, they'll piss some people off, but these people are likely to be the same ones who'd get annoyed with the EU being rebooted anyway.
  20. DarthPoppy Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2005
    star 4
    Ever noticed how Star Wars films are often represented in top 10 and top 100 lists of films of all time?
    Ever noticed how EU is never represented in top 10 and top 100 lists of literature of all time?

    I think your answers lie here.
  21. A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Riot Deterrent

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Aug 19, 2003
    star 7
    Oh good Lord... despite its truthiness... this will not end well...
  22. fenton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 3
    I don't think anyone said they are making all the decisions

    Adhering to the EU is a business decision as well. They'll want hte movie to appeal to the biggest possible audience, you don't bring in more people by making the movie a follow up toa book series that very few have read. The same reason Abrams Star Trek movie restarted the continuity instead of telling the origin story of Kirk and Spock, giving themselves a clean slate gave them more options which made the movie better, which made it more profitable. And even from a creative stand point, as I've pointed out, its unlikely they'll adhere to the EU, given who is working on it and what they've said.

    Just because It hink they will do it doesn't meant they won't be smart about it and time it properly to min. the lack of sales of books ont he shelf (if they do end the current EU) and plan the statement with the release of new material that is in line with what they want to do.
  23. DarthBreezy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2002
    star 6

    Oh it's simple - the EU books are not 'great literature' but 'just fiction' - not great, or life changing, but just for some a fun read - a good majority of my favorite books will never make a 'top 100' of whatever list.


    ETA :p
    But come on, you KNOW "The Glove of Darth Vader' Trilogy will be the book aliens find in a thousand years, and think it's a fine example of 20th century human high brow art....
    Last edited by DarthBreezy, Mar 26, 2013
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  24. DarthPoppy Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2005
    star 4
    Right, but you wouldn't want the sequels to your favorite films based on that kind of reading. And, I am sure those at Disney realize this.
  25. kubricklynch Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2012
    star 3
    "Still, Iger wanted to make sure that Lucas, who was used to controlling every aspect of Star Wars, from set design to lunchboxes, understood that Disney, not Lucasfilm, would have final say over any future movies. “We needed to have an understanding that if we acquire the company, despite tons of collegial conversations and collaboration, at the end of the day, we have to be the ones who sign off on whatever the plans are,” says Alan Horn, chairman of Walt Disney Studios."

    http://www.businessweek.com/article...ught-lucasfilm-and-its-plans-for-star-wars#p4