Discussion Official Sequel Trilogy / Legends / Expanded Universe discussion thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilers Allowed' started by YoureNotJonesy, Nov 2, 2012.

  1. kubricklynch Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2012
    star 3
    I want Mara Jade in the ST as Luke's wife. Make her younger than him so she can still be hot. And alive, dammit.
  2. Vthuil Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2013
    star 4
    Part of the problem is that some people's response is clearly "I wouldn't".
  3. Sinrebirth SWC and EUC Forum Moderator

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2004
    star 7
    I have every vision that we'll find out Chewbacca was replaced with a new type of droid before the Vong War and he is found by the heroes in time for the ST.

    If he's in it.

    The EU will cope just fine; it's survived Marvel being made non-canon; it's survived the Prequels; it's recovering from TCW as we speak.

    All will be fine in the end.
    DarthApprentice, DarthBoba and Ryus like this.
  4. Ryus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    Very true, but at least it would be forbidden to deviate into a "this is why the EU should be ______[aka dump it/keep it]" convo. Also in my ideal thread people would more ask for clarifaction of how the EU would be adapted as a result of _____ change, then a I'd prefer if this happens instead. My idea is more like the best ideas thread, yes there will be limited "I wouldnt" but hopefully more "I like this idea but how about if we tweek it this way" and heres an example

    Huge YES Imho to Mara still being alive... as to her being younger I could see it working if she was something like 10 years younger max, though her back story would have to be adapted due to either have only been in training at the time of the Emperors death or being trained by the Imperial Remenant like how Thrawn went looking for C'baoth... I'd avoid having her smuggler past though unless an Imperial Cover due to not wanting to make her a Han Solo copy if you make her younger though though I supposeit could work if they made her Kardde's daughter to avoid that critisism though it would likely cut her Imperial past as a result.

    Question, what do you envision as her past due to making her younger?

    Anyways thats what Im thinking a thread like that should be, more like a writters room where an idea is put out based on taking something from the EU and people just constructivly play with the idea or just choose to avoid talking about it. Also I dont envision it being a pitch for the entire movie just an idea that could play into it. Finally its not meant to be a, well bring Mara back would meaning editing Jacen too, if the poster wants to bring it up fine but if not this isnt a EU edit here effects this thread, this is just an idea pitch thread in my mind. Oh well said my peace on the matter.
    Last edited by Ryus, Mar 28, 2013
  5. kubricklynch Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2012
    star 3
    "Question, what do you envision as her past due to making her younger?"

    Good question. I didn't really think past wanting a hot redhead.
  6. Ryus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    lolz, love the honesty ;)
  7. jasman Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 29, 1998
    star 4
    Lots of Heinlein's works (Between Planets, Podkayne of Mars, Red Planet, The Rolling Stones) were written for adolescent minds. I'm sure those would appeal to most EU fans as well. ;)
  8. chris hayes Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 13, 2012
    star 4
    No he won't and Chewbacca will undoubtedly be in which again will make Lucas look a little stupid but if you have the Skywalker / solo children with different names than the EU he will get even more stupid.......
  9. jasman Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 29, 1998
    star 4
    So, let me get this straight. If the movies don't agree with the EU, it's the movies that are wrong? [face_rofl]
  10. Jcuk Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2013
    star 4
  11. DarthPoppy Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2005
    star 4
    How does any of this make Lucas look stupid? It just clarifies what was always known--that the EU was written by other authors for people who wanted more Star Wars stuff; Lucas has said a million times that the films were his domain and that books, comics, etc. were not. The only thing that would seem stupid is if the film team was bound by literally hundreds of disparate stories by different authors. Just a reminder--all this stuff is imaginary, so all the canon discussion, etc., is just a marketing tool. Of course they are going to say that a given EU product is "official" or "canon", as it helps sell that product. But already they couldn't do that (they had some scruples) so they came up with the "levels of canon" nonsense. So, Lucas has always maintained that the films come first. So like it the PT, EU fans will likely get some bones thrown their way, things that add familiarity like a planet name here or a minor character (whose name only appears in the credits) from the EU. But the EU will be superseded for anything of substance, because the EU stuff just isn't important enough to enough people to integrate. For everyone delighted to see Mara Jade, there will be someone rolling their eyes about EU crap in the films. And lets face it, as has been raised here a thousand times, a lot of the EU is pretty silly, so why give the filmmakers the unnecessary challenge of sorting "good" EU from "bad" EU? And why suppose that Luke even gets married in the first place, or has children? Because the EU said so? That is pretty big constraint put on the film makers. Leia and Han's marriage is to be expected because of the story seen in the films. But they do not have to have the children that the EU says they have, and please, if they do, give them less ridicules names!
  12. Jcuk Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2013
    star 4
    There's obviously a lot of EU fans here, and that's cool if that's your thing. But despite everything that's been said, the one statement that should be strictly adhered to is the people involved in this have categorically said this new trilogy will be an 'original' story. They haven't said were taking ideas from across the whole spectrum of EU material to make this film. The fact it more or less looks like Luke, Han and Leia will be in it doesn't mean they will be following their story arcs that have been created in an EU book, or whatever. 'Original' means exactly what it says on the tin.
  13. EHT New Films Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Sep 13, 2007
    star 6
    And Chewbacca... he's gotta be in it. :p
  14. Jcuk Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2013
    star 4
    Without question. Chewie HAS to be in it!
    eht13 likes this.
  15. fenton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 3
    Expense explains why there is no season 7 and why they didn't want anymore production to take place. Shifting focus as well as not wanting their property to be on cartoon network would explain why season 6 was canceled.

    There is talk/rumors/reports that they are working on another tv show and I don't think it will be long before we see another Star Wars show on a Disney channel, but completely under Disneys control, with more of their people in charge, doing things the way Disney does them, with the focus on what Disney wants the focus on.

    I'm not as familiar with Star Wars 1313, were it is in production, it would fit in with what Disney wants to do etc... I do know Disney's gaming arm has been shifting focus to mobile iOS gaming and away from expensive console gaming. It could simply be they weren't impressed with the game, that outside of the short demo's they showed it isn't very good so they scrapped it.
  16. Jcuk Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2013
    star 4
    1313 looked 'ok' but nothing spectaclar. But in saying that I'm solely basing my opinion on the trailer I saw. I did think the idea of going into the bowels of Coruscant quite cool but, there you go.
  17. Miras-Etrin Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2013
    star 1
    Mara Jade is the first EU entity that is gonna be axed conceptually. Main hero of the previous story can´t have chick that he hooked up with off-screen, while romance of Leia and Han was given and they are therefore free to conceive new protagonists.

    I would also like to remind you that EU has also strong story going in the farther future - Star Wars: Legacy. How would you want to do absolutely unpredictable story when fans would know that galaxy is approaching rule of Darth Kreyt? I know, these fans are still minority, but it would be another pointless restriction.
    Last edited by Miras-Etrin, Mar 29, 2013
  18. kubricklynch Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2012
    star 3
    See, I feel like things such as Luke finding a wife could be off-screen. I mean 30-40 years have passed, audiences will accept that the characters have gone through some changes. Getting married is a part of life that most people do. However, what audiences wouldn't accept, is things like Han and Leia's sons getting killed, Chewie dying, the entire galaxy getting invaded by extragalactic aliens, etc...

    As for the Legacy stuff, I've never read it and don't really know anything about it besides the basics. So I can't really comment, besides the fact that the filmmakers aren't gonna give two poops about it. They shouldn't have gone so far in the future anyways, IMO.
    Jcuk and Ryus like this.
  19. stellarmagic01 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 4
    It's a question of pros and cons... you know, cost benefits analysis of a sort with all these things.

    The issue of Mara Jade is a great example, and considering just how weighty of a figure she's been in the Expanded Universe all these years, is probably going to be the most divisive choice for the writers, no matter what they choose to do.

    Her incorporation makes a statement on the Jedi Order itself... and while there is a bit of truth in the argument 'But we didn't see her in the last movies' there's also a huge truth to the idea that getting married is a natural part of someone's life. Giving Luke a wife immediately tells the audience that this New Jedi Order of Luke's is fundamentally different then the old one.

    She could be dropped into the story, alive, quite easily. But that doesn't mean it would be easy for Luke to be widowed with a teenage son at the start either. We're not going to see the wholesale adoption of the Expanded Universe as we know it, rather we'll see the inclusion of elements that cost the story nothing.

    If Luke has a child who is the new protagonist of the story, it costs next to nothing to include his wife. Kind of natural to have her. Plus, Mara Jade is one of the few EU figures to sell as the central figure of novels. She sells, so it makes good business sense.

    The only reason to refuse having her in the film are: A.) stick to the 'no-attachment rule' for the New Jedi Order. B.) stick to the current EU timeline and ignore she ever existed.

    I think most of us fans wouldn't be that happy with either outcome... The 'no-attachment' rule makes the Jedi less human and therefore more difficult to relate to as humans. Strict adherence to the EU timeline would result in a monstrously bad and disjointed film as the audience is quickly wondering what the hell happened.

    Issues here are far more convoluted then adhering to the EU or ejecting it wholesale. I'd expect a level of use of EU material akin to how the Clone Wars has done things. It is source material, but not holy writ... What works with the story Lucas outlined for the writers will be incorporated. What doesn't, will be ignored. It's as simple as that.
  20. Miras-Etrin Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2013
    star 1
    In any case, we can say that Luke discovered way to resurrect aunt Beru and he had to trade his marrige with Force shade of Palpatine :) .

    Yes, he can have wife. Problem is that she could have been so "minimalized" in the limited screen time and just general informations for causual viewer, that she might end just as lame fanservice.
  21. fenton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 3
    How does including Mara make good business sense? As you said she already sells, but a new character would sell just as much as Mara would after the boost from the movie.

    The no attachment rule doesn't make them hard to relate too at all. Obi-wan, Yoda, Mace, Qui-Gon - all popular Jedi characters with no attachments.

    The problem with the post RotJ EU is that it can/will/would be almost comletely destroyed by a couple different ideas from Lucas. TCW EU didn't make many big moves with the characters beacuse of the 3rd movie that was coming.
  22. Ryus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    THANK YOU. Fully agree with everything you just said.

    Now fenton, its really simple. Being a virgin Jedi master is no longer cool to the bulk of the market, in fact I think it never was popular with young females who make up about 50% of average movie audiences these days (hell it wasnt popular with most people, let alone young women, just read any AotC review and soon enough you'll see tons of rants on the no attachment rule and for the record Obi-wan and Yoda where popular long before the no marriage rule and Mace and Qui-gon never reached the popularity of those two). Disney wants to make the movie to be successful, lets look at the a few movies that have made tons of money, Avatar had a huge romance plot to it, Avengers had 2 minor romances running, and Titanic was entirly a love movie. Now lets look at Star Wars (IV for clarifaction) even it had two guys being attracted to the same girl and it was the biggest success when taking inflaction into account yet Attack of the Clones with its virgin Jedi (well as far as the average viewer assumed they where due to the no attachment rule) and its stale love dialog and acting was the least successful Star Wars film. Now yes, Mara would likely have a minor role since it will be the new gen who are the stars but having Luke get hitched in the last 30-40 years gives RotJ a happier ending in retrospect since people can realize Luke got his happy ending with a girl soon the after... plus it lets the Skywalker name carry on beyond blood lines.

    You already agree about the need to drop the EU so no need to explane that one. However back toa Mara making it into VII yet it not following the EU, every other series that went from a single continuity to a multicontinuity survived and rarely did fans get confused. So unless as stated A) VII will continue the no attachment rule (which in this case assume that excudes the possibilty of Luke just sleeping with Mara but no marriage resulting from it but kids that do) or...B) VII followes the EUtimeline to the letter then Mara is such a hughly successful character there is no business reason not to include her and as argued many many times she doesnt have to be a carbon copy of the EU mara, they can change her up quite a bit if they feel like it so just cause she was often a, as you state, Mary-Sue that doesnt mean she'll have to remain as such.

    Next off please recall Mara was stated to be Luke's foil by Timothy Zahn and foils are golden opportunities for great writers...
    Last edited by Ryus, Mar 29, 2013
  23. Jcuk Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2013
    star 4
    You see, the majority who go to see Episode VII will not give a flying **** or be blissfully unaware as to wether the film follows this book or is relevant to the story arc from that book or wether Luke's wife and Leia's kids names are as they were told in so and so. They just will not care. All they will want to see is a great Star Wars film no matter what. You'll all be on here spitting blood no doubt if Lukes wife (if indeed he has one in the film) isn't Mara Jade, or the kids aren't called Jacen and whatever else. It will be irrelevant. Do you not understand this?
  24. stellarmagic01 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 4
    Do not... underestimate the power of the expanded universe figures... or suffer Star Trek's fate, Star Wars will.

    And Jcuk? What do they gain by not having her be the wife (if Luke has a spouse)?

    I can understand ignoring or ejecting material from outside sources because it compromises the general story, or shrinks the audience (like following the EU explicitly would). I can not understand ignoring established characters that would fit the story and already have a substantial fan following, in favor of angering the fanbase by removing those figures from existence in the Star Wars universe's canon and replacing them with new people.

    Episode VII is already a huge gamble, as we'll be introducing new protagonists to the mainstream audience and trying to gain a new generation of Star Wars fans. As a result, expect the rest of the story to be rather conservative... as some gambles have a history of backfiring in Star Wars (Jar Jar Binks anyone?). In which case, it makes more sense to use elements that are sure to please the fan base then elements that will alienate them. At the same time they have to keep it open enough that the mainstream can easily grasp and jump into the story when the crawl starts.

    This means the use of some EU elements, particularly fan favorites, and a willingness to ignore or eject material that would be difficult for the mainstream to accept or even know about. So... no Vong, no Second Galactic Civil War, no Jacen's fall.

    We'll likely see the Solo twins (even if they aren't the protagonists), Chewbacca, and Mara Jade... As Star Wars is about the Skywalker family, I'd expect a third generation protagonist or multiple protagonists (siblings?) with the Skywalker name. One might be Ben, but not necessarily as he's really not that well known... and if they do use a Ben Skywalker, definitely expect the kid to be 'in name only' as the formative events of his life are the very things that the general audience wouldn't accept without seeing.

    Fenton, I get that you don't like Mara Jade... what you fail to get is that Mara Jade was designed as a foil to Luke Skywalker. She is a Mary-Sue because... Luke is a Gary-Sue. The reason those type of characters exists is because they're popular in a lot of fiction... be it Superman or Harry Potter.
  25. Ryus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    Could give a flying ----- about Jacen. Good character whos journey I enjoyed but he really just became a vessel to make a copy of Vader's fall. Mara on the other hand is a golden opportunity to establish Luke's jedi order isnt what it was in the days of the old republic (breaking away from the no attachment rule or at least loosening it), she can also give Luke kids and thus carry on the Skywalker name another very marketable opportunity due to how ICONIC that name is, and also FINALLY proved the Star Wars saga a strong female Jedi Master who can be a role model for any potential future female jedi characters (likely butt not limited to any futture Skywalkers or Solos) cause lets face it both Padme and Leia fail here. Just look at starwars.coms march madness results since the two virtually tied unlike every other match, clearly this implies neither character was that strong of a female role model or more attractive to male audiences. Mara would be a giant leap in the right direction to fix this (after all who expects much action from Carrie Fisher in VII).

    Mara is potentially marketing gold... I dont even really care if she isnt a smuggler or Emperors hand, its just her potential benifit to the series as a whole cant be understated, especially with a writer like Arndt on board. She doesnt have to be too close the the EU version but some homage would satisfy and passify tons of EU fans too while likely not effecting the story treatment by GL that much at all... even Lucas said the Jedi wherent celibate, so who really cares if they get married either (Id like it sure due to distancing itself from the PT but its not needed).