Discussion Official Sequel Trilogy / Legends / Expanded Universe discussion thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilers Allowed' started by YoureNotJonesy, Nov 2, 2012.

  1. Jcuk Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2013
    star 4
    Your a fan of the EU, and I get that. But the fact is, no matter how much you try to ignore and dismiss it, the majority of the ticket paying public will not care/ be unaware of these details. It will have no relevance to them at all. And if you find out before hand that Luke has no wife in the film, and Han and Leia's kids aren't would you expected them to be called, will that stop you from going to see the film? No, it won't will it. You'll be there queuing up like everyone else excitedly looking forward to the film.
  2. DarthPoppy Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2005
    star 4
    Further, leaving out Mara Jade and the EU version of Skywalker/Solo children actually expands the universe, as the existing EU really contracts it, and that is why many film fans don't care for the EU. To some of us, having a great Jedi like Anakin fall to the dark side is moving and tragic, because not only does it not have to happen, but we assume it is unusual. Having a wife who was dark side become light side and light side children become dark side, etc. is repetitive, dull, and that this point unoriginal and undramatic. Giving that whole universe the heave-ho allows for other, new and exciting potential plot lines to unfold. It was ok that we knew where the PT was going, as it was a prequel, it was backstory. I, for one, hope that the ST will be a surprise; I am glad I have no clue where it will go, that is why I am excited about it. I want the OT characters for continuity, but I want an introduction of new characters, so I can be surprised along with them, just like we were back in the day when we found out Vader was Luke's father, or that Yoda was actually a Jedi master, etc. This is the reason some of us want no reference to the EU, we want a new story. We don't want to know the new characters, we want to meet them.
  3. Jcuk Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2013
    star 4
    God don't let that idiot that said he prefers to watch the saga in chronological order, and would recommend to any new fans that that's the best way to watch it hear you say that about the revelation of Vader and Yoda. He'd be on here having babies lol
  4. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    Luke's not a Gary Stu in the movies. He is a guy who has some significant weaknesses, like over the top heroism which almost got him fried by Palpatine. Other weaknesses would be his impatience and his daddy issues. Yes, in the end everything turned out alright for Luke but only because he had a lot of support.
  5. LunarMoth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2012
    star 4
    Introducing Mara Jade in Ep VII would be terrible. She didn't exist when the the original characters were created, much like Padme didn't exist at that time. The difference is that Padme was an invention of necessity that only works because she existed in the past of the OT characters in a time actually covered in the films. It doesnt work in reverse, much like many (too many) elements of the EU.
    run_luke_run likes this.
  6. Ryus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    Mara Jade never was ds Darthpoppy, even in her darkest days of her past she was neutral at worst. Luke's saving her was more just getting her from neutral to Light side.

    LunarMoth, sorry but if you want only characters who "originally" exsisted then your stuck with a casting with an average age of 65, so sorry thats a fallacy argument. Its been 30-40 years so clearly they've gained a few allies since then be it new cast or EU crossover cast.

    Darth_Perva in terms of power Luke has always been a Gary Stu, only his idiocy/innocence/slightly younger aged rebelliousness saved him from being so personality wise and with a 30-40 time jump and presumably wisdom he gained since then the odds of that still holding true are slim at best.

    Jcuk your argument swings both ways, true the average audience member wont care if they get included but they wont care either if any EU character is included as long as the movie rocks. You are just arguing for what you want and seeking reasoning to support it without considering if the argument actually also supports its inclusion.
    Robimus likes this.
  7. TigerCraneFist Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2002
    star 4
    Wha..? Am I reading this wrong or are you saying Mara Jade shouldn't be in the movie because she hadn't been invented when they made the OT? So basically, you don't want a single new character in these new films?
    That's just... wow! [face_hypnotized]
    Ryus and kubricklynch like this.
  8. DarthBreezy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2002
    star 6
    [quote="TigerCraneFist, post: 50597832, member: 715591]
    Wha..? Am I reading this wrong or are you saying Mara Jade shouldn't be in the movie because she hadn't been invented when they made the OT? So basically, you don't want a single new character in these new films?
    That's just... wow! [face_hypnotized][/quote]

    Yes, you are reading it wrong I think - MJ isn't even a 'new' character - and I hope she's not part of the ST for a myriad of reasons.
  9. Vthuil Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2013
    star 4
    This just outright makes no sense. At the time when the original characters were created, Yoda didn't exist.
    kubricklynch and Ryus like this.
  10. Robimus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2007
    star 5
    That would be awesome. Everytime any such suggestion is made here it gets shut down instantly with a bunch of jargon about killing off the EU completely.
    Ryus likes this.
  11. LunarMoth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2012
    star 4
    Yes, you are reading it wrong...... I'm not saying that she shouldn't be in the ST becasue she wasn't invented when they made the OT.

    Let me try to clarifiy what I meant.......

    In the writting process, Lucas never intended for this character to exist. When Mara Jade was invented for the EU, there was no expectation of the ST becoming a reality. Now that we have an ST on the horizon, and it seems to be set well past the time Jade would have made her debut, her existance in the story wouldn't fit.

    Padme, on the other hand, fits because obviously the twins had to be born, and that takes place in the past of the OT. She didn't exist when the OT was written, but because of the prequel nature of that part of the story, you can do it without issue.
    run_luke_run likes this.
  12. Vthuil Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2013
    star 4
    This still doesn't make sense. You're basically saying it's impossible for the ST to introduce any new characters.

    I mean, I'm not saying I want Mara Jade in the ST. There's too much baggage attached to the real deal, and an "in name only" version is kind of pointless. But if they introduce a new character as Luke's wife - which is reasonably likely - how is that character supposed to be more acceptable to you?
    kubricklynch likes this.
  13. Ryus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    First off got to agree with Vthuil, what your saying is still contradictory.

    Next to support this please know Lucas's story treatments for episode VII is rumored to be a whopping 10 pages. So LunarMoth, I highly doubt any characters exsisted in it beyond the OT cast and main cast of the ST (especially since we all know Lucas, who always prefers talking the tech of Star Wars and like describing worlds more than characters since Lucas is very visual inclined).. so most likely no one exsisted really till Arndt sat down and wrote the 50 page screen play draft. Plus Lucas himself pretty much said his only job now is saying you cant do this with there powers but you can do that and Star Wars car have antigravity not wheels... seems to me he's given the writting staff plenty of free reign as long as they dont break Star Wars. Vader didnt even become Lukes dad until the second drafting of Empire and Leia became Lukes sister in the writting process of Jedi... so I doubt these story treatments are as complete as you believe. Btw here is a link to the leaked first draft... in it Obiwan's force ghost introduces Anakins force ghost to Luke and Anakin reveals Luke has a long lost sister.

    http://www.geeksofdoom.com/2010/05/...kes-back-reveals-alternate-star-wars-universe

    So sorry, but once you know your behind the scenes Star Wars history you know how vague Lucas's story treatments are... so seeing how little the final product matched the draft based off of Lucas's story treatment I fully believe the writers have so much wiggle room it's not even funny. So EU characters appearing isnt hard to fathom at all and if Luke has a wife or kids... then Mara is a logical character to fill a very vague plot nessessity and good business sense for the EU fans. Practically the same nessessity Lucas faced when he made the prequals and needed a mother for Luke and Leia, true she's not EU but fact is he needed but instead of Lucas wanting to fill it with his own character you have LFL with a holocron full of EU characters and Disney wanting to cash in on that as implied several times by Disney CEO Inger.
    Last edited by Ryus, Mar 29, 2013
    Robimus likes this.
  14. fett 4 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jan 2, 2000
    star 4
    Urghh I thought that was both a cop out and contradictory when Zahn first had that written back in HoT, please don't indulge him. It's got even worse now that apparently she is meant to be Judge Dredd.
  15. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    So he is more powerful than most of the other Jedis. That doesn't make a character a Gary Stu as someone has to be the most powerful. Besides, Luke is not over the top powerful. Characters like Yoda are almost on his level.

    Gary Stus are perfect. They have no serious weaknesses and they almost never fail. Luke fails and he has serious weaknesses. Therefore = not Gary Stu.

    Don't abuse Luke to defend MJ. MJs status as Mary Sue shouldn't be apologized imo as it is a severe flaw in how her character is written. If she is in the movies I hope its a down toned version.
    Last edited by Darth_Pevra, Mar 30, 2013
  16. EviL_eLF Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2003
    star 4
    Mara Jade won't be in it anyway either... she died. ;)
  17. TigerCraneFist Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2002
    star 4
    But... if Luke was to have a kid in these new films (which seems natural since they'll probably wanna chash in on the Skywalker name) - then there should be a mother, right? And since the only love interest Luke had in the OT was Leia, who turned out to be his sister, then a new character as the mother would be a necessity - just like Padme was. So what's the difference (for a general audience who know nothing of the EU) between having Mara Jade be the mother and having a new character be the mother?

    Actually, reading and rereading your post - it still seems as if you don't want the character in the film because she was not invented by the time of the OT, or "Lucas never intended for this character to exist" - he never intended for Luke and Leia to be siblings. He never intended for Ben to die. He never intended for the character of Yoda to exist.
    That is, of course, until he did.
    kubricklynch likes this.
  18. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    TPTB won't give two damns who died and who didn't in the tie-in material.
    Vthuil and kubricklynch like this.
  19. LunarMoth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2012
    star 4
    The difference is that the time where a relationship would happen and a child would result is not being covered.

    You are reading to far into my steatement as far as thinking that I dont want her in the ST because she wasn't invented by the time of the ST. I think that idea is as silly as you do, and obviously there will be new characters in the ST. Yes, things throughout the story changed along the way, and if Jade winds up in then so be it. What I was trying to say was more along the lines of putting her in at the time of the ST, especially if she is the mother of Lukes child, would be lacking because the films will have skipped their entire relationship, where with Padme, we saw the relationship with Anakin. Of course, if Luke has a child in the ST, this will have been skipped regardless of who the mother is.

    You are right in thinking I don't want her in though..... Thats becasue I'm not an EU guy. But if she is in, I hope the writting is solid and that it makes sense.
  20. TigerCraneFist Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2002
    star 4
  21. kubricklynch Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2012
    star 3
    Well, if they want to Luke to have a kid, the relationship will have to be previously established before the movies, unless she's way younger. Not too many women Luke's age can have kids.

    Although, who knows in the GFFA.
  22. Ryus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    Well life spans and how long in ones life a woman can get pregnant for humans, cant be too much longer least it contridict the "for over a thousand generations" matching the 20,000 year time line... plus Obiwan's lack of youthfulness while only being 57 in Episode IV unless they want to claim his immortality training aged him faster or something like that...
    Last edited by Ryus, Mar 30, 2013
  23. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    To get a thousand generations for a 25,000 year old Republic each generation would be 25 years before having a kid.
    I doubt anyone would remain young looking while being on a dessert planet for almost 20 years.
  24. Ryus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    Suppose theres an argument to the desert planet fact in Obiwan lack of youth at only 57, still with most people reproducing at 25 it implies not many still do at 50... thus the time frame for when human females can still reproduce is roughly the same in a galaxy far far away implying if they do want Luke to be a father it should have happened between the movies regardless of how important the event is it cant take place now barring the force itself or a miracle baby born through medical technology.

    and yeah 25,000 years my bad...
    Last edited by Ryus, Mar 30, 2013
  25. newdawn12 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2013
    star 4
    you have to call lucasfilm, and let them know what you want to see, plus have your friends call, and their friends call, and so on.