Discussion Official Sequel Trilogy / Legends / Expanded Universe discussion thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilers Allowed' started by YoureNotJonesy, Nov 2, 2012.

  1. BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 5
    Haven't heard anything about Arndt being an EU fan but the source of him being a Star Wars fan, which he is, probably comes from this (and became a game of telephone to become EU fan) where he talks about how the structure of ANH is a perfect example of plotting resoultion. Anyhoo:

    http://www.vulture.com/2012/11/star-wars-episode-vii-may-have-found-its-writer.html

    Since winning the Oscar for Sunshine, Arndt has lectured extensively on the art of storytelling at numerous writers’ retreats, like the Hawaii Writers Conference in Maui and the Austin Film Festival, always featuring a lengthy and detailed explanation of why the original Star Wars’ ending is so creatively satisfying.

    At these talks, Arndt always tells attendees that Star Wars’ enduring appeal has to do with resolving its protagonists goals’ nearly simultaneously, at the climax of the movie. In the comments section of a discussion about a Star Wars talk Arndt gave at the Austin Film Festival in 2010, one attendee of the seminar notes, "Arndt stated that if a writer could resolve the story's arcs (internal, external, philosophical) immediately after the Moment of Despair at the climax, he or she would deliver the Insanely Great Ending and put the audience in a euphoric state. The faster it could happen, the better. By [Arndt’s] reckoning, George Lucas hit those three marks at the climax of Star Wars within a space of 22 seconds."

    Indeed, in the third act of Star Wars, as Arndt explained to his young screenwriting Padawans at the 2009 Hawaii Writers Conference, its central characters' main goals all are met on pages 89 through 91 of the original Lucas script: At the crescendo of Star Wars, a spectral Obi Wan urges, “Use the Force, Luke,” and he does, thus reaching his inner goal (fighting self-doubt to become a hero). Han Solo reappears (meeting the philosophical goal of overcoming selfishness with altruism) to shoot down Darth Vader, which allows Luke to use the Force to mentally guide his shot and blow up the Death Star (outer goal andinner goals simultaneously met).
  2. EHT New Films Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Sep 13, 2007
    star 6
    I'm still convinced that the scene in Toy Story 3 where Big Baby lifts Lotso over his head and throws him down into the dumpster is a reference to the scene in ROTJ when Vader lifts Palpatine over his head and throws him down the shaft. Arndt may not have come up with it himself, and there were SW references in earlier Toy Storys too (at least the father revelation in Toy Story 2), but I still take it as a good sign.
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  3. DarthBreezy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2002
    star 6
    Considering how BB and Lotso's relationship is very much like Papa P and Vader, it's definitely an homage to that...
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  4. KED12345 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2012
    star 4
    It is - every Toy Story movie has a direct reference or plot twist that is a homage to the OT. And to boot, the guy who wrote that scene in TS3 is writing Episode VII.
    Last edited by KED12345, Apr 7, 2013
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  5. JediMara77 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2004
    star 4
    George wrote the treatments, yes. Arndt is writing the actual script. So if he wants to use something from the EU to fill in a blank, he can. George's lack of knowledge doesn't matter in that manner.
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  6. newdawn12 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2013
    star 4
  7. jedimikey Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 21, 2012
    star 2
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  8. Darth_Quintonis Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 31, 2013
    star 1
    That was a good read, very even-handed and as objective as one can be with all of the changes lately. ;)
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  9. Krueger Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2004
    star 4
    The article also raises a very interesting point. At the moment, we're hearing about all the bad stuff (the obliteration of Lucas Arts, the death of the CW series and the dramatic downsizing of Lucas Animation). However, we haven't heard what will be replacing them. They will be replaced with something. Let's also not forget the little fact that there are five(!) Star Wars films in development. So, whereas already people are lamenting the sale to Disney because of all the shifting and cancelling they've been doing, there is no reason to get out the pitchforks just yet. The article is also right in saying that, yes, in a way, Star Wars is getting the reboot treatment.
    Last edited by Krueger, Apr 8, 2013
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  10. chris hayes Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 13, 2012
    star 4
    The biggest point I took was that the Comics & Novels are thriving !
  11. fenton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 3
    We do know what is happening in regards to games. Disney is shifting away from expensive console, HD games and focusing on much cheaper mobile games. Any Star Wars game they develop will fit that model. They apparently plan on licening star wars to other game developers, which puts Disney in a safer position if a game tanks.

    Its nature of "fandom" - freak out as soon as anything changes.
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  12. fenton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 3
    Thats true. However the producer of hte movie said they don't have a series of books to use and Lucas is their source of info, the director has said they aren't using the EU. And we've been told Lucas is sitting in on their creative meetings.

    Sure, fundementally there is nothing stopping Arndt or Abrams or Kennedy from not going to Lucas and going to the EU instead, BUT from what we've been told that isn't what they are doing.
  13. Ryus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    fenton, please stop taking people out of context just to slam the EU again. JediMara77 wrote that they could use EU material to fill in the blank, yet you responded about the them not going to use a book for Episode VII. The shoe doesnt fit since no book was ever meant to be episode VII, the quote your using is very ambigious yet you're applying it very specficially and all encompusing.

    We know Lucas has borrowed from the EU before and even the EU editted the EU... we dont expect things to be anything close to the EU once the writers are done with it. However LFL has a long track record of prefering the EU stay in exsistance and adapting it when higher cannon overrights it, then editing the EU to match the newest take of higher cannon. Lucas himself ordered Dave Filoni to use the EU for inspiration for The Clone Wars and Dave Filoni is still on staff working on the next TV show, gee, a very easy speculation to make from that is the EU will be adapted for this new TV show... just like JediMara77 stated by saying if a writer working for LFL [Ardnt] wants to use something from the EU to fill in a blank, they can.

    Finially, yes, we have too been told that the EU will be used for inspiration... from Disney's CEO on about 3 seperate occasions. I've provided you with links of this many times now, yet your memory seems selective here...
    Last edited by Ryus, Apr 9, 2013
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  14. JediMara77 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2004
    star 4
    Where has JJ Abrams said they're not using the EU at all?

    The Clone Wars used EU stuff all the time. Why wouldn't the Sequel Trilogy? I don't understand.
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  15. HanJones Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2002
    star 2
    Couple things to remember here. Not having "a series of books to use" just means that they won't be adapting any existing stories for the big screen. Same thing with saying "they aren't using the EU." That is not the same thing as saying the EU doesn't exist and won't provide inspiration at least in terms of characters and the intervening history.

    Don't forget, EVERY major thing that takes place in the EU had to get clearance from Lucasfilm. They wanted to kill Luke in the novel Vector Prime, but Lucasfilm said no to that and yes to killing Chewie. Lucasfilm has created a vast archive of infomation based upon the EU novels, TV shows, games, comics, etc. Ardnt was said to be doing research in the Lucasfilm archives. I would expect to see some elements of the EU in the new films (Lucas himself took the name Coruscant from Zahn's EU novels) without being completely beholden to explaining everything that took place in the 35-40 years since ROTJ.

    A line or two of general text in the opening crawl can simply bring viewers up to speed:

    Decades have passed since the downfall of the Emperor. New heroes have risen and many have paid the ultimate price in the struggles to bring freedom and lasting peace to the galaxy.

    JAINA SOLO and BEN SKYWALKER are at the forefront of a new generation of JEDI KNIGHTS protecting the GALACTIC ALLIANCE. . . etc., etc., etc.

    New heroes have risen [Jaina, Ben, Allanah, etc.] and many have paid the ultimate price [Chewbacca, Mara Jade, Jacen, Anakin Solo, etc.] -- you can say all that without having to say all that, see?

    After that, a few lines of dialogue here and there can have Luke reference Ben's dead mother, Jaina mention her dead brothers, Han lamenting the loss of Chewie, etc. Doesn't have to be anything more than what we got from Uncle Owen about Luke's dad in A New Hope. Would a mention of the Imperial Remnant be confusing? No more so than the mention of the Clone Wars in ANH. In fact, things like that get people's imaginations going and spark interest. You just have to strike the right balance between having elements to advance the new story you are telling and relying on events outside the movies for people to understand what is going on in your new story.

    If done right, you can have your new stories and your EU, too.
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  16. fenton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 3
    It was quoted earlier in this forum, its on page 162

    And don't turn this into a language debate - I'm not talking about incredabily minor stuff like the name of a planet they never go too or a character they mention but we never see etc... I mean "important" and big things, and I'm sure you did too because I doubt Arndt is going to worry that much about those kinds of things, espically now if they don't have a final script and the director isn't working on the film yet.
    Last edited by fenton, Apr 9, 2013
  17. fenton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 3
    They haven't once said the EU would used for inspiration (remember, YOU put words in the guys mouth....), and the creative people involved have said they won't use the EU as inspiration.
  18. fenton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 3
    She said they don't have a series of books to serve as a template, not base them on, to sever as a template. The adventures of Jaina Solo, is a template.

    So what if someone as Lucasfilm approved stuff - those same people have always said that EU would never limit what would be in the movies.

    And they could have had Luke start training with Yoda off screen and had it covered in the crawl, but that would have been bad storytelling sot hey didn't.

    If done right, the EU will be stomped on because including 20 years of material that 95% of the audience doesn't know about isn't how you make a movie that appeals to that 95%. Why do yout hink Abrams re-start Star Trek continuity?
  19. Ryus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    From your point of view perhaps... [face_laugh]

    Me, personally, though when I read an articile about how Iger came to buy LFL and after the ball starts rolling he's introduced to the Holocron and how vast Star Wars has evolved past the movies with characters, planets, and timeline... then implictily states its will be this that Disney [LFL] will inspiration for Epsode VII, I take it literally. Iger being the only guy who annouced the spinoff movies too and about 5 seconds later after that statement too boot.

    Note: Inspiration has many degrees of keeping cannon, but fact is none the less that the EU will influence the writers. How much is the questio, however with only a 10 page story treatment thats a lot of writting to fill in and LFL's past trends and Iger's comment imply EU will be minned for ideas... again. Plenty of EU characters have become G-level cannon, I suspect the same will hold true here though like the prequals they could be heavily adapted... look at Grevious in the books and first TV show vs the movies and second show, he went from super badass who took on 6 Jedi at once to a weezing coward and continuity/EU survived this. It can logocally survive any changes to post Jedi book characters too based on this, your argument has no basis based on what has happened in the past and characters like Boba Fett prove that none Lucas created characters can become mega hits with fans, and even remain popular once watered down by Lucas rewriting his past to be far less of a bad ass.
    Last edited by Ryus, Apr 9, 2013
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  20. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    We can be certain that if any Solo kids appear they will be an appropriate age (teenagers or young adults) and that there will not have been any offscreen deaths, no matter how that screws with the timeline/events of EU. If Anakin should appear he'll also have a different name.
  21. HanJones Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2002
    star 2
    It doesn't have to be either / or. But hey, knock yourself out in your crusade to eradicate the EU. Just remember it will have exactly the same impact on those crusading to completely adapt the EU -- nil.
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  22. fenton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 3
    But thats the thing, he doesn't implictily state anything (at least not in anything you linked too), YOU did, but he didn't. Iger will have just about ZERO creative input into anything Star Wars, and that stuff you credit to him was written by someone else, he read it and forgot about it. And its funny you cling to your words coming out of his mouth and ignore what the creative people WORKING on Star Wars have said - you have the producer AND director saying they aren't following the EU, and they weren't reading prepared statements.

    Do you think Iger knows ANYTHING about the EU? Cares if it gets stomped on or not? Will have ANY issue with ignoring it for years then making a tv show based on a book if that will make Disney the most money? Iger is a business man, its his job to make Disney produce the best returns possible. PERIOD. And those spin-offs movies, will probably just contridict the EU further/more then the ST will.
    Last edited by fenton, Apr 9, 2013
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  23. DarthBreezy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2002
    star 6
    De-Nial will be one of the new planets in the ST....
  24. A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Riot Deterrent

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Aug 19, 2003
    star 7
    They can base the environment off of this thread.
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  25. Ryus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    We know Iger was given access to the Holocron and had it all explained to him, this from his own mouth. Next off we all know he's required to be cagy, so no he didnt directly say anything, just as Kennedy never implicitly said the EU as a whole was gone vs what she actually said that they're not using a book as a template (see the difference there, no I suppose you dont). Though Iger did implictily say it represented infinite opportunities and inspiration for their writers to draw inspiration from... which it tantamount to saying the EU is at least being studied and with that much content its one hell of a long shot for nothing from the EU to ever appear. This being exactly what happened with TCW tv show, aka history is repeating itself and more than enough EU characters got adapted into the show, such as Asajj Ventress.

    Its an odds game and the odds favor some crossover since statistically LFL would inversely limit their creativity trying to avoid repeating anything that happened in the EU and if they repeat something by chance, why not include it as it was called in the EU? Plus with only a year to preproduce 5-6 known movies and a new TV the odds of not looking to the EU for inspiration is pretty out there. The EU survived the PT, it survived the CW shows, and it can easily survive the ST too.
    Last edited by Ryus, Apr 9, 2013
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