Discussion Official Sequel Trilogy / Legends / Expanded Universe discussion thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII - Spoilers Allowed' started by YoureNotJonesy, Nov 2, 2012.

  1. Darth Claire Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2012
    star 4
    My guess for the EU is that they might make some references to it *like have Luke mention defeating a character in the EU or a cute little nod* for fan service but I think thats what it will end up being.... fan service. In fact fan service might be a MAJOR player in this film *whether it be from the EU or past films*. IDK....I just feel like one of the only reasons the EU might be involved is to satisfy fans not cause its supposed to happen. Just my opinion please dont kill me. I'm too young to die
    Last edited by Darth Claire, Apr 18, 2013
  2. Toonimator Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2006
    star 3
    I'm hoping for some character-names (ie Jaina Solo, Ben Skywalker) even if the characters themselves don't line up with the EU versions (ie Ben isn't half Jaina's age, they didn't go thru the same events their book counterparts did, etc). If Luke has/had a wife, even if she's never seen or isn't a Jedi, the name "Mara" would be a nice nod to the EU. Maybe some locations, too... I'd love to see Korriban, or hear it referenced--while I'm not exactly hoping for a major Sith threat, Korriban could also be useful as a planet-sized "Dagobah cave"-test for Luke's Jedi students.

    And a line somewhere in VII, ideally, that goes something like "There hasn't been a major Imperial threat since Grand Admiral Thrawn's failed campaign over twenty years ago!" (the line would be in response to some info suggesting a new threat might be a relic of the Empire, maybe)
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  3. MillionthVoice Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2013
    star 1
    We've had the writers and producer hinting they won't use the EU and a probably rather detached money man hinting that they can use it. So really I think it weighs quite clearly in one direction. I would be way more surprised if the movies were based on EU plot & characters than if they weren't honestly.
  4. Ryus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    No we had writers and producers hinting they're not adapting a novel for ep VII (and he'd (not they) would 'prefer' the spin offs to be new stories), not that they're not going use the EU. There is a difference. We also have an upcoming TV show from a guy who did nothing but adapt EU into new stories, who's yet to hint anything beyond 'new animated show'.

    What the EUs fate is, is still very unclear. Though past trends do imply greatly edited but it will survive in part.
    Last edited by Ryus, Apr 19, 2013
  5. DarthBreezy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2002
    star 6
    Ryus - you seem to be one of the only, last, hard-core hold-outs for an relatively unchanged movie verse adherence to the EU. While I have a grudging, if sometimes puzzled respect for your dedication, what will you do if they DO throw it ALL out? This isn't meant to be a wind up, but a genuine question.
  6. Ryus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    What would I do if they dumped it all... watch it anyways :p

    Also what do you mean Im one of the 'last, hard core hold outs for a relativly unchanged movie verse'? Ive stated tons of times I want it [highly] adapted, mostly involving characters adapted in and a few crossover plot ideas [face_laugh]. I have a middle ground opinion not an extreme preserve the EU at all costs belief (though I admit to feeling this way about a few EU characters and minor plots) here but just take offense to those jumping the gun wanting the EU expunged and then seek facts to support this. I personally want about 2/3rds of the EU destroyed. Tons here are more 'preserve' the continuity supporters than I. I just got yelled at by a mod for focusing on stuff I want cut a while back... so Ive been sticking with whats better in the EU. Forgive me if confusion has come about due to this...

    As to how I'd react if its all cut, depends on what replaces it. Suspect I'll react the same way when another series evolves a new continuity... prefer some aspects of both continuities. [face_laugh]

    Honestly I just grow tired of EU bashers hyjacking the thread, rather than use it to constructivly say how it could be adapted into the new cannon. I view opinions like that as non-constructive since due to the nature of this thread they cant post new ideas here only comment on the EU which limits them to bashing and derailing attempts to talk how the EU could be adapted. New story comments/ideas should imho be saved for the ep VII plot ideas thread and this thread reserved for adapation/honoring the EU in small way posts (least till we actually learn some new facts about the EUs fate). Sorry but its just hiw I feel. I see no need to whip out the EU but I also see no need to keep it all either, for example minus Ben and Allana I'd be fine with all stories NJO and later getting cut (Id love the legacy comics to become a new universe to test ideas though) but this doesnt mean Im going to campain for it either though. Point is Im fine with lots of cuts and keeping name only characters, I see it like super heroes crossing over into a new universe something that 'often' doesnt bother me in the slightest since sometimes these 'name only' characters are a thousand times better... look at Starbuck from BSG or the Joker in the Dark Knight. An example, I'd love to see Mara Jade with a darker past and a harder journey to the lightside than what Zahn did with her past.
    Last edited by Ryus, Apr 19, 2013
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  7. DarthBreezy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2002
    star 6
    I get your point, but to be fair, for many years the EU was a sacred cow - beating on the EU in any way shape or form was practically verboten - hell, the actors could be beaten down without rancor, but whoa be to the person who didn't like the EU, and actually admitted it. Granted, (again, a long time ago) many of the EU authors had a very real presence here on TF.N (their ID's were confirmed by the PTB, and they were given VIP status) so that might have had an effect, but with this big old can of worms, and a bit of an attitude shift,, a LOT of people are finally feeling like they CAN finally 'let loose', IE, I REALLY HATE MARA JADE. Ten years ago, typing that would have got me virtually lynched... even now, putting it to keyboard makes me a little [face_nail_biting]
  8. TigerCraneFist Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2002
    star 4
    [IMG]
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  9. Ryus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    Yeah... like people are about to flip out on the Marvel movies for adapting something else or The Star Trek reboot and Into Darkness about to redo Kahn... oh wait, that didnt happen (at least to the levels you describe)

    As to hating Mara Jade, I have a good friend who was very vocal about the same thing fir ages and never got beat up over it. We just disagreed there... I have no problem with your opinion and never have. Cant speak for others but I at least have been grown up about people will disagree with me about liking/disliking a character (beyond teasing them, I can be childish in that way :p, but know I always mean it lightheartedly).

    Look I was a big BSG fan and recall people freaking out that Starbuck would be a girl and not a man... I watched them all change opinions on the matter and wonder how they ever liked the original afterwards. As long as we get a quality written replacement, even if 'name only' character fans these days will support it... I've seen it happen. Sorry but I feel you have an assumption you need to let go of, the best case scenario we could get if the EU gets dumped but characters cross over is an amazing written, acted and directed 'name only' character like Starbuck. Since this character would be new yet not, people would instantly understand that characters roll but not know how that characters path would end. Even if they go middle ground a character like Asajj Ventress who got very adapted her new version was a great character too and popular... your crying over milk that hasnt even spilt yet... an adapted character or name only can so go either way, brilliant success or flop but we wont know or be able to call it till we see it.

    EDIT...Said it before, and I'll repeat it briefly here, I'd love a seperate thread about ways the EU could be adapted into EP VII or mearly honored by it too keep the EU bashers out and the continuity people to minimze there calls to war... in short a change is sbout to happen so lets embrace it and think of ways it draw on the EU fir inspiration and honor it, even if it bulldozes most of the EU. Like Corrin Horn can force push but loses his double phase lightsaber, or Kyle Katarn losses his whole 'Valley of the Jedi' past but keeps his being self trained back story, personality, and having almost fallen to the dark side in the past. Or as stated Mara Jade dd far worse things in her past and/or was more mind controlled by the Emperor but never marries Luke though they do have kid(s) which Lucas has approved of for other Jedi's backstories.
    Last edited by Ryus, Apr 19, 2013
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  10. Robimus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2007
    star 5
    Must have been between 2002 - 2007, I guess. Since I've been here people have had no problem letting their feelings be heard about the EU.

    Now that we are The Disney Council Forums things have changed.
  11. Ryus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    So what exactly do you want DarthBreezy? As to Luke's future... what if Lucas wanted him to have a kid? Who should the mother be, what should she be like, and how do you escape the inevitable comparisons to Mara Jade?

    What if it is Mara Jade? How would you adapt her so you could at least stand her presence? Do you feel EU fans could get behind these changes if well written, directed, and acted? be it in ep VII, a spin off , or a new show...

    I get it, you dont like her... and yes this is an opportunity. I too view this as a chance to 'fix' stuff, though some people varry on how much fixing is needed. However, no matter what, LFL is in an impossible situation... anything new will get comparied to the old, especially if a slap in the face to the EU. Also anything adapted will have people comparing the versions and any copying of the EU will have people like you and I facepalming over wasting this opportunity to get rid of the bad. It will happen no matter what... any way they turn, they lose. The EU isnt as small as people claim either and people will always discover the old stories, its not like the EU will disappear.

    After all even if only 5 million people in total read the EU and only 2 million lets say dislike how theses new movies lets say decannon the EU and what they replace it with, fact is thats still at least a million raging fans posting on message boards how the ST wasted opportunites... the post rotj EU was always more popular than the clone wars era, and we all know most of us are still upset with Boba's new past story in the prequals. Fact is in one sense the ST cant ignore the EU or disrespect it... there's 22 years of it. If anything that is one lesson LFL and Disney both learned, so clearly either they're going to choose to bite the bullet or adapt what they can and choose to.

    So my question is, If Lucas wrote Luke as a father what would you likehis relationship with his lover/wife to be, do you think EU fans would accept this, do yo think LFL cares how EU fans would react and do you think they should, did Lucas force himself in a corner by allowing to EU to be, and finally if your forced to see Mara on the big screen how would you want her adapted?

    Even if Luke remains single and has no kids people will still point at Mara saying I hate the no marriage bs give me something like that *points at Luke x Mara*
    Last edited by Ryus, Apr 19, 2013
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  12. DarthBreezy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2002
    star 6

    Just trimmed the quote for personal relevance -

    What I ULTIMATELY want is a good, fun Star Wars adventure - I won't care about the comparisons to Mara Jade IF she's ultimately in the movies, depending on if she's the SW equivalent of a RINO (Republican In Name Only - so a MJino, - Wait, that sounds really bad!) but to be brutally honest, even her NAME 'Jar-jars' my little mind...All the other bits are just what not, as long as the STORY is good.

    As for the second part - *laughs* I've written MY IDEAL 'Luke's lover/mother of his children' for over 7 years (and I understand how 'wait, how the hell did that happen?' thing that happens with 'pro authors' - she was NEVER intended for the role, indeed, her very existence was a bit of a case of characters 'running away and doing their own thing' but I digress...) but what I want/write will probably be different.

    If you REALLY want to see 'my Mrs. Skywalker', I'll pm you a link to one of my short stories that gives a pretty good overview of her (and the world as I see it) but I won't clutter up this thread with my vanity. :p
  13. kubricklynch Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2012
    star 3
    It's funny, there were a bunch of people in this thread who claimed Disney would NEVER throw out the EU. They seem to have disappeared.
  14. Ryus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    I'll read your 'vanity' no problem ;), though no offence but I noticed you avoided answering if you believe it will sell to the masses, how about to the EU fans, and If you where a writter at LFL do you think you could sell your dream 'Mrs. Skywalker' without an EU fan rebellion... Not blaming you, the EU has created a no win situation here... after all so there is no correct answer.

    As to Mara Jade... Zahn stated Mara (to him) was designed to have a long term 'potential' romance with Luke. The Last few pages of The Last Command really hinted at that too. Then KJA had to run wild with her... and Zahn 'fixed' her back on path, even taking pot shots at KJA's hack writing in many places through out the book.
  15. Son of a Bith Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2013
    star 4
    Disney got to them.
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  16. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    My dream wife for Luke is a badass, cynical, not force sensitive and pragmatic no-nonsense doctor but at the same time she is courageous and cared deeply for those she loves (even if she can be quite acerbic at times). I guess she shares some traits with MJ but not the weaknesses (over the top abilities, viewed as "perfect" by way too many other characters, never really making amends for the many people she killed). So if MJ is written a bit more like sweet Gina Skywalker, I could get behind her.
    DarthBreezy likes this.
  17. Circular Logic SWTV Interview Host

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2013
    star 4
    ZOMG Disney is in ur continuityz retconning ur EUz!

    But in all due honesty, I'm certain Disney and LFL plan on making completely new stories for the ST and the spinoffs, stories we haven't seen before. They could incorporate elements of the greater EU into the films, as a nod to fans of the Expanded Universe, but I can't see them faithfully adapting any stories (like Boba Fett's adventures post-Sarlaac) to the letter. Even as EU fans, would you not prefer a new narrative where you don't know the outcome until you've seen the movie?

    Furthermore, movie adaptations of novels and comics tend to almost always be inferior to the source material. I'd rather some new story take place that references the EU but does not revolve around one that has already been told. This applies equally to the spinoffs as it does the ST.
  18. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    It was already stated in some interview that the ST is based on an original story. It will not be an adaptation.
  19. Toonimator Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2006
    star 3
    Not being an adaptation is fine... given the timeline, it's POSSIBLE they COULD do an original story set after Fate of the Jedi (or merely after Legacy of the Force, thus only overwriting FOTJ and Crucible) and somehow remain faithful to the EU with very little of the baggage. Some brief exposition could establish that the Republic's now a Galactic Alliance, Luke's been training Jedi for 30 years, the Imperial Remnant's quite a bit different & less malevolent than the Empire of old but still bears a lot of the same 'look', etc, many threats were faced over the years, Chewie died. Then you've got Jaina, Ben, Allana--all explained quickly without much 'backstory' beyond heritage. A few lines could suffice to say that Allana's father, Jaina's twin, fell to the dark side but didn't really realize how wrong he was until the very end, and was responsible for Luke's wife's death. Anakin Solo

    And then the plot of the films would just be set in that world, but with an all-new conflict. The only major baggage would be Allana's royal status and the EU's depiction of Hapes--but for a decent chunk of the trilogy, they could avoid that if Allana's still too young to even think of ascending the throne (especially if her mother's still alive thru it all).

    Not that they WILL do that--it's just a possibility, satisfying (most) EU fans while presenting something new to everyone else, too.

    Original story doesn't have to mean all original characters & concepts for the trappings of the story... they could have an original story that still features a daughter of Han & Leia named Jaina, a son of Luke named Ben--they don't have to turn Jaina into "Zel Solo", Ben into...well, nobody.

    And--for those who dislike Mara Jade--if Luke DID have a wife, still alive, Jedi or not, they could just call her "Mara Skywalker" and have most of the character resemblance end there. Making her a beautiful redhead named "MJ"--where's Spider-Man? Even her full name's only two letters off from "Mary Jane". But the "Jade" part in particular is just another cliche on top of the 'fiery redhead woman' one, with her having green eyes & a green surname.

    I'd like the Mara name to remain... I also like Pevra's idea of Luke's ideal wife, who's kinda Mara-ish in attitude but without the Jedi stuff and Emperor's Hand baggage. If she's "Mara In Name Only", that's fine by me... but I'll happily accept most anyone for Luke's spouse provided it keeps Luke from being a childless hermit in the ST, modeling his life on Obi-Wan or Yoda's OT status rather than forging a new order without all the dogmatic rules that helped lead to the downfall of the Jedi in the first place. I want him to pass on what he learns to his kid(s).
  20. Vthuil Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2013
    star 4
    To be honest, we already have the entire Literature forum for non-critical discussions on how the EU will weather the ST.

    And sure, people have been able to criticize it before now, but always in a resigned way: they could personally disregard it or parts of it, but it wasn't actually going away. Now that that's actually on the table, I think there's a lot more freedom to actually hope for it. I personally don't want the entire EU thrown out - although certainly the post-ROTJ EU has the least to lose - but I can sympathize with those that do, and I don't really like the way people want to exclude them from the thread.

    Of course, I also don't think 180 pages of "THE EU SUX NO IT DOESNT" is worth anyone's time, which is why I tried to shift the conversation earlier.
  21. DarthBreezy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2002
    star 6
    My "Mrs Skywalker" is a lot like that (well, she IS a Force sensitive, and can hold a lightsaber the right way up, but is no where NEAR as powerful as Luke of any of the other 'old school Jedi') and is Corellian after all....

    THIS....
    Last edited by DarthBreezy, Apr 19, 2013
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  22. Ryus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    Lets be fair here... most red heads (though Mara has red-gold hair) have light colored eyes and a big portion of those have green eyes. So her having green eyes too must be totally crazy... :p;)

    I agree though her name is very close to MJ's from siderman though., at least Mara isnt helpless like MJ... Though most of us know it was by chance due to the meaning of names Mara and Jade matching her character to a fault.

    If it wasnt for the PT making weak jedi such Star Trek red shirts I'd have no problem with Mara being far weaker. Though I think she, by being strong with the force, also helps alievate a big problem with both trilogies having weaker female roles. Double edged sword problem there... As to her being a Corellian... dont know, Wedge and Han are worlds apart in personality, so dont yet know what you're getting at there.
    Last edited by Ryus, Apr 19, 2013
  23. Toonimator Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2006
    star 3
    I think an ST Mara being strong in the Force would be fine... Council-worthy, in PT terms (tho I'm not sure that says much, given how many Council members went out like punks in EpIII), but maybe not up to Luke or Leia's potential levels as children of the "Chosen One".
  24. jedimikey Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 21, 2012
    star 2
    Hey, look at Kit Fisto in RotS...they made a cool jedi look like a chump. Lasted what, three seconds against Palpatine? That entire scene was a total let-down for me, actually. Even Mace (who I never liked anyway) looked like a fool standing there talking to Anakin, when he should've just ran Palpy through. So I have to agree with Ryus on that one. The PT did make most of the rank-and-file Jedi look weak, but I suppose that could've been done on purpose to make Jedi like Yoda, Obi-wan, and Anakin appear exceptional...but whatever, the PT is fairly decent overall...

    As for Breezy's dislike of Mara, I fully understand. ;) Personally, I didn't mind Mara at all, and the EU is full of characters like her, so her inclusion in said EU is inconsequential as far as I'm concerned. She looked normal next to Luke, Corran, Kyp, Kyle, etc.
  25. Vthuil Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2013
    star 4
    On the other hand, from the perspective of the average moviegoer, the only reason that they would even know who "Kit Fisto" was would be if they paid attention to the credits.

    In fact, that's one thing that always irritated me about the EU: the way how any character in the films is inevitably made out to be the best or among the best at what they do. Since their role in the films is to serve as glorified extras, situations like the above tend to happen a lot, and it's kind of silly. The only exceptions are those characters who made some kind of mistake - who instead inevitably become the worst at what they do.
    Last edited by Vthuil, Apr 20, 2013