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Discussion Official Sequel Trilogy / Legends / Expanded Universe discussion thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens' started by YoureNotJonesy, Nov 2, 2012.

  1. Ryus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    Yes, and No... simply put yes due to the Disney purchase of LFL even non-movie G-level cannon could be made non-cannon. However, no since Disney seems to be focusing on post RotJ era, so unless Episode VII goes out of its way to say Starkiller and those events never happened then it will likely be a decade or more till Disney gets around to the Dark Times era again (beyond maybe a Solo or Fett story, doubt we'll get a Obi-wan story set here) and either confiming it being cannon or retconning it. So for our purposes, for the time being anyways, this is still cannon and this debate is moot beyond saying Disney could retcon it... one day, just like one day they may reboot the franchise (not saying they should, just that it could, stress the could, happen).
    Last edited by Ryus, Apr 22, 2013
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  2. Darth_Pevra Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 6
    You're correct, of course. But just because Rahm Kota survived the Purge in the EU doesn't mean we're going to see Jedi survivors in the ST.

    Aside from the reasons I already mentioned there's also a more personal reason why I'd dislike the the reappearance of OJO members in the ST. Imo the old Jedi failed spectacularly and their teachings are faulty. I'd like to see Luke rebuild the order how he thinks it should work without being influenced by OJO Jedi.
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  3. Son of a Bith Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2013
    star 4
    I agree!

    Although it might be interesting to see an OJO master react negatively to Luke's NJO philosophy.
    Last edited by Son of a Bith, Apr 22, 2013
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  4. Darth_Pevra Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 6
    Good point. That makes an interesting reason why including one survivor could be interesting.

    But even more interesting could be some Jacen-like character researching into the old ways by Holocrone, becoming enamored with it and then challenge Luke Skywalker about his beliefs. This character could even be the protagonist...
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  5. Ryus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    I want Allana though :p... Jacen can do this after she's born instead of going Vader rehash and killing Mara in a prophecy that now makes no sense. ;)

    but agree, someone of the new order disagreeing with it and going old school jedi could be interesting... if Jacen I wonder how Han will react to his son swearing off girlfriends [face_laugh]
    Last edited by Ryus, Apr 22, 2013
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  6. Darth_Pevra Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 6
    It can be a female Jacen too, no problems with that. ;) I just expect a more introvert and brooding and cerebral type of person to challenge Luke with philosophical questions.

    Anyways, I think real conflict between the protagonists spices things up considerably. So far we had some in all of the movies and it is one tradition that should be kept.
  7. Ryus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    Why did Danni Quee come to my mind as soon as you said female Jacen? [face_laugh] In anycase, she left to order too peacefully... think this character would have to be a cross between her, Jacen and Kyp staying with the order to create internal problems/debates that cant be ignored by the character just going away.

    However Im weary of how this could be done in a two hour movie while also introducing a new cast, era and new villains without some cheesy plot line of how this one character will clearly mess things up first chance they get because of there out dated beliefs... like Kenth Hamner did. His plot line in FotJ was horrible writing.
    Last edited by Ryus, Apr 22, 2013
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  8. fenton Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 4
    They weren't faulty. If Anakin hadn't thought he deserved special rules and treatment they wouldn't have been whiped out the way they were. Teachings and rules that would have kept the order going and prevented someone falling to the darkside IF they had been followed.......doesn't seem faulty to me.

    ANd who is to say Lukes Jedi would be different?
  9. fenton Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 4
    What "fact", this is a made up world. Abrams and co. can make up whatever they want in Episode VII. So far to date, the "Facts" we are given is that Obi-wan and Yoda re the only Jedi left by the time of ANH< and Luke is the only one left by RotJ. If you want to talk about "facts", thats what we given in the movies.

    Force Unleashed shows some Jedi surviving Order 66 - and then being killed. So by the time ANH starts up, its just Obi-wan and Yoda.
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  10. Darth_Pevra Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 6
    The OJO also couldn't figure out Palps was a bad guy or that maybe relying on mystery clones is not such a great idea.

    Good thing they have three movies. This "break" could easily happen in Episode VIII (and only be hinted at in VII), after something bad has happened with the order/a Jedi that would lead to asking questions about the current direction.
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  11. Ryus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    Uh, Fenton this is the EU thread... to us EU fans Luke's Jedi are very different from the old jedi order and we want it to remain that way (and so too do the countless people who whinned about how the PT where characterized, even if they dont realize that the EU exsists their views are closer to it than the PT). To us there was no need for destiny to have Vader kill the Jedi due to some propchecy willed by the force itself unless there teaching had gotten corrupted or off course along the way, thus destiny acted in the only way it could reform a nearly invincible order that only listened to itself and what it percieved as the forces.

    Pevra is arguing what he'd like to see, not what anyone else said... I dont see why he should answer that last bit since it is clearly something that is just there to derail the topic of what he'd like to see.
  12. Darth_Pevra Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 6
  13. Ryus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    Point taken... um... idea have the followers of this desenter jedi split from the order and go do there thing but get mostly whipped out and Luke's Jedi take heavy losses too due to the split but win the day and convince any surviving desenting Jedi who survived that they where wrong but accept them back into the order after learning a painful lesson the hard way.
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  14. Ryus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    lolz... meant he as in the generic Im too polite to peak manner [face_whistling]
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  15. fenton Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 4
    Yes, every single one.

    Its a not question of logistics or logic or what is realistic. Its a STORY point. If you put more Jedi running around at the time it takes away from Lukes story, he isn't "their last hope" anymore.
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  16. DarthBreezy Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2002
    star 6

    You can't be - don't you know that there are no (other) wimmonz on teh web? ;) (We) just don't exist...
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  17. Ryus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    Really? Even if the filler Jedi survived they're so weak vs Vader and the Emperor that they offered no real hope... so the title of ep IV would be uneffected. :p

    Even Yoda couldnt defeat him...

    I get that it was a story point, but it was always a very vague one with many ways to interruprt it, especially after RotS left open the possibility others could have survived, remember the cannon law that its the latest reitteration that matters most. We'll just have to wait to see how Ep VII handles it.

    Dont get me wrong I agree that any surviving Jedi does cheapen what Yoda said, to some degree anyways. However this plot point can easily be explained away at the same time.
  18. Placeholder Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4
    I like to think that the remaining Jedi were systematically hunted down in the years following order 66, and that by the time the events of the OT occured they are all dead, save for the ones we see in the OT.

    Vader hunting down Ashoka is interesting to think about
    Last edited by Captain Tom Coughlin, Apr 22, 2013
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  19. Ryus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    Wouldnt go that far, in this case I think it stems from us needing Darth to become a more unisex term... even many dark side females in the EU dont get the title Darth. Even with the Baneites I can only think of two females out of over 30 of them... and one wasnt very human looking and the other was only female in the EU, not nessesarily in Lucas's mind when he named the Bane's apprentice Zannah.
    Last edited by Ryus, Apr 22, 2013
  20. Darth_Pevra Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 6
    It's even worse with the other sith title, Lord. I wonder if in the ST we will get the first Lady something.
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  21. Son of a Bith Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2013
    star 4
    I love this idea too. You could even have both - where one of Luke's new apprentices (or perhaps his only apprentice - who knows how much progress he's actually made) is recruited by an OJO master.

    Regardless of what actually happens, I sincerely share your hope that Luke modifies the Jedi philosophy.
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  22. Ryus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    Please... want female Sith Lady.

    Random thought: Maybe we could have Charlize Theron for a Sith Lord Lady, that girl can act amazing as a villain... plus she usually goes for roles with interesting back stories explaining their fall. And no, Im not calling for her to be in a skimpy outfit... I want acting and characterization to be top priority.
    Last edited by Ryus, Apr 22, 2013
  23. fenton Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 4
    I hope not.

    I want Star Wars to get back to being an adventure film. I don't want to see characters discussing the differences between old Jedi and new Jedi etc... Good guys, Bad guys. Thats all. Hopefully they follow the example of the OT and not the PT.
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  24. Darth_Pevra Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 6
    Even the OT involved a philosophical conflict between Yoda/Obi-Wan and Luke on the other side about Darth Vader and the possibility of redeeming him. No need for complicated discussions.

    Character A: Jedi should exclusively focus on the will of the force
    Character B (probably Luke): Jedi should remain rooted in the real world

    Easy to understand positions that could go a long way in showing character differences.
    Last edited by Darth_Pevra, Apr 22, 2013
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  25. Son of a Bith Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2013
    star 4
    @fenton I hear ya ... but I think one of the lessons of the saga as a whole is that it's not always as simple as a good guy vs bad guy situation.
    Last edited by Son of a Bith, Apr 22, 2013
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