Discussion Official Sequel Trilogy / Legends / Expanded Universe discussion thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilers Allowed' started by YoureNotJonesy, Nov 2, 2012.

  1. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    I hope for a bit more than Vader simply being in the role of employer or being pwnd and humiliated by whatever Protagonist they chose for a spinoff.
    Imo Vader deserves better but that is subjective of course.
  2. newdawn12 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2013
    star 4
    we'll see what happens, depends on if the writers refer to the holocron, or not.
    if they talk to Leeland Chee or Pablo Hidalgo.
  3. jedimikey Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 21, 2012
    star 2
    They already have. Pablo said as much, did he not?

    But what that means is anyones guess.

    Just finished reading that "Open Letter" pudu (been at work all day).

    Wow. Just...wow. Somebody obviously really hates the EU, unusually so. :(

    Well, enough of that ballyhoo. Has there been official news on a Vader spinoff? That would be pretty cool, as long as he's a bada$$, slaying Jedi and taking names, of course. :D It'd be great to see what he goes through right after RotS...I'd actually be more interested in that than a Fett film (but still into the Fett, of course) I am really intrigued by the idea of crime and villany dramas set in the SW universe. Dark and serious type of stuff.
    Darth_Pevra likes this.
  4. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Considering they ruined Vader's character in TFU 1 and 2 and with what happened in ROTS I don't think that that will happen.
  5. Dark Lady Mara Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 1999
    star 7
  6. Robimus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2007
    star 5
    Keep in mind the person who said this was known for twisting the truth, if not flat out lying about things that didn't serve his own purposes. If I'm to take everything every character in Star Wars says at face value, without giving it independent thought or considering the character's motivation for making the comment, I think the story would change greatly for me.

    But then I have a rather unpopular opinion about the Jedi Order, Obi-Wan Kenobi and its little green leader.
  7. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    You have a case for Obi-Wan, but when is Yoda lying?
    fishtailsam likes this.
  8. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    I admit I don't know TFU1 and 2 much.
    I know that Vader gets his ass kicked by Starkiller and that shouldn't happen, but is the actual characterization of him off too?
  9. jedimikey Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 21, 2012
    star 2
    I've never had a problem with TFU, personally. Defeating Vader and Palpatine in the game wasn't easy, and they still come out on top at the end. Vaders characterization was fine, too.

    As for Vader in RotS, my only problem with that is the cheesy scream "Nooooooo!" at tthe end. LOL! But no big deal, really. I suppose GL did that to make him appear pitiful and heartbroken, but it could've been done better, IMO.
    Vthuil likes this.
  10. DanielUK Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 4
    This is Disney. I honestly cannot see them sanctioning a spin-off surrounding a protagonist, who kills everyone and everything at will. We know the story of Vader and Anakin; anything else will be fan boy service.
  11. DanielUK Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 4
    He wasn't "ruined"; George Lucas in the RoTS behind the scenes admits the OT made Vader appear unintentionally very dark and evil. That wasn't his original plan; as the audience, we're meant to feel sorry for Vader and take pity on his character.
  12. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    It is easy enough to pit him against an even worse foe (maybe a galactic terrorist?). Vader can easily play a role similar to Judge Dredd or Rambo, someone who will simply do anything to fulfill his mission, no matter what.

    Unfortunately Disney will probably shy away from giving us that because of lack of kid-friendlyness.

    Typical example of George Lucas lying to his audience. Initially Vader was the murderer of Anakin Skywalker and a sort-of General of the evil empire. Evil as evil can be.
    As far as I know it was also not Lucas who came up with the twist in Empire, so Vader remained evil in that too.
    Only in ROTJ was he portrayed as pitiful and wavering.

    But of course, now with the PT Lucas wants to backtrack himself and tells us Vader was pathetic an pitiful all along, which, ironically, I find pitiful.
    Last edited by Darth_Pevra, Apr 24, 2013
    dewback_rancher and fishtailsam like this.
  13. fenton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 3
    When does Yoda lie?

    And as I said, its not an issue of logic, its an issue of story. There are no more Jedi which means Luke HAS to do it, there isn't anyone else.
    Darth_Pevra likes this.
  14. Darth Valkyrus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 12, 2013
    star 4
    This is the guy who failed to spot a Sith lord in the most obvious place in the galaxy for a Sith lord to be. Over the course of at least a decade, no less.

    A ten year old could have deduced that Chancellor Palpatine was probably Darth Sidious, and this just by canny observation, nothing to do with the force. Yet nobody in the entire Jedi order, with the possible exception of Obi-Wan, suspected a thing.

    It makes me wonder if the council were so trusting of Yoda's judgement that they went along with whatever he said, and Yoda in turn was so focused on trying to see things through the Force, meditating on the Force, Force insight this, Force perception that, etc. etc. that he was blind to the "ordinary" clues right in front of him that required no Force anything to perceive..

    It comes back to Yoda's repeatedly being dead wrong about things, including things that he stated as fact.

    You may think that "exactly how did Yoda know that Luke was the last Jedi?" is an irrelevant question that for the sake of story ought not to be asked, but I totally disagree. Yoda was wrong about many things before, if he can be wrong about many other things he can be wrong about Luke being the last Jedi too (and per the EU, he was wrong about it). It doesn't radically alter the thrust or meaning of the SW tale.
    Robimus likes this.
  15. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    Idiot PT Yoda didn't exist in 1980 and the fact that he was depicted as an idiot in later movies doesn't mean we should assume he was an idiot in the OT as well. You might as well call OT Vader whiny too because Anakin was a whiner in the PT. Continuity doesn't work backwards.

    In universe I explain the character differences to myself with Yoda simply meditating between the trilogies and becoming much wiser in the process.

    And by the way, nothing of this changes that in the OT he played the role of Mr. Exposition.
    Last edited by Darth_Pevra, Apr 24, 2013
  16. Ryus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    I think the point was Yoda proved he wasn't infallible and wasn't omniscient. He could be wrong or he could have meant something more figurative than literal.

    While I disagree with being done, RotS did leave it possible that some Jedi could have survived regardless of what Yoda said in RotJ. Just saying...
    Last edited by Ryus, Apr 24, 2013
  17. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    This logic is all irrelevant, because as fenton put it, Luke being the last of his kind is an important plot-point. Yodas line was put there to tell us how dire the circumstances really are. It was life and death stakes for the entire Jedi order.
  18. fenton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 3
    Kinda like how the super powerful and smart Sith lord who tricked Yoda and the entire Jedi order missed that Anakin and Padme had children and never bothered to send anyone to check on Anakins old family OR questioned why Bail suddenly had a daughter?

    What a maroon.
  19. Darth Valkyrus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 12, 2013
    star 4
    I kinda wonder sometimes how Vader never sensed Obi-Wan's relatively close presence when the Devastator was in low Tatooine orbit early on in ANH. It must have made multiple passes over the general area of his shack in the dune sea, coming within 200 - 300 miles.
    Last edited by Darth Valkyrus, Apr 24, 2013
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  20. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 7
    He's right outside the Falcon when he senses Ben- the ability to sense Force-users might not be all that long-ranged.
  21. Darth Valkyrus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 12, 2013
    star 4
    He sensed Luke pretty much as soon as the Tydirium exited hyperspace at Endor, and while it was still dozens of miles away from the city-sized Executor. It did eventually fly very close past Executor's bridge tower, bringing Luke within a few hundred feet of Vader, but he had already sensed him long before that.
    Ryus likes this.
  22. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 7
    Luke's kind of special, as per ESB:

    "There is a great disturbance in the Force ... we have a new enemy ... Luke Skywalker."
  23. fishtailsam Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2003
    star 4
    [face_laugh]
    Thats why he's in a big black evil suit, chokes people to death for no reason, tortures political prisoners; all in about 5 min of screen time???

    You have to keep in mind that George has a strange need to have everyone believe he has had this all mapped out from the beginning. I wouldn't take everything George says at face value.
    Watch the original theatrical trailers for Star Wars, and tell me the love story wasn't set up to be between Luke and Liea.

    George makes it up as he goes, and changes stuff to suit whats going on right now; and that's fine. I just wish he would admit it, and stop lying to fans.
  24. Ryus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    Lolz, you're arging should and I'm arging could... though we agree on the should (in this case that there shouldnt be any other surviving jedi)

    First off I agree Luke should be the last, but playing devils advocate 'in what way was Luke the last of his kind [Jedi]?'

    Was he the last trained force user beyond Vader and the Emperor, was he the last Jedi standing against the oppresion of the Empire, was he the last following the lightside of the force, was he the last fully trained Jedi, was he the last activly following the tennants of the Jedi code, etc...

    Read "Last of the Mohicans" in it Chingachgook is the last Mohican by books end but the white boy (now a man) he raised Hawkeye survived too and in some senses he is a Mohican, whie in other ways he clearly isnt and can never be one. There are acceptable literary ways around Luke being the last Jedi that doesnt really take any meaning away from his struggle. I personally dont support them being used and hope Disney doesnt bring up surviving Jedi popping up... but it could happen and as long as its handled well wouldnt be a major travisty. I like the idea more of some of them having kids after order 66 and those kids surviving but not the jedi parent (Like Kyle Katarn or Corrin Horn).
    Last edited by Ryus, Apr 24, 2013
  25. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    Being the last of your kind period are much more dire circumstances than "being the last one who fights back" or "being the last active Jedi".

    Because if Luke dies in the former case, that is the end of the order, period. In the latter case someone else could easily
    revive the order as soon as the Empire is defeated. No Luke needed.

    Therefore, one story is more "epic" and dramatic than the other because if Luke fails then all hope is lost for the Jedi (at least after Yoda died).
    Last edited by Darth_Pevra, Apr 24, 2013