Discussion Official Sequel Trilogy / Legends / Expanded Universe discussion thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII - Spoilers Allowed' started by YoureNotJonesy, Nov 2, 2012.

  1. JackG Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2011
    star 4
    Why would people bother with EU 2.0 after they spent time and money on EU 1.0; I sure can't be bothered to invest again.
    krtmd and Force Smuggler like this.
  2. Kran Starborn Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 2013
    star 4
    Does it matter either way his head would explode.
  3. darthjulian777 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2008
    star 2
    And yet in A New Hope the crawl didn't say that Anakin Skywalker fell to the darkside and joined the emperor who called for order 66 which killed the entire jedi order utilizing Clones made from the genetic material of a bounty hunter who was hired by the future apprentice of the guy who became emperor . The crawl only needs to lay out on screen characters, let the story flow from there. The audience doesn't NEED to know the backstory of incidents that happened 20 or more years prior they simply need to know the situation at the point of the movie.
    ScorpionJedi likes this.
  4. TigerCraneFist Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2002
    star 4
    True, but we got three movies explaining those events. And before those movies were made it needn't be explained because audiences didn't know who Anakin Skywalker was. People already know Chewie, Han, Leia and Luke.
    Asking audiences to read up on two decades worth of books and comic books to see what happened to Han and Leia's other two kids, who Luke's wife was, not to mention how a main character (Chewbacca) bit the dust, is just too much. All major events concerning the main characters (such as death of their kids or their own deaths) should be shown in the films so as not to confuse the audience. These stories were allowed to be told in the books because there wasn't supposed to be a sequel trilogy.
  5. darklordoftech Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 5
    As I've said, a character can't be there in one movie and not in the next with no explanation.
    Last edited by darklordoftech, Jul 29, 2013
  6. ShabbaTheHutt Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 8, 2013
    star 1
    No, he and Leia were 18-19 played by actors who were 26 and 21, and Han was 29 played by an actor who was 35.
    On average the actors were 5 years older than their respective characters ...which is easy to do with actors in their 20s and 30s.

    I don't see the problem with starting in 50 ABY when Luke, Leia and Han would be 69, 69 and 79
    If they start filming next year, those actors will be about 63, 58 and 72 which, with a 50ABY setting would make their respective characters on average 8 years older than the actors themselves ...which is easier to do with older actors than have them play characters younger than their real-life ages.

    50ABY would be a perfect starting point, It provides a gap of 5 years or so after the EU goes quiet around 45ABY and would make Ben and Allana the right age for two of the new characters mentioned in the casting call.

    Plus if they started the next movie with the "50th anniversary of the battle of Yavin" ceremony there would be plenty of scope for filling in the gaps with characters who haven't seen each other for a while discussing what has happened since ROTJ ....... maybe even a montage of heores of the battle who are now deceased (Like Chewie for instance!) included in the ceremony like we get in the Oscars ceremony.

    50ABY makes sense :)
    Last edited by ShabbaTheHutt, Jul 29, 2013
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  7. TigerCraneFist Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2002
    star 4
    I'm sorry, but... [face_sick]
    I'm certainly no EU hater (I have read and enjoyed dozens of books and basically all the comic books), but to reiterate my earlier point; all the epic actions and happenings in the post-RotJ EU couldn't possibly fit in the exposition of a scene or even an entire movie. Too much has happened for the general audience (the majority of all the people who'll see these movies who have not followed the EU) to take it in and accept it. Chewie is dead. Han and Leia had two kids that are now dead, one of whom fell to the dark side and killed Luke's wife (never to be seen on screen), but not before fathering a daughter who is now in Han and Leia's care. Hell, Han and Leia's last living child killed her own twin brother. The galaxy faced its most dangerous threat ever (the Yuuzhan Vong) and defeated said threat. The New Republic was started and then fell. I mean, seriously?
    No. It can't be done.
  8. ShabbaTheHutt Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 8, 2013
    star 1
    And you don't think taking off from this point makes for good storytelling?

    It isn't that difficult to get and it's patronising to suggest otherwise.

    You don't have to have followed the EU .... I haven't really followed it myself, but that doesn't mean I'm not aware of the existence of these characters.

    Despite the fact I'm a member of this forum I wouldn't consider myself a "massive" fan of the franchise as a whole, so I take offence to those who think that how capable you are of understanding the extent of the post-ROTJ EU is proportionate to how many dollars you've spent on paperbacks and models.

    When it comes to the EU, I'm more interested in the Legacy comics and the Dawn Of The Jedi stuff than anything else, from the Thrawn Trilogy to 45aby the stuff featuring the main characters from the movies is a little too soapy for my liking and besides which I've always seen it as th realm of snooty obsessives, so I stayed away from the EU until the PT drove many of them back to painting WWII German Tanks.

    The Vong have been defeated yes, and don't need to be a major part, or even shown, in the ST.
    There's a lot more goes on in the Nolanverse Batman's life than we see in the 3 movies but it doesn't all need to be mentioned in every other scene for those movies to work brilliantly, In fact it adds to the depth of the character.
    Last edited by ShabbaTheHutt, Jul 29, 2013
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  9. krtmd Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 5, 2012
    star 4
    "Always with you what cannot be done."

    Not picking on you @TigerCraneFist - couldn't help myself.
    TigerCraneFist likes this.
  10. A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Riot Deterrent

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Aug 19, 2003
    star 7
    In this case, he is more than likely correct...
  11. The Kulvax Sisters Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2013
    star 2
    I think the Post-ROTJ EU is doomoed, the same could probably be said of the inbetween movie stuff as well, the only question is: what happens to the pre-TPM EU? not as if it would contradict anything done in the ST, I mean sure you are probably going to need a new end for Exar Kun.... but honestly I can see the Old Republic stuff fitting in nicely with the ST.

    Doing new movies set before the PT however is of course an option, though I'm not sure they'd risk a movie where we don't have at least one or two big hero characters from the saga.
  12. darklordoftech Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 5
    That is sure to be interesting.
  13. TigerCraneFist Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2002
    star 4
    Maybe it could. I don't think it would make for a good Star Wars movie though. The feeling of the earlier movies would be hard to recapture with so much death and destruction having preceded the new ones. Death and destruction we haven't been privy to outside of the books. Good storytelling (in movies) is showing, not telling. This would only give us telling. Lots and lots of telling.
    I didn't say it was difficult to get - you could tell it in the opening crawl and one scene of exposition and it would make sense. It would make for bad storytelling though - see above.

    That might be true for you and a lot of other people, absolutely. But most people aren't aware of those characters. I have friends who love the Star Wars movies but have never read a book or comic. Hell, my girlfriend is a huge fan of the movies - and she lives with me, even lets me have my Star Wars collection on display in the living room - but still she has no idea who these characters are.

    Again, understanding it wouldn't be the problem. Making people accept it would. If I had not read the books and I walked into the theatre unspoiled and the first thing I see in the movie is a scene telling me all this, I would most certainly hate it. "They killed Chewie between the movies?! I love that furball, what the hell?"
    Agreed [face_peace]
    Hmm...

    True, but their mark on the galaxy is quite undeniable. Even a hundred years later, in the Legacy comics you yourself mentioned are they quite prevalent.
    I agree. But imagine this: after the tease of the Joker at the end of Batman Begins, The Dark Knight opens with a scene where Batman and his new sidekick Robin discussing how satisfying it was to put the Joker behind bars after a year of struggling to do so. Then on to the next villain. Also, Alfred is dead.
  14. darklordoftech Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 5
    Thank you! That puts it perfectly!
    Last edited by darklordoftech, Jul 29, 2013
  15. Darth_Xeres Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 3, 2010
    star 2
    Absolutely not. Audiences who don't know/care about the EU, which will be the vast majority of the audiences in theaters, would IMO not appreciate that so much has happened off-screen to Han, Leia and Luke, and their offspring. I believe viewers will readily accept Luke getting a wife, having children, Han and Leia marrying and having children – in short, they'll accept events that add to the galaxy far far away and to the main characters' lives. But Chewie's death, the death of Luke's wife, the death of two of Han and Leia's children – those are events that subtract from the main characters' lives, and I firmly believe viewers would not be nearly as receptive/appreciative of those.

    In one breath you imply that if we don't want the post-Endor EU to be integrated into the ST, we just don't "get it" and are close-minded (or worse), and in the next breath you deplore being patronized. Pot, meet kettle.

    If people don't read/buy the books, then how are they supposed to gain an understanding of the EU? True, they could just browse Wookieepedia and/or rent the novels from their local libraries… but gaining knowledge of the EU unavoidably demands that a person invests time and effort, if not money, into finding out what's happened in terms of galactic events and personal developments for various characters. Expecting viewers who don't know Star Wars outside of the movies and have no intention of digging into the EU until Ep VII's release, and those viewers will IMO comprise the vast majority of the Ep VII's audience, to do so IMO quite unrealistic.
  16. Don't grab the glowy end Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 25, 2013
    Agreed on most of your points. However, a simple way around this is to not have Han, Leia, and Chewie BE main characters. Chewie's absence wouldn't need to be explained if Han and Leia themselves only have cameos. The flaw in the Batman analogy is that Batman is still the main character in your pre-Joker and post-Joker movie, which probably isn't going to be the case with Luke and Star Wars.

    If you want Luke, Han, and Leia to play major roles in the new trilogy, I agree it gets trickier.
    krtmd likes this.
  17. darklordoftech Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 5
    I don't remember Han EVER appearing without Chewie. No Chewie = No Han.
  18. HanSolo29 Manager Emeritus + Official Star Wars Artist

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2001
    star 6
    Except Episode VII is being marketed as a direct continuation of ROTJ, so Luke, Han and Leia's presence is to be expected. Sure, they may not be the main characters (I don't expect them to be), but it should still bring their story to a logical and satisfying conclusion. Personally, I don't think that can work with all the extra baggage thrown in there as a result of the EU. Things have gotten way too complicated.
    Darth Chiznuk likes this.
  19. Sith_Knight087 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 5, 2012
    star 1
    I really hate to say this (especially since I'm a huge EU fan myself), but...

    [IMG]
    Last edited by Sith_Knight087, Jul 29, 2013
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  20. BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 5
    Because EU 2.0 will provide all of that sweet, sweet consistency and multi-media platform brand continuity that everyone was desperately striving for the first time and really didn't happen. Just give them a mulligan on the first EU cuz this time it'll actually work in concert with each other. Honest! They got a story group and everything! That wasn't there before, just Hidalgo and Chee running around trying to make everything fit. It's the EU we always wanted, yay!
    Last edited by BigAl6ft6, Jul 29, 2013
  21. darklordoftech Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 5
    I woud expect an "EU 2.0" to be more similar to the way Marvel does things. For example, there are comics that take place in between the Marvel movies, but nothing important happens in them.
    Krueger likes this.
  22. BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 5
    There's also those "Marvel One-Shots", there's flat-out one called "The Consultant" that is basically just continuity spackle applied to "Why isn't General Ross in Avengers when Tony Stark showed up at the end of Incredible Hulk and told him". But, yeah, the nu-EU will fill in gaps and stitch things together, as spin-off materiel should, not drop moons on wookies and, marry, birth and kill off kids and family members like they did before.
    Last edited by BigAl6ft6, Jul 29, 2013
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  23. Vthuil Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2013
    star 4
    I honestly can't tell if this is sarcastic.
  24. BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 5
    Little bit of both. Yay to an EU that actually works in tandem with all of the other mediums, slight jeers that they have to basically to knock it down to build it up again to get the EU that would have been ideal to maintain an original that worked together in the first place. They even flat-out admit that it hasn't quite worked before.
    Last edited by BigAl6ft6, Jul 29, 2013
    darklordoftech likes this.
  25. darklordoftech Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 5
    No KJAs or Dennings this time please!