Discussion Official Sequel Trilogy / Legends / Expanded Universe discussion thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII - Spoilers Allowed' started by YoureNotJonesy, Nov 2, 2012.

  1. ugaaccountant Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 9, 2011
    star 1
    We aren't getting a live action TV until saga 7-9 is complete. Disney said there was too much going on with the Saga, the spinoff movies we believe to be Fett/Solo/Yoda type movies, and Rebels . We're reportedly not going to see any supporting movies or TV for the new era until Movie 9 is already out. So that would be leaving the continuity in limbo for nearly a decade. I don't think they'll want to pause that long on comics/books, so again it comes back to a probability they keep the EU largely intact and just proceed as normal for books/comics.

    If you haven't noticed, the books/comics are already in a limbo status. We're getting stand alone books from the Original Trilogy era because they don't know what else can be done. The comics are about to show the first draft called "The Star Wars" which I'm guessing has been held for just such a moment. We're in a giant pause and just waiting for them to reach that key decision, which is do they throw out 30 years of revenue producing back catalog or not.

    If anyone needs to see this visually, take a trip to your local Barnes and Noble's and ask to see the Star Wars section. Even a new hire there will know what you're talking about and take you right to it because it's a huge chunk of shelf space. Now imagine if tomorrow Disney declares that non-cannon. You'd see either a huge firesale or an outright pulling of those books off the shelves, depending on what sort of contract is in place. But the idea of continuing to sell all that would be laughable.
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  2. ScorpionJedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2013
    star 2
    That still doesn't help the fact that years down the line someday EU 2.0=EU 1.0 now.
  3. newdawn12 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2013
    star 4
    then we have to do what Yoda told Luke, to forget all that we have learned.
  4. Darth Claire Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2012
    star 4
    Yeah sooner or later they'll have to reboot it because theres a 99% chance that the Sequel trilogy wont completely mesh with the EU so they will have to rewrite some stuff in order to make it fit better so we dont have two seperate EUs going around (cause you know Disney is gunna start making some spin off books/comics/whatnot of their own) One thats a direct sequel/mesh in with the sequel trilogy, while another that barely has anything in common with it. Trying to manage both would be too hard
    Last edited by Darth Claire, Aug 11, 2013
  5. The Hellhammer 7SA Forum Interrogator

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 2012
    star 5
    I still think the simplest and the best solution for the new EU to head into the far, far future of Star Wars universe and there they can pretty damn well do whatever the hell they please.
    Everyone stays happy that way.
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  6. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    I guess they are currently debating which EU parts to throw out and which to keep.

    Should we cut off after TTT? Or after TPM? Or when?

    They will need to make it as non-confusing as possible.

    The EU is insignificant compared to the other sources of revenue. Toys for instance are 10 times more important.

    http://statisticbrain.com/star-wars-total-franchise-revenue/
  7. Sandtrooper92 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2013
    star 2
    If were a writer I'd completely disregard the extended universe. No reason to contrive something that might not work. They won't be looking to appeal to the book and comics readers except on a nominal level. They're looking to make a block buster. For that matter, the books are nominal.

    The comic readers are a captive audience.

    Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2
  8. Jedi Comedian Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 27, 2012
    star 2
    Personally, I can't imagine they'd bother.

    Arndt and Abrams will be allowed to do whatever they want, so long as it meshes with Episodes 1-6 (and, you know, as long as it's good). I sincerely doubt anyone will ever make a decision like "OK, Truce at Bakura and the X-Wing series happened, cut off point is just before the Thrawn Trilogy". The films will be released, we'll find out for ourselves what the damage is, and fans will probably have to work out what fits and what doesn't on their own.

    I mean, they could say "everything after Return of the Jedi is gone, but any EU before that is fine". But then what if they make a Han Solo film that contradicts his current backstory? What if they make an Old Republic/Sith film that's nothing like the history we have now? What if they do an early Civil War film where Kyle Katarn and Mara Jade fall in love, and Thrawn is killed at the climax? The entire EU as we know it is in jeopardy, and I don't think we'll ever be sure what's safe and what's not.
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  9. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    Nah, I don't think they will spend that little effort. Sure Abrams and Arndt won't be beholden to the EU in any way (they might just look into it for ideas). But I still think they will set up a policy, whatever that may be. Why?

    1) Doesn't require much man effort
    2) They already have the everything set up (Chee...)

    SW EU is still too big to turn it into a total jungle.

    But of course we can never be entirely safe. In fact, we never were safe. That was just an illusion the continuity fanatics clung to.
  10. Jedi Comedian Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 27, 2012
    star 2
    I think the policy is going to be (a) doing smaller scale stories that don't have the same consequences from now on, and (b) working more closely with the writers of whatever's in production to make sure there's no immediate clashes.

    Even if there is an "EU 2.0", I still don't think Leland Chee (or anyone else) is going to stop any screenwriter or director from making the movie they (or the studio) want to make just because it's contradicted by a book. At best, I think they would offer suggestions.
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  11. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    I don't know about that. The EU almost automatically tends to gravitate towards galaxy shattering stories. I guess those sell better. But on the other hand you may be right that Disney wants to keep the novels "closer to the vest" than before. See, I am still unsure what will happen.

    Well, that's for sure. We are in complete agreement about that.
    Jedi Comedian likes this.
  12. ugaaccountant Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 9, 2011
    star 1
    Toys are nearly 3 times "more important" than the movies according to that chart. So no, important is not the right word for it. I'm actually surprised to see how much revenue the books have brought in as a % of all Star Wars revenue. As best I can tell that doesn't even include the comics.

    Does anyone know how a book publisher sells to a massive distributor such as Barnes and Nobles or Amazon? I don't know the specifics, but is there any type of underlying contract that says they won't do something which harms the ability of the books to be sold? Would they have to make B&N whole for the losses they incur if the EU is tossed out? That's going to play a bigger part in this than anything else, if there's an underlying contract of any kind.
  13. Jedi Comedian Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 27, 2012
    star 2
    I think the thing to remember is that the EU as we know it now was forged by the idea that there would be no more Star Wars films.

    In the late 70s/early 80s, you had the Marvel comics. Our heroes just had adventures, nothing major ever happened to them, there were no game changers in the war between the Rebels and the Empire. Significant events happened to new characters. Even after Return of the Jedi, things were kept to a small scale, with nothing drastic happening.

    In the 90s, it didn't look like George Lucas would ever return to Star Wars on film. Even if he did, he'd said it would only be to do Episode 1-3. So, the Thrawn Trilogy was released, and did something of note - it established that Han and Leia were married, and gave them twins. But the EU was still pretty conservative: the battle was with the Empire, or minor factions, nobody of importance died, and the timeline of the books stuck pretty closely to the time that had passed in the real world since the release of ANH.

    Finally, Lucas actually did start doing the prequels, and was pretty clear he was done with Star Wars after that. At that point, it was pretty much open season. Authors could dive into any era they wanted. The New Jedi Order series began, killed Chewie, and introduced a devastating new enemy to the GFFA. Caution went out of the window because nobody thought there would be sequels; the EU was the post-RotJ galaxy.

    And now we know that not only are we getting a Sequel Trilogy, we're getting regular spin-off movies after that, with no end in sight. The EU is no longer the biggest thing in Star Wars. The books are no longer the only place to explore what happened after the Battle of Endor. The EU is in a totally different place: it's no longer the only continuation of the series, it's a supporting player.

    The only way the EU will ever rise to that level again is if they openly declare that there will be no more movies. Then the EU will once again have free reign over what happens.

    If you want to know what the EU will most likely look like during the movie era, have a look at the Marvel Cinematic Universe tie-ins.
    Last edited by Jedi Comedian, Aug 11, 2013
  14. Jedi Comedian Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 27, 2012
    star 2
    I'm willing to bet that the boost of new Star Wars films will offset any drop in sales due to a new continuity. I don't buy any scenario where book stores are complaining to Lucasfilm about the single continuity being disrupted.

    You assume every book sale is by a hardcore fan who knows the timeline inside out. But there are plenty by kids and adults who like the movies and just want to know more. Or relatives buying books for fans. And there'll be more of these people buying once the new films come along, that's for sure.

    New Star Wars books tied to Episode VII will trump any sales of old EU reprints.
  15. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    Maybe 4% or so? Quite some money, but still unimportant compared to the other branches. Far less important than the movies for sure, especially because everything hinges on the movies.

    I never heard of a distributor suing the publisher because of changes in canon status.
  16. ugaaccountant Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 9, 2011
    star 1
    Ok, but what are they going to do with all of those existing books they've already got on hand? They obviously will have to pull them if a new continuity is being established because nobody would buy them. Hardcore fans would be done with them, and the clueless parent would be irate if they bought a book they found out had nothing to do with the current movies.

    Plus no, the sales of a handful of new books would not trump the sales of a huge back catalog. You know that most new books are actually sold at a discount for the first week, lowering drastically the profit margin at the time when most copies are flying off the shelves. A slow trickle from 100's of titles is more profitable than a couple of new books. It would take a few years to get back to the profitability of where we are now if they wipe the EU.
  17. ugaaccountant Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 9, 2011
    star 1
    Has there ever been a change in cannon status that would even remotely be like this? Star Trek established a parallel universe, as have several comics universes. I've certainly heard of a good deal of animosity on some of the comics universes, but Star Trek was accepted because it 1) didn't invalidate the existing catalog and 2) boosted new sales. But again, I'm not aware of one that was to a level where the existing books would have to come off shelves.

    I don't want the "parallel universe" outcome, but it's certainly on the table for discussion.
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  18. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    I think your fears are unfounded. If one big book company sues, then it will never ever again be able to sell SW novels and no company would want that. Additionally, it is questionable if they could even win the case.

    I think parallel universe is not unlikely. But they might stop publishing titles in the old timeline because of brand confusion.
  19. BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    All long-running interconnected continuity multimedia franchises have their own versions reboots here and there. Hell, Star Wars kinda already had it during the PT era, it was still Star Wars but focused on kinda-new characters, it was just able to (basically) fit into continuity because nothing in the Star Wars franchise had really touched on that era. Now, a bit over a decade and a half later, we're looking at yet another Star Wars reboot, but this time it's directly in conflict with what has come before, which hasn't been done in Star Wars yet on such a grand scale. And so, the cycle of rebooting will begin anew. And then maybe a decade or two later, it shall again. All of this has happened before, all of this will happen again.



    There are a lot of comic books from pre-various-reboot DC eras sitting on bookshelves and nobody has sued anybody over them being out of continuity and decreasing profit margins. Any unsold Star Wars novels will simply be back-stop. It's not as if they've been reprinting and reprinting The New Jedi Oder series ever since 1999. Books go out of print, time fades, whatever Star Wars books that are on the shelf will be the ones that move. Cuz they're in print now.
    Last edited by BigAl6ft6, Aug 11, 2013
  20. ugaaccountant Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 9, 2011
    star 1
    I'm not talking about a lawsuit. I'm talking about business. Disney won't screw over B&N and Amazon if there's a contract. Because those two make up a huge slice of the entire distribution chain for books, comics, kids items, etc. It would never come to a lawsuit. Disney could give them monetary compensation for their losses on existing stock, but that would likely be the minimum Disney would need to do to keep those relationships.
  21. ugaaccountant Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 9, 2011
    star 1
    Can you refresh my memory on any other reboot that has affected a significant # of books that were actively on shelves at the time?
  22. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    Big whoop. You are aware this is pretty unimportant in the grand scheme, or not? Amazon will be happy it can sell these new blu rays and dvds that will come out of the ST. Big projects always demand some minor sacrifice or two.
    ugaaccountant likes this.
  23. BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4

    Sure, any comic book reboot that happens here and there has a continuity affect on those books. People can look and say "Bah! This book is not in canon anymore" but the back catalog is still there to be purchased, however it's not exactly being reprinted. What is new is what is will move. But classic comic book stories still move, people still buy Batman: Year One or Ultimate Spider-Man even thought the landscape of those series has changed dramatically since then. Those get reprints. The middle chuff does not really. That's just for collectors to fill in the gap.
  24. MillionthVoice Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2013
    star 1
    Reboot/canon changes/whatever doesn't matter one bit. Running bookstores means sometimes you get stiffed with the occasional dud book. It's part of the game. Nothing gets pulled, no-one gets compensated. Why do you think bargain bins exist?
    Last edited by MillionthVoice, Aug 11, 2013
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  25. ugaaccountant Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 9, 2011
    star 1
    Agreed, there certainly are ways of making Amazon/B&N whole like Darth Pevra is saying. But I think there will certainly be some meetings held on this because it's not like comics that have gone out of print. They are still asking these distribuors today to buy books that are about to be unsellable. This isn't going to be just ignored, conversations are happening on a business end of this not just on the creative end with the new writers.

    I've also never seen a whole shelf of books get dumped in a bargain bin all at the same time. This really will be a sight to behold if it goes down.

    Disney won't be stiffing any distributor channels because they need to keep those strong relationships for their overall catalog and their new SW catalog. So do they leave the existing EU as is to be the ultimate compromise? Maybe, we'll see.