Discussion Official Sequel Trilogy / Legends / Expanded Universe discussion thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII - Spoilers Allowed' started by YoureNotJonesy, Nov 2, 2012.

  1. Mange Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2003
    star 4
    As Chee explained years ago, the novelizations works on a case by case basis, not per source basis. Anything written by the author not included in early drafts etc. is C-canon.

    Well, then the Cross-Sections came closest as the DSII was intended to be 500 miles in diameter according to the production team...


    No, but not by a lower-canon source (but two conflicting sources can of course be reconciled).
    Last edited by Mange, Aug 24, 2013
  2. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    I'm not entirely sure that Lucasfilm Licencing makes that distinction. Anything that originates with the author, but not Lucas- is C-canon. Yet something can originate with Lucas without appearing in a script- Darth Bane stuff in the TPM novel, for example.

    The DS1 model was 120cm wide, and the model scale was said to be 180,000 in an interview with a modeller (corresponds to 216 km) yet this was eventually changed first to 120km then 160 km.

    Modeller statements aren't always a guide to what's actually used.
    Last edited by Iron_lord, Aug 24, 2013
  3. Mange Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2003
    star 4
    Yes, and in those cases it's G-canon.

    The actual quote from Bantha Tracks #6 was this:

    However, it's true that a 120 cm model would result in a 216 km DSI. Incidentally, when Hyperspace was active, a PhotoReceptor picture was released depicting a drawing made by Ralph McQuarrie showing a 100 mile in diameter DSI.

    As for WEG, I don't know from where they pulled their figures (and most of them needed to be corrected afterwards anyway).
  4. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    The Star Wars Encyclopaedia or similar sources, possibly.

    Saxton cites A Guide to the Star Wars Universe, as the source of the "5x length of an ISD" figure for the Executor:
    http://www.theforce.net/swtc/ssd.html
    However, it's true that a 120 cm model would result in a 216 km DSI.[/quote]
    Wookieepedia cites Star Wars: Behind the Magic, as the source for the DS1 model being 120 cm.

    Interestingly, long after WEGs figures were introduced, somebody (a person who believed that Only The Movies Really Count, as it happens) did their own estimates:

    http://www.st-v-sw.net/STSWdeathstarsizes.html
    http://www.st-v-sw.net/STSWdeathstarsizes-2.html

    and got the exact same figures as WEG did.
    Last edited by Iron_lord, Aug 25, 2013
  5. Vthuil Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2013
    star 4
    Are "who would win" sites really the only kind of places to find this stuff?

    ...sigh.
  6. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    It's about the only place where alternate estimates to the Saxton ones, can be seen.
  7. Mange Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2003
    star 4
    Please. Don't bring Darkstar's site and the VS debate into this... The scaling on that site is erroneous.

    Saxton works (or worked) from actual sources...
    Last edited by Mange, Aug 25, 2013
  8. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    The photos make it pretty clear that Saxton's scaling of the DS2 to Endor (11.5:1) is almost certainly erroneous.
  9. Mange Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2003
    star 4
    Uh, no... Remember that Saxton worked from other sources as well. Also, Darkstar based his calculations on faulty measurements (such as those based on the Lambda-class shuttle). As for the Endor/DS ratio... Well, they are a bit inconsistent throughout. However, we don't see the Rebels, Ewoks and Imperials bouncing around or having other issues so it can't be much smaller than Earth (nevermind it being filmed in California ;P).
  10. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    According to The Essential Atlas, it's 4900 km- the size of Mercury. And it's far from the smallest planet in that book.

    Planets in the SW universe seem to get very small, without losing habitability- which means they must be very dense.

    12.5 m wide, in landed configuration, was exactly the same figure as Saxton used.
    Similarly- 22.5 m diameter for the Falcon, is exactly the right proportion for the present-day 35 m length.
    Last edited by Iron_lord, Aug 25, 2013
  11. Mange Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2003
    star 4
    I know that the ridiculously low figure is mentioned in the Atlas. If one consider that to be the radius, it would ring more true.

    I'll check that.

    No, it's not. That would be 25.6 meters.
    Last edited by Mange, Aug 25, 2013
  12. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    If that was the case- how come 35m long is given as the length of the Falcon in Darkstar's table of ship lengths?

    Maybe he revised it?
  13. Mange Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2003
    star 4
    No, I don't think so. That size was accepted in the SW vs ST debate circles a long time ago (and Robert Brown calculated the size way back on his excellent Star Wars Discussions site). I think it has to do with getting the proportions right.
    Last edited by Mange, Aug 25, 2013
  14. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    I recall one of the books about SW props -From STAR WARS to Indiana Jones - telling us that the full size Falcon prop used in the ESB movie was only 60-odd feet long. Definitely a mismatch.

    What I meant was- maybe at the time Darkstar wrote the Death Star article- the Falcon was still "officially" 26.7m long (as it is in Incredible Cross Sections) and got revised after that, and the table used the revised figure- but the Death Star page was never updated (using a 22.5 m wide Falcon based on a 26.7m long one).
    Last edited by Iron_lord, Aug 25, 2013
  15. CaptainMorgan2013 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 22, 2013
    star 1
    Not sure how this discussion about DS or Falcon size fits with the parts of EU that you want to see in the ST.

    I mean, does size really matter?

    I, for one, would love to see Leia as a bad-*** lightsaber wielding Jedi. Perhaps would could see her and Luke fighting side by side in a lightsaber battle against the new baddie (ala Ben and Anakin vs. Dooku).

    Are there any other force powers that you would like to see her using in the ST?
    Jedi Merkurian likes this.
  16. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    It was a spin-off from the notion that TCW cannot be retconned (with there being some evidence that things from the RoTJ novelization were retconned- things which might quite possibly have come direct from Lucas himself).

    I agree that it's a bit off topic- and that we should get back to the topic of the thread.

    Which is- EU-related stuff, and the Sequel trilogy.

    I think that, since EU Leia has demonstrated some skill with a lightsaber- it would be nice to see this translated to the sequel movies, yes.
    Last edited by Iron_lord, Aug 25, 2013
  17. Mange Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2003
    star 4
    That is an excellent book! :) Yes, set props are often built to smaller scale (the MF in SW and the Galileo shuttle in ST for example).

    I really don't know if G2k (I believe Darkstar is an earlier nick) did revise the site.

    You're absolutely right, CM. I don't know how we got on this tangent to begin with.:p
  18. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
  19. ugaaccountant Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 9, 2011
    star 1
    G cannon, C cannon, "so spoke George" etc. are no longer "evidence" of anything now that George is no longer in charge. We should be speculating based on going forward logic of what will make Disney happy and profit filled, not looking back to past logic from a previous administration.
    Darth_Pevra likes this.
  20. Circular Logic SWTV Interview Host

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2013
    star 4
    Not to a certain green Jedi Master, it doesn't.

    [IMG]
  21. CaptainMorgan2013 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 22, 2013
    star 1
    Hot damn! @ugaaccountant you said it! I have been hesitant to say it myself but the canon wars are over!

    Now that that is settled, the doors are wide open.

    Will we see Wookies and Hutts as Jedi? Starkiller as the villain?
  22. sluggo1313. Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2013
    star 4
    Except the outlines the ST are being based on came from Lucas and Kennedy has said he is still involved in the creative procces.

    Lucas didnt' write Hans "I Know" line, but its in the movie that is considered G-Level canon, so it is considered G-level canon.

    What would make the most sense for Disney to ignore contunity altogether. Marvel and the Avengers has shown/proven that fans don't need everything to line up and match, that fans can/will accept multi. verisons of characters. There is Movie Iron-man, Avengers Cartoon Iron-man, Iron-man cartoon Iron-man, several different comic verisons of the characters......no one is confused and no on cares. If Disney want to get the most out of Star Wars this is the formula they'll follow. It allows them to make a wide range of products (Movies, direct to DVD-movies, cartoons, tv shows, comics, novels, books, & video-games) while giving their different creative people/teams complete creative freedom.
    CaptainMorgan2013 likes this.
  23. HWK-290 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 29, 2013
    star 2
    You should speak with Spidey fans sometime. The number of times a Spider-Man run - or Peter Parker in general - has been effectively rebooted for the sake of tie-in material is somewhat ridiculous. How much do you want to bet that the current Superior Spider-Man run lasts past the release of The Amazing Spider-Man 2?
  24. sluggo1313. Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2013
    star 4

    The general thought right now is that Miles will end up in the 616 universe and be "the" spider-man.

    And what your'e talking about is bad creative decisions. But Spider-Man fans don't get their panties in a knot about the movie's not lining up and being in the same continuity as the comic books. Or that the tv shows are seperate from both.
  25. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Mostly because, for the last few years, we've been told that virtually everything in Star Wars is fittable into one continuity- with various background books- The Essential Atlas, The Essential Chronology, The Essential Guide to Warfare, The Essential Guide to the Force, etc written, based on that presumption.