Discussion Official Sequel Trilogy / Legends / Expanded Universe discussion thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilers Allowed' started by YoureNotJonesy, Nov 2, 2012.

  1. sluggo1313. Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2013
    star 4

    Thats how the comic book universes started out. But then things changed. And the brands got bigger because of it, they attracted more fans.

    If Disney wants to get the most out of Star Wars they'll follow the Avenger/Marvel model. There is no reason why they can't made more movies AND a cartoon series (or several of them) each with different versions of the same characters. There is no reason that every book or comic they put out has to fit in the same continuity. Leaving that idea in the past makes their products more accessable, more open creatively, and allows them more oppertunities to create more products. AND its been proven that fans are fine that kind of set up.
    Darth_Pevra likes this.
  2. Mzukiller Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 5, 2012
    star 2
    That's why I like the EU. Unlike DC or Marvel, you don't need to put every good story that's not relevant to the movies in an alternate universe. This is an entire Galaxy, and it's struggles over the course of thousands of years. You telling me there can only ever be one significant event per Universe?
    Star Wars and Spider-Man are extremely different, you do know that right?
    Apophis_ and Force Smuggler like this.
  3. sluggo1313. Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2013
    star 4

    I'm not the onew ho made that comparison. But there is no reason why Star wars fans can't and won't take to multi. continuities across different mediums like comic book fans have.

    And who ever said there could only be 1 event per continuity/universe? There is just no reason to confine themselves creatively to only 1 continuity. Why would the Luke and Han in a cartoon series HAVE to be the same verisons of the characters int he movies AND the comics AND the novels AND the games etc... If Comic book fans can accept and deal with different takes on the same character, why can't we?
  4. Artoo-Dion Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2009
    star 4
    I would be very surprised if Disney approach tie-in media as a separate continuity.

    All you have to do is look at TRON: Legacy for what they'll do with Star Wars: the game, the comic and the TV series were all made with a tightly integrated storyline, with the writers of the film having a hand in the development of the animated series--just as Kinberg is working both on the new SW films and Rebels as well.

    Expect the new EU to follow this same pattern.
  5. BigAl6ft6 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 5
    Agreed. There's just this whole "Heir to the Empire" to "Lucasfilm sold to Disney" worth of content that is going to be tricksy to figure out how it'll be used / retconed / completely tossed / integrated into the film franchise.

    Once that it out of the way, I'm seeing a much smoother way of working. Heck, they even said as much already! Of course, major events in character's lives will totally be confined to films and maybe TV series but, hey, if you wanna know how character XYZ got an eyepatch, go pick up the comic. Cuz in the movie eyepatch character will simply say "Don't ask." but if you read the "Star Wars: How XYZ Got his Eyepatch" comic book then you win nerd points!
    Last edited by BigAl6ft6, Aug 26, 2013
  6. sluggo1313. Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2013
    star 4
    Much smaller in scope and they were stating from scratch. T,o what you're saying the movie will have to follow the which everyone involved has pretty much said they won't do.

    I wouldn't be surprised if we get that kind of tie in material for episode vii. But that doesn't mean ALL Star Wars material will tie in or be in the same continuity. Or that that new material will tie into the current eu material. If the current eu limits what they can do with that new tie material at all, it will ignored. Star Wars much more like the avengers with the pre-existing material, and they just ignored it and allow lots of versions to exist at once.

    But there is no reason why every story about eye patch character has to be in the same continuity. And if a book or tv show or future movie wants to deal with how he got the eye patch, the reason they can't cover e same ground by with some changes.

    MODified: You have an Edit button. Use it.
    Last edited by A Chorus of Disapproval, Aug 27, 2013
  7. sluggo1313. Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2013
    star 4
    Double Post
    Last edited by A Chorus of Disapproval, Aug 27, 2013
  8. BigAl6ft6 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 5
    Yeah but the reason I used "eyepatch guy" is because it's an essentially meaningless grand scheme of things to do in spin-off materiel but gets a shout-out in the movies. But a shout-out that is reverse engineered from the final product, not the final product servicing the spin-off merch. Same deal happened with "Into Darkness" with referencing the "Mudd incident" (which you can buy "Countdown to Darkness" comic!) or Bones ramblin' bout Gorn (which you can buy the "Star Trek" videogame). I'm not saying the moviemakers have to bend over for publishing for eyepatch guy's story, that was all the moviemakers decision themselves to give that guy an eyepatch and didn't think nothing of it. The spin-off merchandise puts the pieces together after the fact by telling the story how eyepatch guy his eyepatch.

    By putting them into the same universe, you can move more numbers of the XYZ that is passingly mentioned in the movie. So while the bits in Into Darkness weren't created specifically to reference the comics and game, that's what they took to run off on their own. Sell, sell, sell! I'm all down with creative freedom for different creators but selling merch is one of the more important things for the brand. Cash, not creativity, generally rules the day.
    Last edited by BigAl6ft6, Aug 26, 2013
  9. sluggo1313. Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2013
    star 4
    You reference Star Trek there, but their novels aren't all in the same continuity and that didnt hurt their tie-in material at all. I'm sure there will be episode vii tie-in material like there was for Star Trek but it doesn't have to be in the same continuity as everything else ever produced, and probably won't be. For example, they may want to include some "fill I the gaps" material, like how Han and Leia got married or luke training his first apprentice etc... And it's unlikely they'll just reprint books from 25 years ago and be tied to that material.

    Ignoring continuity gives them more opportunities to make more cash. Never having to deal with "that story has already been told and it was told this way" or "you can't do that, this book already said the opposite happened" = more opportunity
  10. BigAl6ft6 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 5
    I agree that the filmmakers should ignore spin-off continuity anyway so it doesn't matter because they never have to worry about not having to do something that was already told in the books or comics. And that's what they do anyway. The Star Trek comic and videogame are about the same characters and, in the case of the videogame, use the same actors, and the writer of the movie (who also worked on the comics and videogame) flat-out declared them canon. But by sticking them as offshoots of the movie they can move more of that product. I'm not saying there *is* an unbreakable canon, but like the Into Darkness tie-ins, sometimes you can cheat and create the illusion of one. And sell more of those spin-off merch by playing "spot the reference" in the movie of that comic book you own. Which is what I see happening with the Disney / Bad Robot era of Star Wars.
    Last edited by BigAl6ft6, Aug 26, 2013
  11. sluggo1313. Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2013
    star 4
    As I said I wouldn't be surprised at all if episode vii had tie ins, but I would also be surprised if they don't follow the avenger model and we have movies, tv shows, comics, books etc that all stand alone ad have their own tie in material.
  12. BigAl6ft6 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 5
    That's very possible too and I actually wouldn't have much of a problem with it. But once they erase all EU everything post ROTJ (which is very, very likely to happen) to clean the slate for Ep. 7, I can see them trying to maintain the whole "all one canon" system, or at least pretending too. It's all the brainchild of publishing and Chee, etc., anyway to try to cram it all together and make fans happy. Or try to.
  13. Normal_Nerds Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 21, 2013
    star 1
    The main problem with the post-RotJ EU is that some of it is good and should stay, some of it is garbage and shouldn't be kept and some of it had problems with execution and should be modified. I think that it would be a mistake to get rid of it all though.

    Episode VII is, just by the age of the original cast (who were all older than their characters in ANH), going to be at least 30 years after the deaths of Vader and the Emperor. That 30 years needs to be filled with something. Dark Empire can easily be ignored (I know many fans eyeroll at the Emperor's return), the Jedi Academy series (trilogy, game, general idea) would all be stuff to keep. GL asked for Anakin Solo to be killed off, so I could imagine that he wouldn't be mentioned/included. Legacy of the Force is one of those odd ones that could easily be modified so that Jacen's fall and Jaina's emotional confrontation with him would happen at the end of the New Jedi Order series (which would make a great, more mature, animated series). The Yuuzhan Vong war seems like too good a story/threat to just ditch. Fate of the Jedi and beyond is forfeit due to it's timeframe.

    I've been quite brief with my ideas, but I just wanted to give an example of how the EU could be truncated instead of simply wiped clean. A lot of fans and media outlets are being very black and white with the EU/no EU issue, but I think it would be silly to wipe out everything that could easily fit inside that 30 year gap.
    Last edited by Normal_Nerds, Aug 27, 2013
    HWK-290 and ScorpionJedi like this.
  14. ScorpionJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2013
    star 3
    Absolutely. There are some real gems of the post-ROTJ EU. It was the first form of EU ever made, it's just rude and obnoxious of Disney and a slap in the face to older fans if they do a complete wipe. Truncating it would be indeed easier. Stuff like the Yuuzhan Vong deserve to stay. But yeah I'm sure they could try and find a way of integrating everything somehow, Dark Horse Comics could think of something.
    Samayel_ and Normal_Nerds like this.
  15. DarthBreezy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2002
    star 6
    The trouble is, who's to say what's 'garbage' and what's 'good'? Putting aside the inevitable eye roll that this is coming from someone who 'doesn't care for' any of the post Jedi EU, there are actually some readers who actually like what even many hard core EU reader consider 'clunkers'. When the books were written, they were considered 'good enough' to be published, and invested in by the companies involved (enough to enjoy several reprintings I'm sure). Hell, the only 'EU' out there that will never see the light of day again is the 'Holiday Special'...
    Vthuil and Normal_Nerds like this.
  16. Normal_Nerds Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 21, 2013
    star 1
    Absolutely. The problem with deciding what stays and what goes is tricky. Just look at how hardcore fans of DC Comics reacted to the New 52 reboot. Every character is somebody's favourite. But you're going to please more Star Wars (rather than casual) fans by keeping/truncating the EU than you are by wiping it.

    I think that for now, and perhaps even when EpVII comes out, the best that we can do is to take the EU as included by omission - if it isn't directly contradicted, then it could have happened in some form.
    Last edited by Normal_Nerds, Aug 27, 2013
  17. TigerCraneFist Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2002
    star 4
    Yeah, that's what makes the most sense actually. Some details may change but the overall story of, say, The Thrawn Trilogy could still be canon. No different from The Clone Wars, just on a bigger scale.

    Dark Empire, however, should be cast back into the fiery chasm from whence it came [face_devil]
    kubricklynch and Normal_Nerds like this.
  18. ScorpionJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2013
    star 3
    There's also the long term issues of rebooting. What if this new EU reaches the levels that the current EU is at now? You going to wipe it "clean" again and again?



    I see no reason why the Thrawn Trilogy needs to go. It occurs barely a decade after ROTJ where the characters are still quite young(like 20s-30s), whereas with Ep. VII we know that Luke & Co. are much older where they could be grandparents.
    Last edited by ScorpionJedi, Aug 27, 2013
    HWK-290 and Normal_Nerds like this.
  19. TigerCraneFist Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2002
    star 4
    The question is if that's really going to happen. There won't be a need for such an expansive expanded universe if they keep to the plan of one Star Wars movie every year.
    I mean, people like us will probably still want it, but the average fan would most likely be satisfied with the movies and maybe, maybe the occasional comic book.
    Also video games of course.
    Sure, and that's what I'm saying. The overall story could still have happened, even though details might have changed (Han and Leia not having kids until ten years after RotJ instead of five, said kids being named Zapp and Calculon Solo instead of Jacen and Jaina, etc).
    Last edited by TigerCraneFist, Aug 27, 2013
  20. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    TTT is set only 5 years after RoTJ.

    Different bits of the EU appeal to different people. There's those who love Dark Empire and those who hate it, those who love TTT and those who hate it- those who like both, those who hate all EU on principle, and so forth.

    No policy is going to please everybody- but it's possible to displease the minimum number of people.
    Normal_Nerds likes this.
  21. TigerCraneFist Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2002
    star 4
    Indeed.
  22. sluggo1313. Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2013
    star 4

    Why? And why would they have to "erase" the current EU? What I'm suggesting is they could continue the current EU, with more novels and comics for those who like it AND create new, orginal material in the same time frame that supports the new movies. More money making oppertunities.


    Unless they want to make a new story that takes place in the same time frame or that story would interfer with something else they want to do.

    Also, why not learn from the past. I think one of the biggest mistakes/misteps of the Thrawn trilogy was killing Thrawn. I think it would be fantastic if we got a cartoon series set post RotJ with Thrawn as the main villain in continuing stories.

    And I think the way to displease the minimum number of people is to not scrap anything, let it all exist. No reason to say "The Thrawn Trilogy never happened", but also no reason they can't make a cartoon series with THrawn as the main villain or Han and Leia have to have twins etc....
    Last edited by sluggo1313., Aug 27, 2013
  23. BigAl6ft6 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 5
    You start to run into brand confusion if the current EU keeps publishing alongside the Ep. 7 spin off stuff. Let's say somebody walks outta Ep 7 says, "goddamn, that was a great watch! I'll buy me a book!" (optimal scenario of merchandising that makes Disney's mouth water with sweet, sweet moneymaking). The guy walks into a book store. Picks up "Sword of the Jedi: The Sequel!" or whatever. Reads it. There's Jania Solo and Han and Leia's grandkid and Ben Skywalker and all that which is not in Episode 7 at all. You're going to have basically the brand conflicting with itself. It wouldn't entice new people to pick it up, if anything, a multi-layered different brand of new EU novels sitting right beside the Ep. 7 merch would be impenetrable and not accessible for the readers. Even if you slap a big ole "EXPANDED UNIVERSE!!!!" in underline and bolded text on the cover. If anything, if the original post ROTJ EU was published alongside ep. 7, it would inevitably be crushed by the Ep. 7/ ST branded merch because, as with all things, the fanbase for the old thing falls away and the new, and movie branded, one sticks along. It's either wipe it out now or death by attrition. Take your pick.


    I think this is very doable. We'll get "Ultimate EU" versions of notable stories. The Thrawn Trilogy is very popular and did help single-handedly with the resurgence of Star Wars in the early 90s. It's probably the most prominent piece of EU out there. I can see it eventually being adapted in some format, but the details change to Zap and Calculon Solo, it took place 10 years after ROTJ instead of 5, etc. It can't be "kept" because that locks the moviemakers into "Jania and Jacen Solo. Born five years after the Battle of Endor. They are 25 (or 35) year old twins in Episode 7. Because the Thrawn Trilogy happened. And this movie set 30 (or 40) years after ROTJ" Which, if you look at the casting descriptions leaked, there are no male and female twin pairings in there. Also all indications from various sources show that the moviemakers aren't sitting around and taking notes on what happened in the books.
    Last edited by BigAl6ft6, Aug 27, 2013
    Artoo-Dion likes this.
  24. sluggo1313. Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2013
    star 4

    Thats been the/an argument for a while and I used ot think so too, but Marvel and the avengers do it no problem. They have ZERO problem selling Avenger books that have nothign to do with movie right beside ones that tie into the movies. And having a cartoon that doesn't tie into either. With each having different verisons of the same characters. If comic book fans are smart enough to get it, if they can walk into a comic book store and pick up Avengers Assemble and figure it out, I think Star Wars fans will as well.
  25. Vthuil Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2013
    star 4
    And yet, the comics always seem to adapt themselves to match with the adaptations. Look at (for instance) the original Nick Fury suddenly having a grandson (or son, I forget) who just so happens to look like the MCU Fury..
    Jedi Comedian likes this.