Discussion Official Sequel Trilogy / Legends / Expanded Universe discussion thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII - Spoilers Allowed' started by YoureNotJonesy, Nov 2, 2012.

  1. Robimus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2007
    star 5
    Audience size isn't really that relevant unless it turns into $$$$ spent by that audience. Considering that all the shows could have been almost instantly watched for free they could have had issues there. Could explain why TCW merch ended up on clearance racks everywhere through 2012.

    What good is fan loyalty if they only spend $10 every couple years to go see a film?

    It is still hypothetical because you don't have solid numbers for e-books. You have guesses, estimates and Force visions.

    That is a bold statement considering that you know nothing about the film yet. Your reminding me a little of Seth Rogan in Fanboys right now. All ready to run out and get the Jar Jar tattoo because you just know how awesome Episode 1 and Jar Jar are going to be.;)

    Now I'm not making any bold statements here. I don't know how this is going to play out. But I do know companies that forsake their most loyal customers can get burned in the long run. I don't know that is what will happen, chances are it won't. If it doesn't happen I'll readily admit that they made the right move financially.
    Last edited by Robimus, Aug 29, 2013
  2. A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Riot Deterrent

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Aug 19, 2003
    star 7
  3. MillionthVoice Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2013
    star 1
    Burned can mean a lot of things. They sure lost my book money with those Vong.
    aleja2 likes this.
  4. sluggo1313. Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2013
    star 4
    Depends on what serves the story and the new creators want to do. All rumors are that Luke's son will figure into the story (apparently they spoke to Gosling and Pettyfer to play him). But if Lucas, Arndt, Abrams etc... dont' want to deal with Mara Jade, the name Ben, etc... then why would/should be held to those pre-existing concepts?


    And yet they had enough viewers and customers of Clone War material to continue the show for 5 seasons, and potentially longer if not for the sale to Disney. AND to warrent a new show to replace it go into production. It wasn't an issue.

    You mean a concept were they don't lost their existing fans, like continue to make material they enjoy? Thats excatly what I'm suggesting.

  5. aleja2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2005
    star 2
    No.

    That's not how television and film work.

    Merchandise is known in the biz as an "ancillary" revenue stream. Ancillary as in "subordinate, supplementary."

    Films make money in a variety of ways: domestic (i.e. US and sometimes Canada is included) box office, foreign box office (now a bigger revenue stream than domestic), global DVD rentals, global DVD sales, global download rentals, global download sales. global pay-per-view TV sales, global pay TV licensing, global free or basic cable TV licensing.

    TV makes money through US broadcast licensing for first run, US broadcast licensing for subsequent runs, licensing to foreign broadcasters for first and subsequent broadcast runs, DVD sales, DVD rentals, download rentals, download sales.

    These are the primary streams of revenue for film and TV production.

    Lucasfilm got its money from day one by licensing the broadcast rights to Turner. TURNER (ie Cartoon Network, TNT, etc.) is the entity harmed by falling ratings, because Turner sells advertising time based on projected ratings, and if the ratings fall below the number promised to the advertiser, then Turner has to "make good" or give the advertisers additional time elsewhere.

    Merchandising is just the cherry on top for entertainment production companies. In the case of the Star Wars brand, it's a very shiny, very attractive and very lucrative cherry. But it is not the end all and be all. Disney did not buy Lucasfilm just to make action figures. Disney bought Lucasfilm for its storytelling potential, and the ability to continue to tell new stories through film and television that will then drive the ancillary (i.e. consumer products) businesses.

    [Also, Lucasfilm already made the bulk of its money off the merchandise by selling a license to create said merchandise to third party vendors. It's the vendors and the stores that are most directly hit in the purse when merchandise doesn't move. Sure, TCW merchandise might not sell right now, but it certainly did fine for the preceding five years. Franchises age, and TCW is not immune to that. Hence Disney's/Lucasfilm's decision to cease production on TCW and to concentrate on newer, fresher material - and newer, fresher merchandise.]

    So, yes, those casual eyeballs on the films and TV series are very important. Also, fans are fickle. Catering to them only creates a tepid mess that no one likes in the long run. [see: current state of the post-ROTJ EU]

    No, I have solid numbers for the hard covers, as I said. A drop of over 60,000 unit sales in four years is STAGGERING. Ebooks don't account for that. At best, ebooks account for 50% of sales - and even that was a projection that isn't being carried out by current numbers. It's actually currently more like 25%, now that adoption of ebooks has slowed down and flattened out.

    And it seems people are buying new Star Wars books in print, not e-book. Crucible only made the NYT hardcover list. It failed to make the combined print and digital list that same week. So sorry, it's highly illogical to think that Crucible is selling mass quantities in digital (especially as the digital list price is $13.99) and making up for its rather weak (by comparison to the Bantam EU) print sales.

    Where did I say anything about the quality of the ST films? I am, however, more than prepared to demonstrate my joy that the horrid, ill-conceived crap that was the DelRey post-ROTJ timeline EU is going down in flames and consigned to the dustheap of bad storytelling, where it belongs. I wanted a reboot years ago. I am SO THRILLED one is coming, no matter what it looks like - 'cause it can't be any worse. If that means buying my niece and nephews all the OT merchandise I can find, then so be it.


    They're already poised to have a record breaking opening box office weekend, based on people's curiosity alone. They'll do just fine financially.
    Artoo-Dion likes this.
  6. Robimus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2007
    star 5
    I love it. Several million less people watching Star Wars on TV doesn't equal less people watching/ being interested in Star Wars. And yes, clearly less people are reading the books and comics as well.

    Wait a second. Toy sales have totalled something like 18 billion dollars in revenue for LFL. Pretty much double the box office totals & DVD sales combined.

    They made money off TCW, no doubt. But Lucas really hasn't ever been motivated by that. He could have kept turning out programs just because he wanted to. The fact that Disney axed it instantly, despite having several more finished arcs being ready to air, I think is telling of how well the show was doing last year.
    Last edited by Robimus, Aug 30, 2013
  7. Vthuil Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2013
    star 4
    This. Not so much the specifics - my opinion of the NJO isn't very high, but it didn't turn me off of the books - but the general point: for every diehard EU fan who abandons Star Wars forever, there may well be a fan alienated by the post-ROTJ EU who's happy to come back now that it's been done away with.

    When you come down to it, I think focusing on any group of fans' attitudes towards the EU is essentially myopic. They're always going to be a small minority at best.
    aleja2 likes this.
  8. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    One must keep in mind that there would be no demand for toys if there weren't any movies. Therefore, toys are ancillary even if they outsell the movies branch.
    aleja2 likes this.
  9. BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 5
    The Clone Wars was also tied into Warner Bros ever since the movie, and Cartoon Network isn't Disney, it's Time Warner. They didn't just give those finished arcs over to another network, they want a show they can put all on their own networks. Same deal happened to "Spectacular Spider-Man" when Disney bought Marvel, they just canned it regardless of ratings. If you're going to blame TCW for getting axed, ratings isn't the main reason, continuity clashes with "Courscant Nights" and "Medstar" certainly isn't, it's the fact that Disney bought Lucasfilm and want it all on their networks without even having to deal with Warners.
    aleja2, Circular Logic and Vthuil like this.
  10. JackG Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2011
    star 4
    The show was also very bad by the end, but that's just my opinion.
  11. ezekiel22x Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2002
    star 4
    O-EU vs. D-EU. Soon to be the latest trend in Star Wars fandom wars.
    BigAl6ft6 likes this.
  12. CryGoneGin Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2013
    star 1
    Consider my words eaten, that's a good point.
  13. Sith_Knight087 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 5, 2012
    star 1
    ''There was never an Expanded Universe set after ROTJ.''
    [IMG]
    Could just imagine Lucas and Iger wanting to do this.
    Last edited by Sith_Knight087, Sep 1, 2013
  14. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    I can think of like a bazillion times I could've used this.
  15. HWK-290 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 29, 2013
    star 2
    The hell there wasn't. We've got a two day head start on you, which is more than we need. We've got books stashed in every town and village from here to the Sudan, written in a dozen languages, hidden in every local bookstore, they'll blend in, disappear, you'll never find them... but we will, and we'll remember. With any luck, we've won this battle already.
    Last edited by HWK-290, Sep 1, 2013
  16. Don't grab the glowy end Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 25, 2013
    It's pretty clear that they're going to be fine financially no matter what they do. I do think there's value in not completely throwing out the current EU, but arguing that based for reasons of $$$ is silly.

    On a more specific note, I wouldn't be surprised if at some point in the far future there's a Thrawn movie/trilogy. That storyline in particular seems to have a special place in the Star Wars universe - even relatively casual fans know about it. Seeing as it takes place before Luke builds his new Jedi order, it's hard for me to see the ST completely invalidate it in the same way that it might, for example, the Vong invasion. Some things like the Jacen/Jaina birth or Obi-Wan's last ghost appearance might need to be removed, but those are relatively minor points in the trilogy.
    HWK-290 likes this.
  17. stellarmagic01 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 3
    Change a couple names and dates, drop Obi-wan's one scene, and just roll with it... I could easily see them do that, that's pretty minor ret-cons considering what's been done before.
  18. TtheForceHurts Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2010
    star 3
    That is the reason. It is also the reason why the controversial Detours has been postponed indefinately. TCW was a fine show that will hopefully have it's loose ends tied up in the yet unreleased material. I guess that another contributing factor could have been that Disney wanted to get away from the PT timeline and get the Clone Wars generation ready for the OT/ST timeline.
  19. Vastor Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 2
  20. mattman8907 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 17, 2012
    star 3
    i'm taking this with a grain of salt as always but if this turns out legit then i'll be doing my happy dance. regardless if he plays a Jedi, Sith or Bounty Hunter.
  21. credar Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 18, 2011
    star 3
    [IMG]
    [IMG]
    Maybe? Hopefully? [face_dunno]
    Last edited by credar, Sep 2, 2013
    Revanfan1, cdgodin and Force Smuggler like this.
  22. cdgodin Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 9, 2009
    star 4
    That's a pic of Jagged, right? Because if so, that would make me really happy and optimistic if Jagged was in it, as that would mean possibly Jaina and post-RotJ EU would still be canon.
    credar likes this.
  23. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
  24. credar Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 18, 2011
    star 3
    Hey, you can't blame me for guessing.
  25. Revanfan1 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2013
    star 5
    He does have that look about him, but I'm not sure even J.J. Abrams knows who Jagged Fel is. :p

    If, by chance, he were to play Jag, though...I wouldn't argue.