Speculation Official Sequel Trilogy/Legends Expanded Universe discussion thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII - Spoilers Allowed' started by YoureNotJonesy, Nov 2, 2012.

  1. sluggo1313. Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2013
    star 4

    Not really. First post Vong war several planets, including Coruscant, are different then how they were last seen int he movies, that would hav eto be explained. Also the death of Anakin Solo does have an effect on Jacen, Jaina, Luke, Han and Leia. If those characters are goign to be written in any kind of....consistent way (at least consistent to their EU stories), what happened to Anakin would have to be referenced. Who Mara Jade is would have to be explained. Finally Chewies death would have to be mentioned as well. Trying to quickly explain any major plot point and character elements like that away quickly isn't how yo u tell a good story.

    Second, for any of that to work you HAVE to assume that Abrams and co. WANT to tell a story about Jacen, and Jaina. A story without Chewie, about a Star Wars universe post Vong war etc.... And why would they?
  2. Odolwa Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2013
    star 3
    Can people really not survive without chewie? :p
    Not arguing over EU storyline in the movie, But people act like no chewie = Death of star wars
    Last edited by Odolwa, Jan 24, 2014
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  3. MasterSanders Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 2, 2014
    star 1

    Especially because we really can't understand anything Chewie says and the fact that Chewie's life debt is supposed to be passed on to his family after the fact in the EU, so having another wookiee take his place would not be that big of a deal.... Honestly I think the way Chewie went out was pretty epic and I couldn't see a better way for a character to go out.... I mean saving a bunch of people, a baby, and Anakin then having a moon crash into the planet while he is yelling a wookiee battle cry is a pretty awesome way to go... I could only hope to go out in a blaze of glory like that saving people I care about and other innocent lives on my way out... If I could pick a way to die that's how I'd go out...
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  4. Ryus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    Nope... agree to disagree. It was horrible writting that ignored the whole purpose of the End game of KotOR II which was the Exile was the ying to the yang of Revan, they where equals and the whole character journey of the exile in KotOR II was stepping out of Revan's Shadow and fixing the fallout of what he did/left behind. The final illusion manifested by the Force she fought was her Sith Master Revan on Korriban for crying out loud, how much more inference does one need to realize making her Revan's pet kathhound was a bad call.

    They could have ended Revan and Exile's journey by not having a 300 year time jump and have them sacrifice themselves in favor of their apprentices (Revan for his kid (who imho should have been Satele Shan and not his however many great granddaughter), Exile for the Lost Jedi). Instead they killed off virtually all the supporting characters and just poorly added in Revan and Exile 300 years later.

    KotOR 2 was only dissappointing since it was glitchy as can be and was massivly rushed to launch early with little notice. Which was LFL's fault for rushing the game out 2 YEARS early to make a quick buck during a very crowded christmas game season, with only a month to wrap up what they had already done. Don't judge the game till you play the fan completed version of it on the net via mods (thankfully Obsidian left all the notes of how it was supposed to have ended on the disk, fans found it and completed it for them). KotOR II is beyond any doubt the most intelligently written EU story about the force itself, its game mechanics where a billion times better than KotOR, and it remains the only Star Wars game which really let you be both learning the force and teaching it (you could have up to 5 Jedi Apprentices at once, though 6 where in the game)

    ^THIS. The Exile in KotOR II by the end had discovered just how fully Revan fell to the DS and how manipulative and subtle he was with his plans. She learned he flat out manipulated her into destroying an entire planet for crying out loud and used the resulting lose of the force he knew would happen to her to deaden the light in all her fellow Jedi to give him an army of Sith. Yet weeks later TORs timeline had her back the where she was before KotOR II (just now with the force again) wanting to be his loyal general again.

    The Meetra (horrible name) in TOR is radically a new character just with the same name (well, title since KotOR II never named or genered The Exile).


    Yes, it was a bit much Kreia's gushing... I choose to view it as a proud master bragging about her best student but it was still a bit heavy in places. Kinda made me want to hate Revan on principle once or twice, just like when a parent starts bragging about their perfect kid who was a doctor last week but is now a movie star and they won't shut up about it.

    Darth Nihilus victory wasn't planned to be written as such, the game got forced into early release (2 years early) and the writes where forced to do something really fast. I won't spoil it but the planned ending was way more personal and insanely bold... point being it was a cut fight and the planned ending was greatly extended. The whole Visas's death weakening him wasn't in the planned fight... in fact he asks you to kill her. [face_devil]

    And their was a DS choice kinda on the scale of the bad choice in Fallout III with Megaton... [face_skull]
    Last edited by Ryus, Jan 24, 2014
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  5. Odolwa Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2013
    star 3
    @Ryus Yes i know it was rushed, I'v never played the Fan made full version. But the actual game was just empty and slow.
    You make it sound like Meetra left to hunt down and destroy revan in kotor 2. Did revan not come back to the light, in which meetra knew, and she was off to go join him in his quest wherever it led him? isnt that the end of Kotor 2? (Havent played it in awhile).
  6. Ryus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    KotOR II ends with Kreia presenting three ideas of what you could do next.
    • Leave everything you cared about behind and find out what Revan left (and everyone knew at this point it was the real Sith Empire) to fight and help destroy it as the hole in the force she is (the ending TOR picked but cured her and then killed her off 1/2 a mission later)
    • Stay on Mandalor V to train others to be more neautral force users. (Game was glitched and Malacore V always blew up though)
    • Rebuild the Jedi Order as she was already doing up till now with all her trainees she trained throughout the game already.
    As to Revan he did come back to the light... but Exile knew he had recalled his past too and his old personality could be returning. I wasn't trying to get at her hunting him down and destroy him, in fact just the opposite since Kreia flat out implied together as PARTNERS they'd be unbeatable... yeah, that didn't happen due to retconning Exiles abilities and making her his fangirl again.
    Last edited by Ryus, Jan 24, 2014
  7. Odolwa Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2013
    star 3
    I suppose, At least pick something other then Fangirl :p.
    I didn't really get the 300 years later thing either. I guess since the Jedi and republic were about gone in kotor 2 they wanted to give the story time to rebuild everything and build the sith empires power up so it had a at full strength war. I actually thought Revan was the Emperor while playing TOR at first, Destroying the sith from the inside or something, Then read the book and freed him ingame.
  8. Darth_Henning Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2007
    star 3
    Coruscant was supposed to be rebuilt after the Vong war, in fact, but LOTF the changes are rarely mentioned (if at all)> Why would that be different than in the movies? project one would be ripping down all the Vong stuff. So that's irrelevant.

    Yes, Ithor and some others can't appear. But did we see those anyway?

    Sure, Anakin's death had an effect on all the characters. So did lots of things in the intervening 30 years. Do we need to explain that Jacen's philosophy of the force is based on Vergere's teachings? or his memories of Anakin? no. For the moviegoer it simply IS his philosophy.

    Mara Jade does not need her whole background detailed. When you watched A New Hope, did you have to know everything about where Han came from? We didn't learn that till decades later.

    That leaves Chewie's death to explain.And as mentioned, given that it was taken over by his kids, the explaination for that can be as simple as Han pulling Lowie or Lumpy out of the line of a blaster bolt and saying "your dad died to save my son. Now I'm gonna make sure you live to your old age for him." Or something like that.

    Or hell, retcon that chewie survived Serpendel, and that Fett saved him and gave him to Han (frozen in Carbonite of course) after the war.


    Just because something happened, does not mean that the audience has to be taken through every single painful detail of it.

    High School shaped very much who I am today. 8 years later, I don't think one of my friends knows anything at all about it as I met them later. Its simplly who I am.

    To keep the EU intact, the ST does not need to explain everything. Just not contradict anything.

    Will they? depends what they want to do. Can they? Absolutely.
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  9. TheBBP Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2012
    star 4
    After reading a lot in this thread, I thank God that it sounds like will not be taking the EU into account for much.
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  10. ChildOfWinds Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2001
    star 5
    Odolwa:
    I also have an issue with Force ghosts being around forever to advise Luke and the other Jedi. The PT Jedi didn't have dead Jedi ghosts constantly advising them. Luke is likely the head of the Jedi Order in the ST. He should be the ones making the decisions and running his new Order without old PT Jedi ghosts always interfering. They weren't perfect and didn't have all of the right answers during their lifetimes. It's time for Luke to make his own choices and decisions, even if he too isn't perfect.
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  11. Ryus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4

    People keep bringing this up, long story short the Sith Empires plan was based on the idea that if they built up right over 1000 years theyd over take a stagnating Republic whos had no enemies in 1000 years. The Sith where 700 years into that plan, but now instead of naturally but slowly progressing the Republic took several steps back after a huge war. So plot wise it made no sense the Sith didn't invade then and there as being likely no ahead of the Republicby default, you know being like Sith taking advantage of a opportunity presented by a weakened opponent as is their very nature... they had a unique window of opportunity and just waited around instead. Which is even more odd since when you think about it there was so many Dark Jedi/wannabe Sith left out their for them to recruite to add to their ranks. In terms of game play though to balance things out, all they had to do was have the intel of it be slow to be realized by the Sith and have them a few years late taking advantage of the situation... this gives the bigger Republic a few years to build up, enough to be able to fight back but enough to still lose to the point the Empire invades Corcusant but can't hold it, just like the trailer.

    All they had to do was set the games intro ~18 years later (sorry 13 years after KotOR II, 18 after KotOR 1) but war started sooner just old enough to make Revan's son/daughter be old enough to be one of the main characters (book gave Revan a son, game gave Revan a great x? Granddaughter; so merge the two ideas into older brother and reveal to Revan Bastila was pregnant with a daughter (Satele) when he left). The 18ish time gap is also representive of WWI vs WWII, more than enough time to rebuild but just long enough for the main characters of the past to have new roles. After all it was only 40 years since Exar Kun blowing up half the Republic yet it was almost fully healed by Revan's day (thus making the 300 year time jump appear insanely foolish, its explained in the book and game as the Emperor trying to mind read Revan for intel but the Exiles force ghost giving him extra strength to fight back thus making the Emperor too paranoid to invade... talk about contrived BS). So now the Republic is kinda back but weakened still a bit and the Sith Empire has been taking full advantage of that for the last few years. Also all the Exile's apprentices could be mission giving Jedi Masters (maybe one of them the master of one of the players?).

    They could also have just rework that 1000 year plan of the Sith into it was just about ready anyways and that's why the Mandalorians where sent vs the Republic as the Siths vangaurd to weaken the Republic prior to their invasion a few years before KotOR I. But doing that or not in game Revan and Exile become the PC's second master, akin to Luke meeting Yoda but instead of hiding they have teamed up with the remaining Mandalorian's to attack the Sith, helping them earn revenge for being used as tools... but the Sith have bypassed Canderous and have the Sith just have created a new Mandalor to counter them just like in KotOR 1 where on one of the planets the Republic and Sith where buying up all the mercanaries for their own purposes. The Mandalorians hitting the Sith could have been the reason the Sith where forced to pull back from their invasion, Revan being the genious he is waited till the right moment to use their weakened forces best though.
    Last edited by Ryus, Jan 24, 2014
  12. InterestingLurker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 15, 2011
    star 4
    It's not necessarily the fact that he's dead, it's that his death was intended for no better reason than for shock value and to get people interested in the series.
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  13. newdawn12 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2013
    star 4
    It's when George Lucas jumped ship from the Post ROTJ EU
  14. Beezer Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 5, 2013
    star 4
    It is absurd to think that the casual fan will be satisfied with 1-2 lines of dialog explaining why Chewbacca, an extremely popular character from the original trilogy (and E3, come to think of it) is dead. The casual fan doesn't know a darn thing about the Vong invasion or the moon they dropped on Chewie's head and would not be happy with a line of dialog

    "Leia, it's the 5th anniversary of Chewie's death."

    "Oh gee that's too bad Han... now moving on to other things...."

    [IMG]


    Uh, sorry, but replacing Chewbacca with some previously unseen, unknown Wookiee would be a big deal

    Of course, about 96% of the paying audience wouldn't have the first clue about any of those circumstances. They would just be thinking how lame it was that a major character was killed off screen.
    Last edited by Beezer, Jan 25, 2014
  15. Ryus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    [IMG]
    At least it won't have died in vein!
  16. Darth Chiznuk Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 5
    I agree that Chewie is mostly likely returning for the ST. However, just to play devil's advocate for a second, I don't think it's that big of a deal if he's not back. It's certainly much easier to explain his absence then it would be for Han or Leia or Luke. They did it with Indy's dad in KOTCS and while it was sad that Connery couldn't return I don't think it hurt the film. I could imagine a scene in the Millennium Falcon as they're about to take off and Han takes a long lingering look at his empty co-pilot seat saying something like, "It just it isn't the same without..." (forgive me I'm no dialogue writer :p) Leia places a comforting hand on his shoulder, Han shakes it off and they get on with the story. That said, I don't think that's happening and I'm sure we'll get the ol' Wookiee back!
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  17. newdawn12 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2013
    star 4
  18. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    There's a certain irony in parodying a character who was wrong.

    When Cliegg said "Your mother is dead" - she was actually, still alive.
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  19. Darth_Henning Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2007
    star 3
    It is not absurd. Its assuming that the average person might be able to realize "maybe something's happened in the last 30+ years between movies".

    Maybe I'm over-estimating the general intelligence of the population, but I don't see how that's remotely absurd.

    Its no different than the one line in ANH about "served my father in the clone wars" or Tarkin's one liner about the senate dissolution. Just because they don't go into excruciating detail about everything that's happened before that instant on screen, doesn't mean that an audience can't grasp it.
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  20. newdawn12 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2013
    star 4
    Those were shown, in the PT, audiences would want to see it on film, so you'd need a TV series, movie spin offs, that show the NJO

    We'd need to get episodes 6.1, and so on.

    TCW showed us between 2, and three.

    Rebels, will show us the important things between 3, and 4

    We'd need a NJO series that the casual fan could see on their TV, or on a movie screen.
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  21. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    Maybe the bloodiest war in galactic history is a bit too bloody and big to just gloss over it?

    You either include it or ignore it, no in between.
  22. InterestingLurker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 15, 2011
    star 4
    Difference is, that was fiction. This is reality and the reality is that the post-ROTJ EU will almost certainly be wiped clean or at least most of it will.
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  23. newdawn12 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2013
    star 4
    The best we can expect, is characters, planets, and Ideas
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  24. Force Smuggler Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 5
    It will never be gone as long as there are people still loyal to it.
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  25. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    I'm glad you're here to tell us these things.
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