Discussion Official Sequel Trilogy / Legends / Expanded Universe discussion thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilers Allowed' started by YoureNotJonesy, Nov 2, 2012.

  1. newdawn12 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2013
    star 4
    Now we're entering a new era.

    these are the members of the Story Group
    who work with people from Movies, TV, books, Netflix, comics, and games.

    Kiri Hart - Development Lead
    Carrie Beck - Director, Creative Content Strategy
    Diana Williams - Producer, Franchise Synergy
    Pablo Hidalgo - Brand Communications Manager
    Leland Chee - Keeper of the Holocron
  2. thecurseofchris Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 12, 2013
    star 1
    Do you guys think that the current EU books will stop getting published?
  3. newdawn12 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2013
    star 4
    We'll see as we get closer to the new movies.
  4. Beezer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 5, 2013
    star 4
    Oh, you'd be amazed at how many people didn't know this would happen. I have had many arguments to that end over the past few months.
  5. BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 5
    I don't think the post ROTJ EU is going to be utterly decimated, I think there's a good chance that there will be many cherry-picked elements used to flesh out the world, if not be beholden to how they were used in the EU Exactly As Exactly As Their Wookipedia Article Describes Them Exactly. TCW used a lot of EU, it just didn't take it as gospel, but a source, which is what I think the ST will do.

    As a wise Architect once said to his unknowing pawn:

    [IMG]
    Last edited by BigAl6ft6, Feb 17, 2014
  6. Beezer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 5, 2013
    star 4
    They have to honor contracts already in place and deals already signed but yes, I think the current post-ROTJ EU will stop being published in its current form. I doubt they'll do much to KOTOR since there's really no need to make any changes there, but the post-ROTJ EU is in for a major overhaul.
    Mange, Dra--- and TheBBP like this.
  7. The Kulvax Sisters Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2013
    star 2
    I personally do not believe they will bother treading into the Old Republic 'Old Sith Wars' eras and whatnot, it would not do them well to retcon the KotOR series and SWTOR, BiOWare/Obsidian has tried very very hard to create a perfectly consistent timeline for back then, given that EA just got the decade long license, it's probably a good idea not to PO BiOWare considering how much work they could do in co-operation with the Story Group to set up New-Star Wars.

    I reckon Pre-TPM is largely safe, with some elements being changed or dropped, I also don't believe that they'd be stupid enough to end TCW with one of the biggest retcons of all time: Korriban into Moriband, there is likely some confusion or something else going on.
    Iron_lord likes this.
  8. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
  9. cronedoggy Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 1
    What terrible news. I might buy the rest of the books that I'm missing before they go out of print.

    p.s. Regarding the darth maul argument, was no one convinced by my link showing that people in real life sometimes do survive being severed in half?
  10. Pro Scoundrel Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 4
    Not to start up the argument again, but that guy had his legs severed, he wasn't cut in half from the ribcage down. Losing limbs is very different from severed spine and the loss of several major organs.
    Jedi Merkurian and EHT like this.
  11. Dra--- Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 30, 2012
    star 5
    So I think we're actually agreeing, but saying it in different ways. I'm saying that fantastic events are just fine in the fantasy genre as long as there are good narrative (not realist) reasons for them. You're saying the same thing, but seem to want to argue that the measuring stick isn't a good story, but for the sake of realism.

    Ultimately what we're both arguing for is that the world should be believable. But here's where we may part company -- what's believable is a function of the fantasy world logic, not a real world logic (American, Western), and the SW world logic (its general laws of reality, its metaphysics) is fundamentally different from ours. What's realistic in the GFFA is different from what's realistic in contemporary America.

    So what's unrealistic in SW? Something that works against SW logic. Anything that works against SW logic would be bad storytelling.

    Let's look at Maul as an example. SW logic tells us that Sith can survive catastrophic bodily injury if their hate is powerful enough. It also tells us that technology is such that it equates almost to magic (see General Grievous; see bacta tanks; see Darth Vader's cyborg body). These factors defy our real world logic, but they're consistent with SW logic.

    Even more important, once Maul was resurrected (so to speak), most people (imo) thought his story on TCW was powerful. To me, that's the ultimate justification in storytelling, especially fantasy: is the story that results good enough to warrant the fantastic event?

    So to answer @Pro Scoundrel's question: for me, it's acceptable to bring characters back in SW if 1) it's consistent with SW logic and 2) if the story that results is worth telling. That probably rules out resurrecting every single person who's ever died because that story eventually becomes harder to make interesting or fun. But those should be the qualities we're interested in. Not whether something might happen in America 2014. That's a different genre.
    Last edited by Dra---, Feb 18, 2014
  12. Pro Scoundrel Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 4
    I totally agree with this, I simply disagree that Maul's survival was consistent with SW logic. Example : Vader needs cybernetics to survive. Vader was rescued immediately after he received his injuries. If the same had happened with Maul I would have less trouble accepting his survival. Maul, however, had far worse injuries than Vader, and never received medical help for over a decade. He simply created spider legs from junk (they aren't cybernetic according to Filoni) and willed himself to live. That shouldn't be possible unless he's Darth Plagueis. And even then it's debatable whether it's possible.

    The point is that no one had returned from an injury that extreme in the films or TCW before. Only the EU had done things like that, and I didn't like it there either.
    Last edited by Pro Scoundrel, Feb 18, 2014
  13. TheBBP Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2012
    star 4
  14. Darth Chiznuk PT Trivia Master / Game Host

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 5
    Maybe he is Plagueis... Dun... Dun... Dun!!! [face_hypnotized]:p
    Ryus, Immortiss, Dra--- and 1 other person like this.
  15. Pro Scoundrel Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 4
    Well, then that explains everything! :D
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  16. TheBBP Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2012
    star 4
    There are more odd things that are canon in the Star Wars universe than Darth Maul surviving...

    Dengar lived with a computer that replaced his hypothalamus gland. Among with other things in the Star Wars universe not even including the Dark Side of the force, it is not all that unlikely that Darth Maul could have been surgically junked back together and was able to live. B'omarr Monks literally had themselves (their brains) surgically detached from the rest of their body because they found their body as useless and lived on for centuries in jars.
  17. Dra--- Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 30, 2012
    star 5
    I don't think we've been told exactly how Maul survived his injuries. And frankly, I wouldn't want a technical reason. One could always be invented, but that's missing the point IMO. The point is that this is fantasy, and in fantasy, all we need to know is that his hate allowed him to survive. To me, that's powerful narrative logic that trumps the trivial details. After all, this isn't a How To manual; it's Star Wars.
  18. Pro Scoundrel Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 4
    But, he wasn't. The examples you're giving are like Grevious, medical procedures that people had done to them. According to Filoni, Mauls spider half isn't cybernetic. He received no medical or technological assistance in over a decade. [face_dunno]
    Last edited by Pro Scoundrel, Feb 18, 2014
  19. Dra--- Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 30, 2012
    star 5
    Amazing what hate can do.:cool:
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  20. TheBBP Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2012
    star 4
    We don't know if he has had medical procedures or not. For all we know, he has enough knowledge in physiology to tie up the necessary parts to get by.
    Dra--- likes this.
  21. Dra--- Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 30, 2012
    star 5
    He might have knowledge to do it, but that's exactly the wrong way to approach this imo (and yours too probably). :) That's giving in to this unnecessary desire for realism when all we need to say is it was hate and the darkside. That's so much more interesting that Maul was a Dr.
    InterestingLurker and TheBBP like this.
  22. Pro Scoundrel Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 4
    That's why I said "The point is that no one had returned from an injury that extreme in the films or TCW before. Only the EU had done things like that, and I didn't like it there either."
    They talk about it some in the TCW special features. Now you're going back to the "It's fantasy, anything goes" argument. That's the opposite of narrative logic, it's narrative Deus Ex Machina. Logic IS the "trivial details".
    Last edited by Pro Scoundrel, Feb 18, 2014
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  23. Dra--- Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 30, 2012
    star 5
    It's not anything goes. It goes exactly with SW logic.

    Trivial details are importing in unnecessary details from our world when the SW logic is enough.
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  24. Pro Scoundrel Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 4
    I'm sorry @Dra---, but it doesn't go with SW logic, IMO. If so then Vader shouldn't need the suit, Dooku should have survived, Darth Plagueis is nothing special, etc. If Maul can survive an injury like that, with no help, then no sith should ever die, ever. And that hasn't been the case, and doesn't interest me.

    Regardless, we're never going to see eye to eye on this issue, but that's cool. To each their own. Star Wars gives different things to different people. :)
    Last edited by Pro Scoundrel, Feb 18, 2014
  25. Darth Chiznuk PT Trivia Master / Game Host

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 5
    Star Wars logic or not I thought Maul's survival was a terrible idea and executed even worse. I'm fine with Plagueis being able to manipulate midi-chlorians in order to keep himself alive but a Sith Lord shouldn't be able to survive a catastrophic injury through hate. If a Sith can keep himself alive through hate while a Jedi can only manage becoming Force ghosts then forget the light side I'm gonna be a Sith Lord, baby! [face_devil]:cool: