Discussion Official Sequel Trilogy / Legends / Expanded Universe discussion thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilers Allowed' started by YoureNotJonesy, Nov 2, 2012.

  1. Pro Scoundrel Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 4
    Sigh. There's a difference between realism, and fantasy taken to the point of absurdity. If I wanted realism, I wouldn't tolerate sound in space.
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  2. Beezer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 5, 2013
    star 4
    +1. If Maul can come back to life, why not Padme? Why not Tyranus? Why not Sidious?

    It was clear that the writer of Episode 1 - a guy named George Lucas - intended that to be Maul's death. Anything else is just a cheap stunt to sell books and help TV ratings.
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  3. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    Why care about what happens, when it could be retconned or magicked away in a heartbeat?
    Pro Scoundrel likes this.
  4. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 7
    He landed in water. And, it's implied, used the Force to keep himself alive after being cut in half.
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  5. Ryus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    He used the darkside to cheat death... that.... argh.... cheater. How dare he! I wanted realism! This doesn't fit the canon at all! When was the last time a darksider cheated death... oh wait, never mind. :p

    Not that story. [face_tee_hee] It happened in TCW and therefore will survive into the new canon.. Pablo stated already that TCW and the 6 movies are canon, and he's on the Story Group ;)
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  6. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 7

    The missing piece (how Maul got from Naboo to Lotho Minor (where Savage finds him) in the first place - is covered in the TCW comic Darth Maul: The Sith Hunters.

    I could see this kind of TCW "tie-in" material, surviving.
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  7. Oberst Hans Landa Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 12, 2014
    star 2
    367 pages? [face_laugh] wow...Well, I am not planning on reading every single post, so I am sure this has already been brought up a number of times: I am one of those rare Star Wars fans who has never ever read a single EU book. I did try to read Shadows of the Empire once, but I just could not get into it. Knowing that it had not been penned by George Lucas himself turned me off to it and to everything having to do with the EU. Maybe I am missing out, maybe I am not. However, I hope Episode VII is an original story. I do not want to feel that any EU book is a required or mandatory reading so that I can understand what is going on. Basing Episode VII on a EU book or making references to things that happen in the EU, that only those who've read them all or most of them will understand is a little bit unfair to fans like me, to say the least. I am just not into reading Star Wars books. I am more of a John Grisham and Stephen King fan myself. My 2 cents.
    Last edited by Oberst Hans Landa, Feb 15, 2014
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  8. Ryus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    I meant Maul surviving not the landing in watee bit and getting to Lotho Minor but yes, its very likely "tie in" stories to TCW will survive the Story Group and remain canon. Very good point.
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  9. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    Whenever you revive some character it becomes easier in the future. If they are not careful, the future of SW is that of every Marvel comic run.

    Out of villains? No matter, just revive Magneto for the umpteenth time.

    Xavier is dead and you want him for a story? The same.

    While I still like the X-men, this kills a lot of tension and interesting consequences, unfortunately. Illyana tragically dies, leaving Collosus a broken wreck? No matter, she's going to be back in a couple years, ruining the previous story.

    If they continue on like that, some guy in the future will want to reuse Palpatine or Windu or even Obi-Wan.
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  10. Ryus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    You left out Obi-wan finding out that guy who created the story cheating and letting Vader survive being immolated and having all his limbs hacked off! He started a bad trend!

    Seriously though... Star Wars has never done this to the same level as Marvel and dark side force users using the force to extend life kinda is the plot... I see your point and agree to a point, but sometimes writers just kill off characters then realize they could have done more with that character... if you run a franchise long enough odds are someone who 'died' will have turned out not to have.
    Last edited by Ryus, Feb 15, 2014
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  11. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    They never went as far as with Maul, resurrecting a previously dead guy in the flesh. I don't want this example become indicative of a trend.


    If you can't think of a better way to continue the story than that then maybe you shouldn't be allowed to continue it in the first place! This is the same kind of thinking that led to all the KJA books. SW deserves better than every hack getting a free pass to abuse every tired trope in the book.
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  12. Ryus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    I hate KJAs Star Wars run with a passion... that said while Darth Maul's return is in one sense a travisty it was written hundreds of fold better than anything KJA did with Star Wars. Darth Maul was the best part of season 4&5 of TCW imho. Maul returning was a hack idea but its execution was brilliant... and Star Wars has comitted practically all of the tropes in the book before Mauls return I gotta say either your ignoring them just to make your point seem grander and have more weight or this issue just is a more passionate subject matter to you to the point your making it out to be grander than previous sins done in Star Wars.... such as everything KJA has ever written. :p
  13. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    I actually agree that the execution was brilliant, and in fact I love the character of Maul in TCW. He was 100x more interesting than in TPM.

    But I still think of it as a sort-of alternate universe.

    And SW didn't commit to all the tropes in the book. Some common tropes like time travel or zombies were notably absent. A creative choice was made not to use some of the tropes. A pretty wise choice imo. Because of the choice, the epos of SW could really unfold in a way that would not have been possible otherwise.
    In SW movies, consequences of events are usually very heavy and permanent. They are not undone all the time like in the EU or marvel comics. Character choices have extreme impact.

    It's also pretty funny to state that SW was made of tropes. Of course it was. Everything is made of tropes. But there are overused and destructive (=tired) tropes and there are good ones. They're not all the same and they certainly shouldn't all be used.
    Last edited by Darth_Pevra, Feb 15, 2014
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  14. Ryus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    Uh, incorrect on both examples... Star Wars has done both time travel (kinda) and zombies (kinda, once even in The Clone Wars) before

    Incorrect on both counts

    Time Travel:
    1. Flow Walking http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Flow-walking
    2. Time Travel http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Time_travel
    Zombies:
    1. Zombies http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Zombie
    Awaits your reaction...
    [IMG]
    ...This could be fun...
    Last edited by Ryus, Feb 15, 2014
  15. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    Yes in EU. I thought from context it was clear I wasn't talking about EU? I mean I put the term "SW movies" into my last post. According to Pablo the stories in the EU are not canon anymore anyway.

    But yes, I could do without all that stuff in the EU. It's one of the reasons why I don't respect it much. It's what happens when you try to milk a universe dry. At some point they run out of ideas.
    Last edited by Darth_Pevra, Feb 15, 2014
  16. Ryus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    She says in the EU thread of all places, lmao... And to needlessly repeat it, you may treat TCW as non canon but it is canon none the less and they did a take on Zombies and a place where time didn't exist at the end of the Mortis arc.
    Last edited by Ryus, Feb 15, 2014
  17. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    It's not the EU thread, it's the
    Official Sequel Trilogy/Expanded Universe discussion thread


    Generated to discuss the influence of the EU on the sequels (or non-influence) and vice versa. Please stop your stupid trolling. It's not my fault your precious EU got the axe but I'm not going on pretending like it matters. Yes there were zombies in a kids cartoon but guess what, it is a kids cartoon! Surprise, surprise.

    Mortis was a dream land. Of course the laws or realities don't apply there!
    Last edited by Darth_Pevra, Feb 15, 2014
  18. EHT New Films Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Sep 13, 2007
    star 6
    OK guys, please play nice. @Ryus : @Darth_Pevra is correct when she says "the Official Sequel Trilogy/Expanded Universe discussion thread was generated to discuss the influence of the EU on the sequels (or non-influence) and vice versa."
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  19. Ryus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    @EHT The Clone Wars isn't EU according to Lee & Pablo, both of whom are on the Story Group, therefore her counter argument is a moot point and irrelivent to the discussion. TCW has played with both Zombie Tropes (when they returned to Geonosis) and time moving at different/nonexistent speeds (Mortis arc) which she said previously were only EU after previously saying where never EU tropes, I was just pointing out what she didn't know/forgot. I was just pointing out @Darth_Perva was incorrect with her examples of Star Wars never using those tropes. My point was she can say she doesn't like those EU elements all she want but they've already become highest level canon, will they make it into the ST is unlikely imo but they are series canon themes now none the less as no matter either of our opinions of them. For the record I hated both of them, but they are still canon.
    Last edited by Ryus, Feb 15, 2014
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  20. EHT New Films Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Sep 13, 2007
    star 6
    OK, fair enough. Just wanted to make sure everyone is getting along, and to point out that this thread is only for EU discussion as it pertains to the ST.
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  21. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    I said "timetravel" not "time moving at strange speeds". I am not aware how this happened in Mortis, which isn't even part of reality. You are rewording my statements to suit your argument. Nonetheless, you also confused nitpicking with responding to the points I was making.

    I forgot about the zombies in TCW, alright, but that doesn't excuse you getting all pissy on me.

    And I've made it abundantly clear that when I am talking about SW I am not including the EU. Which, btw., TCW is still part of! Expanded universe = expansion of the movieverse. The term has nothing to do with canon or non-canon.

    "The Expanded Universe (or EU for short) encompasses every one of the officially licensed, fictional background of the Star Wars universe, outside of the six Star Wars films produced by George Lucas."
  22. Dra--- Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 30, 2012
    star 5
    Basically, people are using the slippery slope argument to argue against the fantasy elements of Star Wars. But if you understand how this fallacy works, it supposes that if something is possible, it is likely to happen. But possibility doesn't correlate to probability. So just because characters can be brought back, doesn't mean they will be, and more so, doesn't mean they all will be.

    In fantasy, the best reason for bringing someone back from death is if it creates a good story. If it doesn't, then it shouldn't be done. It creates a good story if the fantasy elements are evoking mythological, allegorical, or psychological elements in an interesting way.

    And yes, if you make fantasy absurd, then it's absurd. But that's just stating something obvious -- fantasy and absurdism are distinct genres. You want fantasy to be fantastic without losing its power, so it's probably a mistake for it to grow too absurd (unless that captures some human universal).

    Which brings us back to the most important element: fantasy works as long as the story is well told. The human experience is more important in this cause than some knee-jerk rationalist need for realism.
    Last edited by Dra---, Feb 15, 2014
  23. Fastback Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2014
    star 1
    I think we all have our opinions and some here think they are more right than others. We can all read into quotes of who said this who said that. Disney and JJ I'm sure are working hard to make sure Star Wars can continue successfully. They have a plethora of Star Wars knowledge wether it be from the movies, Lucas's pre-written script of VII, EU books etc. I feel that if Lucas approved of EU books, games, anamation than it is all canon. Yes some of it is crazy and does not make sense to have in the movies and thats fine but there are tons of great things to add. I would if I was JJ is do what makes sense for all to make a great movie that will continue what we feel in love with from OT and EU for the future of Star Wars.
  24. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    Fantasy needs a chain around its neck because it is a wild beast.

    The assumption that I work from is that hollywood is full of hacks. You are free to disagree/believe otherwise, but no fancy words will make me think differently on the state of the "dream factory".
    Dra--- likes this.
  25. Fastback Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2014
    star 1
    Very true and Lucas did say that the greek mythology played a role in his creating Star Wars. You have many gods in greek,roman etc mythology who die and come back and this plays into the fantasy world to keep going and going.
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