Discussion Official Sequel Trilogy / Legends / Expanded Universe discussion thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilers Allowed' started by YoureNotJonesy, Nov 2, 2012.

  1. Ryus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    So let me get this straight... you prefer it more when you don't pronounce it right? :confused:

    Great job selling the 'new' name... :oops::p

    Yes, many EU fans are clearly consciously seeking its survival and many non-EU fans are subconsciously seeking its destruction. Personally Im in the burn the bulk of it to the ground, but cherry pick elements (like all comic book reboots do). Not only to appease fans but since if it aint broke dont fix it... now a lot of the EU is broke and I admit this as a huge fan of it but Korriban imo and subjective opinion isnt broke but one of its best examples of both a great name and idea. Like the names Ewok and Sith its become known by many even though it was never in the movie (Sith was absent in the OT, not the PT though, yet known by many well before the prequels)

    Now Moriband isnt bad, by its not great either, if you're going to replace it go with something better at least imho. Next off changing Korriban to Moriband is a very derp reboot name choice... its blantently obvious what it was and serves the same story purpose (like painting Robocop black for the reboot then making a race joke about it, its like 'really? Why did you bother doing that?' K.I.S.S. and dont unnessicarily fix things just to signify a reboot, fix things when it serves a plot purpose (such as tonning down superhero power levels if you want a more realistic film)). All editing stuff for no plot purpose in a franchise does is annoy a percentage of hard core followers, casual fans wont know the difference either way so its of no benifit to them. I honestly dont care if George had a almost identical name in mind, not cause I disrespect his choice but since he himself set the president of using a more known EU name vs his own choice of name when he kept Corsucant's EU name though he totally changed what it looked like.

    One doesnt need to rename everything just to signify changes to canon. That like saying lets rename Gotham in the next Batman reboot...just cause its a new story and our fans might get confused. 8-} When in reality the new kid fans wont know the old stories and old fans have been through so many other reboots (in this case EU reboot, film no reboot) they'll naturally expect details/things to change (points at PT and TCW, even they kept the names even if they changed a ton else though)

    Look I'll get over a name change for the most part, and yes Im just debating this since there is no news atm... that said Korriban just sounds better imho, is very popular with fans therefore using it hypes fans, and Moriband only sounds cool and dark if you dont pronounce it like it phenetically sounds... so why not spell it like you want it pronounced (just due to the similar words... if so... :rolleyes:)
    Last edited by Ryus, Feb 22, 2014
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  2. BigAl6ft6 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 5
    They change a planet name and the franchise is dead to you? Huh.
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  3. Ryus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    Maybe they had friends there? :p
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  4. Mystery Roach Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2004
    star 4
    @Ryus I don't think either pronunciation would be technically wrong. It all depends on your dialect, and until I hear otherwise I can imagine it either way. And for the record, I didn't say that was the only way it sounded good, just that I preferred it. If that really is what it will be called (which is by no means a sure thing), I'm sure I'll get used to whatever pronunciation they use as soon as I actually hear it said on TCW. Of course I really couldn't care less what anything is called in the EU, and if Lucas decided he liked another name better, then my inclination is to never have a problem with that. All in all, it's a very minor thing to me, especially when you consider that the current EU is most likely in the bin anyway, so it really wouldn't even be a retcon... just a new planet that happens to bear similarities to one from some non-canon stories.
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  5. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    Maybe Moriband is completely different than Korriban in terrain and vegetation and so on? I find it funny that people already call the switch unnecessary without even knowing what Moriband is like. They probably changed the name to avoid the confusion that would come with reusing a name that was used for a completely different planet.
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  6. Randwulf Crescentmoon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2013
    star 4
    Hey, I will have you know I am a linguistic chameleon, and for me accurate enunciation of letters can range anywhere from a/ah to r/rr (trilled r). When I spot a name like Moriband I naturally ease into a Morribahnd elocution. What can I say, it is like second nature to me. [face_liarliar]

    So there... :p
    No doubt, any material can be improved upon, but my only query is this, when replacing a familiar entity such as the name Korriban (or anything else relatively well-known) is there ever anything that can truly adequately substitute for the former in the hearts of fans? I mean is it possible that had the name Bowser never been coined previously, and it was used in lieu of Korriban, that it too would have been cast asunder because we as fans are too close to the source material to be able to make unbiased appraisals?

    No matter, either way, just seems to me as if any term besides the original would have our collective noses turned and eyes rolled without a moments hesitation, especially at this stage of the game... this far developed into the Star Wars EU content.
    Ditto.
    Completely understand the grounds for utilizing such a popular term as Korriban in light of the potential EU go bye-bye moment that, at least, in some capacity looms ominously just over the horizon. Certainly, Korriban is already there to use, with little to no complications and a rather avid fandom it lends itself to the creative process, whilst Moriband is similar in vein, but not in stature to its' counterpart, Korriban.

    Honestly, with the rumored grand scheme being that of rewriting Star Wars' history we thought we knew, a part of me wants them to go full-speed ahead, buck the system and hit redo on the EU, but another part of me is willing to overlook the inclusion of the planet name Korriban into official canon for two reasons. 1.) Korriban is a cool name, and one of the better things to come out of the EU imo, and 2.) If in spinning new yarns the right thing to do is to extend an olive branch to the ardent EU fans, who paid a handsome fortune, then so be it... that is the right thing to do...

    ...but another aspect of this Moriband/Korriban stuff is this, what happens if Korriban were chosen to make peace with EU fandom, perhaps to even cash in on the EU? Where does it end? When George Lucas decided to incorporate Coruscant into the PT it was at a time when he could get away with not having done so because the EU was, technically, canon. A logically sound argument can be made that with Disney, potentially, putting the kibosh on the EU, the inclusion of certain EU elements will bring doubtless joy, but it is reasonable to assume that exclusion of EU material can breed contempt and create a firestorm that would perhaps be best to get out of the way now with the dropping of EU material altogether.
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  7. The Kulvax Sisters Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2013
    star 2
    No the future of the franchise would be dead to me, I like creative writing, being able to work in the bounds of pre-established storylines, I don't expect them to do this with VII, but by meaninglessly retconning Korriban and essentially retconning some of the best parts of the EU along with it, for no good reason? that's lazy writing.
  8. bstnsx704 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2013
    star 3

    I see it as the exact opposite. Getting rid of the EU and "pre-established storylines" allows the writers to be more creative and original with their work, and thus less lazy.
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  9. Ryus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    More creative and original doesn't always equal better writing or execution, especially if they get too cleaver for their own good... like when George Lucas overwrote the OT by changing what we knew when he revealed it in the PT. Lazy, clearly not... should it have been done, definatly not (I still facepalm every time I see Chewie carrying Yoda on his back but then calling Obi-wan an old fossil in the very next movie for example)

    I get your argument but it assumes "creative and orginial" is always good, and "lazy" is always bad. Personally I feel using some pre-established elements of the EU can (stressed) far more momentium and energy to VII than being "creative and orginial" with nearly identical concepts (in this case 'a new abandoned Sith Homeworld with nearly the same name as the previous').
    Last edited by Ryus, Feb 23, 2014
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  10. DanielUK Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 4
    For all we know this could be a different planet or the Jedi Order renamed Korriban after the apparent 'defeat' of the Sith.

    I'm all in favour of burning 90% of the EU to the ground, burying its ashes and dancing on the grave.
    Last edited by DanielUK, Feb 23, 2014
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  11. The Kulvax Sisters Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2013
    star 2
    I couldn't disagree more, the EU is a vastly rich history of the Star Wars universe, randomly coming up with your own stuff and ignoring Lucas' original grand vision is only in detriment to Star Wars, whilst I don't agree a lot of the time with how hands on he can be, when he works with James Luceno to create stuff like Rise of Darth Vader and Darth Plagueis, they always turn out to be stunning pieces of work that really validate the quality of the EU.

    By just nuking the entire EU and starting over again, i seriously think Star Wars will be in big trouble, not financially of course but creatively, this won't make things better, it will only be Disney's vision of Star Wars instead of George Lucas' vision of Star Wars.

    Whilst there are certainly elements of the EU that are OOT and could do with some cleaning up, most of that exists in the Post-ROTJ EU, that being retconned is inevitable, otherwise it just isn't required of the writers, they have a very well working current history of the Star Wars universe in the EU, especially stuff like the story-lines of Revan and Bane, it has been very carefully meshed together, they have plenty of room to be creative in, by borrowing from the EU, they aren't restraining themselves, only enriching the Star Wars universe as a whole, which is what the new Story Group is meant to do.
  12. DanielUK Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 4
    You have to remember the movies, TCW and Rebels are aimed at the wider audience and not fans. That's why the EU is irrelevant - it's purely for fans. The ST will be a nightmare to produce if the causal audience require additional reading material and an hour 'catch up' at the start of Episode VII.

    Star Wars won't be in trouble if the the EU is 'nuked'; nobody would notice it.
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  13. TheBBP Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2012
    star 5
    The EU is not Lucas' vision of Star Wars. There is a reason why he repeatedly and consistently declared that the books and comics and such were a separate entity from his movies. He took ideas from the EU but never was beholden to them. That tradition will continue on.
  14. Ryus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    ^fixed


    You have to remember Both the PT and TCW used EU elements to their advantage. Yes it changed tons of it... but so too did the EU itself. Elements of the EU helped sell and drive fans to both the PT and more so to TCW.

    Look to Marel's Agents of Shield the first nine episode where a mess not only due to boring characters but a lack of a deeper universe. Even the non comic fans wanted a deeper universe filled with characters from it... they just wanted them more accessable in TV format. Now the latest episode are bringing in these deeper universe characters and people are starting to enjoy the show a bit more, even though the characters are still boring. What the EU brings is a vast pool of intelectual properties (characters, timelines, locations, starships, etc...) they should being using them as tools to draw in more casual viewers, not just being creative for creativeness sake and failing to capitalize on a huge asset
    Last edited by Ryus, Feb 23, 2014
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  15. DanielUK Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 4
    Tiny, tiny elements were used - which probably went unnoticed by the general audience. The EU is just creative ideas, which the majority are never used by GL or others. It has never, ever been considered cannon or apart of the original Star Wars universe. See this quote:

    "The EU is a well of ideas, and there's what's on screen. They don't live in the same universe. Everyone wants to think so, I know… We just need to think of it all as a creative collection of fun ideas separate from what George Lucas has made."
    ―Dave Filoni articulates his opinion and treatment of the Expanded Universe
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  16. bstnsx704 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2013
    star 3

    Thing is, the EU is not, and never has been, Lucas' "grand vision" for Star Wars. The only things that he himself ever considered to be his "vision" for the Saga are the six films, The Clone Wars, and, according to the sit-down interviews with Lucas and Kathleen Kennedy, the transferring of Lucasfilm from his hands to Disney's. The Expanded Universe was never much more than cash in Lucas' pocket that occasionally presented some ideas that he liked (Coruscant, for example) and adapted into the films.
    Last edited by bstnsx704, Feb 23, 2014
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  17. The Kulvax Sisters Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2013
    star 2
    You clearly don't have a grasp on how much Lucas gets involved with the most important parts of the EU, Dark Empire? he oversaw that and even suggested that they bring the Emperor back instead of Darth Vader, the Force Unleashed(only the first) he got involved partially and stated himself that it was an integral part of the story of Darth Vader, Rise of Darth Vader and Darth Plagueis are both Luceno projects he oversaw.

    I could go on and on from here, but Lucas isn't nearly as detached from the EU as many would like to think he is.
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  18. The Kulvax Sisters Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2013
    star 2
    His personal Star Wars saga, no the EU is not a part of it, I know, I've been a fan of it all since the special edition VHS boxsets, but he does add his own elements to the EU to it, because he would prefer the EU in large part to conform to his ideas, like my previous post has shown, he gets involved a lot more than people think he does, in the most important EU projects.
  19. TheBBP Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2012
    star 5
    Providing input and/or direction does not equal making it canon.

    No. But the EU is as detached from canon as he says it is.
  20. The Kulvax Sisters Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2013
    star 2
    I never argued that this was the case, merely that his vision and wisdom has been imparted in the creation of the EU, do you really think that Lucas is going to have anywhere near as much power in Disney Star Wars? no he won't, he's already been over-ruled repeatedly on a number of different subjects according to reports.
  21. TheBBP Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2012
    star 5
    You are crazy if you think that Disney paid billions for the brand and hired Abrams to adapt pre-written EU stories.
  22. The Kulvax Sisters Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2013
    star 2
    Did I say that? no, this is all about retcons and whether or not they have a significant point to them, if you would please read my previous posts instead of making assumptions, I clearly stated that I fully expect the Post-ROTJ EU to be retconned in the wake of the Sequel Trilogy, is there a possibility that we might see some EU elements? I wouldn't cross that out, just like there was with the PT, I do however think that when retcons can be avoided, such as when they'd make little difference, then they should be, because why just completely destroy the work that has already been done for you, instead of adapting it to a larger vision? change it and mold it sure, but don't just nuke it for 'creative freedom'.
    Last edited by The Kulvax Sisters, Feb 23, 2014
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  23. Mystery Roach Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2004
    star 4
    I think you're overestimating Lucas's involvement with the EU. For instance, Luceno said he got exactly one email from Lucas about Darth Plagueis, which was a response to a question about whether he had to be human, to which Lucas replied that he could be a Muun. And TFU has already been overwritten by Lucas himself with TCW and declared non-canon. Giving a suggestion or input here and there is hardly being heavily involved. Lucas has been very clear over time about the fact that he doesn't read the EU and considers it to be a separate universe from his.
    Last edited by Mystery Roach, Feb 23, 2014
  24. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    Ah, so the whole "Lucas and Luceno collaborated over the Darth Plagueis novel" is a marketing stunt by LFL. Good to know.
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  25. Circular Logic SWTV Interview Host

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2013
    star 4
    So, moving on to a slightly different topic...

    Does anyone else that saw the Rebels character introduction videos think that the 14-year old Force-sensitive Ezra Bridger could appear int he ST? It seems based on his age (the same age as Luke and Leia) that he could possibly appear as an elder Jedi during the time of the ST, perhaps as a part of Luke Skywalker's fledgling New Jedi Order? Ezra's name also may have some significance when we think of links, i.e. "Bridger" on first glance might imply that Ezra is meant to act as a "bridge" between the PT and OT eras, having been born just after the start of the Empire. Or, as I'm suspecting, it might have double meaning and also imply that his character could be a "bridge" between Rebels and the ST (this has been discussed in the Baddie thread regarding the Inquisitor). Of course, if Ezra does show up in the ST, I only expect him as a minor character, one who was eventually (re)discovered by Luke following the events of RotJ (assuming Ezra survives Rebels, which I'm inclined to think he's much more likely to survive than his mentor Kanan), and then trained to be a full-fledged Jedi Knight. Ezra will probably just be a cameo character added as a wink-wink nod-nod to fans of Rebels, but his actual background would be non-essential to the overall ST plot.
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