Discussion Official Sequel Trilogy / Legends / Expanded Universe discussion thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilers Allowed' started by YoureNotJonesy, Nov 2, 2012.

  1. Ganger Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 1999
    star 4
    I'd rather have Hayden Cristensen as ghost Anakin that Chewie being killed by a moon as canon for the next movies.
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  2. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 8
    I don't really care one way or another, but I may be avoiding the spoiler forum before any actual spoilers start appearing simply because of the "my brother's girlfriend's sister's roommate's dog's vet ran into someone in the bathroom who knows an extra who said this" phenomenon.
  3. Beezer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 5, 2013
    star 4
    I agree with this 100%, and I just wish more people saw the light. The EU fans defend their continuity to their dying breath, as if all of a sudden a good book becomes a bad one because it is no longer canon.

    No matter what the story group decides, Heir to the Empire is still a great story and Vector Prime still bites.

    Heh heh.... um, I think blatantly ripping off Star Trek would pretty much be met with 99.99% disapproval amongst Star Wars fandom.


    +1 +1 +1. No way they would have even taken the project if they were handcuffed into accepting all the ridiculousness that has occurred in the post-ROTJ EU.



    I don't even consider that an update; that's just the way it has always been. When Lucas made the prequels, he threw the EU completely out the window. All those backstories we thought we knew were toast. I have no doubt the post-ROTJ EU will get the same treatment.

    No need to bash fans of the Expanded Universe [face_peace]
    Last edited by Jedi Merkurian, Mar 26, 2014
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  4. Rebel_Loyaltist Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2001
    star 3

    I'm surprised this hasn't gotten mentioned more throughout the course of this thread. When the prequels were being made, Lucas did what we wanted with them and didn't limit the story to what had been written in novels or comics already. Now the key difference here is the Lucas had told writers they couldn't explore events that preceded Episode IV to the point where it intersected with Anakin Skywalker's life, but still, bits and pieces were mentioned here and there. Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the Clone Wars get mentioned as having happened when Anakin was a child and that the clones were the bad guys in the conflict? I'm sure there are plenty of other examples. It's why they started telling stories thousands of years before the OT, because they wanted to make a back story (Albeit, and extreme back story) to them.

    TO ME (Yes, to me, people), it would make no sense to make the sequels and have them kowtowed to every book, comic, novel, short story etc. that the EU has produced. Doing that would make a very limited scale movie and would leave the entire movie going populace confused because they have no idea about most of what's going on, how they got there, or why said characters don't do certain things (Just so they can fall in line with events that take place in the EU after Episode IX). That wouldn't be good movie writing, storytelling or branding.

    The whole idea of making some sort of Force related event to make an alternate-universe to me is not Star Warsy and seems like a desperate attempt by those who wish to see the entirety of the EU saved. It's almost a slippery slope of ways to keep the EU completely intact. Someone mentioned that the EU could be a holodrama or a dream sequences or something. This literally can continue until there's just a plethora of asinine theories out there.

    TO ME (Again, the all important "to me"), it seems much easier and sensible just to take concepts, characterizations, certain events and use them and then come up with a new Post ROTJ timeline (Plus dump things from before that contradict the movies directly). Say the Rebels were available to reform the Republic by 6 ABY, achieved peace by 8 ABY and said peace was destroyed by the new movie threat in 28 ABY, but I'm sorry, there's no retconning all the conflicts written into the EU. There is no way possible.
  5. Beezer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 5, 2013
    star 4
    I am not bashing fans of the EU when I say that they need to learn that it is possible to enjoy a story without it being part of some larger canon. The canon of Heir to the Empire is getting thrown out the window, but that doesn't mean it isn't a good book that I can enjoy when I read it. One of my favorite comics is Star Wars Infinities even though I know it exists entirely outside established canon.
    Yes, what little was discussed about the Clone Wars was completely thrown out the window. Timothy Zahn gave a lot of background which ended up being ignored. As was a character named Jaster Mareel, or the fact that Owen Lars was Obi-Wan's brother (which was something that was actually in the ROTJ novelization as well as the original script), things like that.
    IMHO, no quality moviemaker like Abrams would touch the Star Wars movies with a 10 foot pole if he had to conform to the EU. He is going to want his own new characters, his own storylines, etc.

    And all of this is not to mention the fact that 95% of moviegoers seeing E7 don't have the first clue regarding the events of the EU, so you'd have a lot of 'splainin to do.
    Last edited by Beezer, Mar 26, 2014
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  6. Ryus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    Couldn't the same thing have been said about any Marvel Cinematic Universe character prior to 2008? :rolleyes: (And lots of respected hollywood producers and actors work there)

    All this proves is they have to introduce the character... like any other character. Yes, you could argue they'd have to 'cut the fat' and only use some aspects of their EU past, rewrite what they want/have too, and leave the rest open to play with later. But that's exactly what the Marvel Cinematic Universe did too. Let's not forget that 30 years have past and surely LFL is planning out exactly what happened in those 30 years, so even new characters will have 30 years worth of baggage...
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  7. Beezer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 5, 2013
    star 4
    In the MCU, when a character is introduced, we get an origin story. We learn how Tony Stark became Iron Man (at least as far as movie canon is concerned), how Steve Rogers became Captain America, how Thor went from Asgard to Earth, etc..... in Star Wars, you can't just introduce a character with all the EU baggage that has been written over the past 20 years. Is the following really what you want the opening crawl to look like?

    Last edited by Beezer, Mar 26, 2014
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  8. BigAl6ft6 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 5
    I honestly don't think it'll be that much baggage in between the 30 years for Our Heroes and thier Next Generation Offspring, certainly not EU multi-novel series post ROTJ EU is now totally canon epic baggage. The MCU tells you exactly who these people are when they pop up, we chart their journey, and nothing extremely important happens off screen.

    There are a lot of movie sequel prequel tie-in comics and novels and such for all franchises out there, but none of them are required reading that actually inform the backstory and development of the movie script. They're all pieced together afterwards.
    Last edited by BigAl6ft6, Mar 26, 2014
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  9. Ryus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    I was referring to characters other than the key major superheroes in the MCU... like Nick Fury's teaser at the end of Iron Man (which didn't really say much but implied tons to even non comic fans) or many of the other dozen more minor cameo's from comic characters... they could have created dozens of other new roles but instead gave us actual names from universe 616 but modifed for the movie universe of 199999 (yes, Marvel names their universes with bizzare numbers).

    Which is my point, all they need to do with any EU character they choose to keep and put in VII is just introduce them in their role... like they would with any new character. We can surmise their new past by how they portray the character... that way no EU baggage carries over, problem solved. JJ makes all his actors intreaging and Kasden will make their dialog memerable, so audiences will be hooked to every character (New or EU adapted). The plot not matching up to the EU should be enough of a hint to EU fans that any EU characters are just based on them, they won't follow their EU destiny... most EU fans already know this after what happened to Boba Fett's EU history[face_laugh]

    By 30 years of history I just meant VII will allude to some of it, not choosing EU stories to follow. I'm of the opinion of burn ALL the stories but adapt in a few characters... being a comic fan has tained me to accept new realities but also taught me the old stuff is a well of ideas you'd be a fool not to draw from here and there, characters being cheif among them . [face_tee_hee]
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  10. Beezer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 5, 2013
    star 4
    That's pretty much what I am expecting: Burn all the stories, but adapt a few characters and places. However, even that will be very limited. For example, I wouldn't wager money that any children of the Big-3 have the same names we already are familiar with (and I also wouldn't wager on Luke having any kids of his own, but that's just a prediction).
  11. cronedoggy Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 1
    I'd love if they kept the EU up through NJO and toss out everything after 25ABY. It is the best EU fans can hope for.

    Star wars has a rich history of referencing events not seen, to make the world feel more lived in.

    At the start of AOTC: What's happened in the last 10 years? Anakin talks about saving Obi-wan from a nest of gundarks. What, how can the audience follow along if they didn't see that?

    ANH: references to the kessel run, imperial senate, clone wars (you mean this old guy fought in a war, but we didn't get to see it?)

    ESB: How did Luke and Han get promoted? Why didn't we see the bounty hunters almost get Han at Ord mantel?

    ROTJ: Let's see the battle of Taanab!

    Episode 7 will need to be filled with similar lines. They could reference events that already have filled out back-stories. Han could say "its worse than our honeymoon on Dathomir" or Jaina could mention "its worse than being hunted by vornskr" I'm no script writer, but you get the idea.

    The opening crawl could mention that it has been 5 years of peace after an invasion by extragalactic invaders and that would be enough. If people want to know more, they can buy the series of newly reprinted books.

    The prequels span 13 years and the OT spans 4. If they wanted to have a 25 year old jacen/jaina and a 8 year old ben, they could have the trilogy jump forward a decade after the first film and make ben the main character of the 2nd and 3rd films.
    Iron_lord likes this.
  12. Jeff Vader Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2012
    star 1
    I don't know if it means anything at all as far as post ROTJ EU is concerned in relation to the ST, but I've just finished reading Lockdown and rather than having excerpts from all the EU eras at the end, it stops dead at the Rebellion era (ends 5ABY). This could be old news but I've only just noticed and thought I'd share. It suggests to me that everything post Jedi is gone story wise. Whether characters and places make an appearance is anybody's guess.
  13. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Still had a Vong in the story.
  14. Darkslayer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2013
    star 4
    No offense, but I cannot wrap my head around how Heir to the Empire is a good story. Enlighten me please, I've actually been curious for a long time as to why it's liked by a lot of people, seeing as how it kind of poops on the ending of ROTJ IMO.
  15. DarthBreezy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2002
    star 6
    Well thanks for the heads up on that - *scratches Lockdown off of list of books I might have attempted*

    One of the three things/characters that would give me pause about the new movies - Vong (*giggles*) Mara Jade, and the Ysalami thingys... (and killing Chewie via Moon - that's a non-sequiter)
  16. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    1 chapter. That's all. Not even named.
    Last edited by Force Smuggler, Mar 27, 2014
  17. BigAl6ft6 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 5
    None of the casting mentions so far really match up to any of the ages of the kids from the next gen at that period in time, there's nary a twin pairing in sight. But there is a huge difference between those throwaway references to other events in the Star Wars movies vs. All that EU stuff is canon and forms the basis of the universe, backstory, and characters that are going to be the protagonists of the series. Not least of which is the main kids of Han & Leia have already been through a war that formed them into Jedi warriors along with killing of one of their siblings / Chewbacca, etc. Using the EU event as a backstory reference could be plausible and fun but that's a huge different from taking the EU as "These things happened" as much as the previous movies did. They're already making a sequel to Return of the Jedi and the seventh(!) movie in a continuing, multi-generational series, why would you want to burden it by making a sequel to the EU ontop of all that?
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  18. DarthBreezy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2002
    star 6
    Found out he also wrote 'Death Troopers' (hated it) - that sealed the deal... (See, there are a few people out here who's dislike of the EU comes with a LITTLE research.

    As an aside, (and I've asked this before) I've heard a lot of god things about the X-wing series, but I need to know if some of my 'disliked' characters show up - aka Mara Jade etc, and are the pre "Vector Prime" - Basicly, can they be read as stand alone?
  19. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Not even 10 pages. The Vong does get mentioned later on but that was to be expected.

    DT was just his first book though. Red Harvest (aside from Hestizo) was amazing. Lockdown was mostly better than that.

    Mara doesn't appear in the X-Wing books. What other characters?

    Not sure what you mean. Some of them are self-contained. Singles, duologies, trilogies, authors, series', authors etc. Not mentioned until later. NJO/Post NJO later.
  20. Beezer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 5, 2013
    star 4
    Well if you don't like it then you don't like it. I doubt anything I say will change that opinion. I have always felt it is well written and has some of the best EU characters even created. Grand Admiral Thrawn was always one of my favorite EU characters, I always thought he had a Tarkin vibe about him. Plus I admit there is probably some sentimental bias because of how HUGE of a deal it was when those books were released. If you went 5 years with absolutely zero new Star Wars content, you'd probably be excited when it returned to print. So I'll admit to having read those books a disproportional number of times relative to other material.
    Last edited by Beezer, Mar 27, 2014
  21. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    It feels the most similar to the OT in tone/style imo. Thrawn is just as engaging as Vader/Palpatine/Tarkin etc. What? You thought the Empire was gone for good after ROTJ? Ha ha lol. Don't remember when I first read them but they've always held up. Now the character growth is not as good as the OT but still really enjoyable. New planets, characters, space battles, force stuff etc
  22. BigAl6ft6 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 5
    I'm fairly damn certain we see Thrawn, and maybe even an adaptation of the Thrawn Trilogy, in the Disney era Lucasfilm. It probably is the most popular EU materiel out there and Thrawn seems like a cool character to play with. Don't view the series as Pure Unbreakable Canon but steal away, Lucasfilm!
  23. thecurseofchris Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 12, 2013
    star 1
    Why do you guys want to see EU stuff adapted into a movie (especially the ST) so bad? The one problem about the PT is that we knew what was going to happen. Anakin was becoming Darth Vader, certain people die, etc. If the ST is an entirely new story, then we can have surprises.
  24. Ryus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    Adaptation of old material can original, be very surprising, and/or well written... there's an academy award for adapted sceenplay for a reason. Great adapted films imho include Nolan's Batman Trilogy, the Marvel Cinematic Universe, Casino Royale, True Grit, many Sherlock Holmes adaptations, Gone with the Wind, The Wizard of Oz, The Godfather parts I & II (II was a prequal), The Magficent Seven, Ben-Hur, Lawrence of Arabia, Silence of the Lambs, Schindler's List, Lord of the Rings, Titanic, Apollo 13, The Green Mile, Hamlet (plus most shakespeare), District 9, Hugo, The Wolf of Wall Street, 300, 12 Years a Slave, Casablanca, etc... tons of people entering these movies knew how they'd end and loved them none the less.

    Plus the most universally loved prequal is III which had the most predictible ending of all of them... predictability doesn't always equal bad, it can hype and deliever as much as it can hype and flop. Next off tons of original stories are horrible, and often original stories are predictible. However let's not get into a whin fest about the prequals... this is a thread about what the EU can bring to the ST. Let's stay on target...
    Last edited by Ryus, Mar 27, 2014
  25. Mystery Roach Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2004
    star 4
    The Godfather Part II was not a prequel. Casablanca was based on a play but it was unproduced, so the audience couldn't know how it would end, and a number of those comic book films didn't follow a single known storyline.
    Last edited by Mystery Roach, Mar 27, 2014