Discussion Official Sequel Trilogy / Legends / Expanded Universe discussion thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilers Allowed' started by YoureNotJonesy, Nov 2, 2012.

  1. Ryus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    Half of Godfather part II is a prequal... so what if the other half was a sequal?

    Never knew the play Casablanca was never produced though... interesting. Only knew it was based on a play (though one could argue this would be like adapting in Star Wars Underworlds or 1313, both of which never saw the light of day either)

    As to some of the listed comic films not following story lines, some may not have followed specfic story lines but they all followed trends for those characters. All phase one was an adaptation of origin stories and both phases used many times over previous adapted characters (thus still qualifying for adapted script)... and all the Nolan Batman movies adapted in basic character origins... which was my point of listing them, the list wasn't soley about adapted stories but partaining to what I viewed as ways to view EU characters getting adapted in rather than full stories being adapted. My list was aimed at showing different types of adaptations, not just the 'classical' way to define an adaptation but include many more new ways it would count today too.
    Last edited by Ryus, Mar 27, 2014
  2. Mystery Roach Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2004
    star 4
    It matters because you seemed to be making the point that knowing the ending didn't hamper audience enjoyment... a point which I agree with on the whole actually. I'm just saying that I don't think that The Godfather Part II is a particularly applicable example. Half of the movie may take place before the first one, but you don't really know how either story will conclude, much less the movie as a whole. Most comic book movies share certain beats whether or not you know the story they're adapted from, and you can usually get a sense pretty early on for how they will end. The same is true of many other movies as well. Nevertheless, I don't think being an adaptation is necessarily very relevant to that. Honestly, I'm not sure why I'm even arguing other than to nitpick lol. I do have a pretty strong disinclination towards the notion of adapting EU stories for film though.
  3. Ryus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    You still have Titanic, 300, Schindler's List, Apollo 13, where the ending was a known point due to them being history and it didn't hamper the audiences enjoyment... As stated already I picked what I picked to have a wide variety of examples, not specfic examples. We'll just have to agree to disagree, I think your nitpicking too much... after all to a whole generation the prequals where the first story and some of them enjoyed it and others didnt. So the whole topic that started this is based on a bad assumption too.

    Plus there are quite a few examples of famous prequals, such as the magiciuans nephew, The hobbit movies (to the films, the books came first), x-men first class, etc... heck even Indiana Jones and the temple of doom.
    Last edited by Ryus, Mar 28, 2014
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  4. Mystery Roach Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2004
    star 4
    As I said, I agree with your overall point. Knowing the ending has never hampered enjoyment of a story for me unless it involved a twist that was supposed to be kept a surprise. At times it can even heighten the drama, especially in the case of tragedies. Shakespeare comes right out and tells you how Romeo and Juliet ends right in the prologue and I think that philosophy was used more or less successfully (IMO) in the prequels as well. I was only objecting to some of your examples because I was just feeling pedantic last night I guess. So nothing to even agree to disagree on really. [face_peace]
    Ryus likes this.
  5. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Knowing the ending, always made me want to know how we got to the ending.
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  6. Beezer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 5, 2013
    star 4
    I've always considered Godfather Part II as both a prequel and a sequel - and it is mind blowingly fantastic on both end. My best guess is the ratio is roughly 2:1 in terms of time of the movie spent as a sequel compared to time of the movie spent as a prequel.
    Mystery Roach likes this.
  7. chris hayes Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 13, 2012
    star 4
    Peter Mayhew is filming something in May possibly EP7 so the EU is complete toast you can cut it spread it & slice it ..........
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  8. Beezer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 5, 2013
    star 4
    Ding, dong, the Vong is dead. :D
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  9. Ryus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    At the very least, that's [there was] no moon. :p;)
    Last edited by Ryus, Mar 29, 2014
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  10. DarthBreezy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2002
    star 6
    Most of the works you've cited are either classics in the truest sense or (even if somewhat loosely) based on historical facts - 99.99999% of the EU is NEVER going to reach any level near that.
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  11. Palpatine2016 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    I don't know much about the post-RotJ EW. Why do people dislike the Vong era so much?
  12. DarthBreezy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2002
    star 6
    *Zips lips*

    *mufflemuffledongtwaffwaddlemufflemuffle*
  13. BigAl6ft6 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 5
    Space Orcs murdering Chewbacca falls under the umbrella of Not My Star Wars and I have every freakin' book of the Bantam years. That's where the post ROTJ EU disconnected for me and I tossed it aside.
  14. Beezer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 5, 2013
    star 4
    I can't speak for others, but for me it is because the Vong completely rewrite everything we know about the Star Wars universe and the Force. I vaguely remember hearing something in the movies about the Force being an energy field created by all living things.... life creates it, makes it grow.... then along comes an entire species which pretty much exists outside the Force... (I know that is a gross oversimplification, but it very much boils down in essence to that being the case.) It was nothing more than a lame storytelling maneuver to increase the difficulty level for our heroes .

    Please note that I have no problem with concept of the death of Chewbacca. While it was done in a rather lame fashion, I think it opened the door to a lot of (potentially) great character development. But really those books were just the same tired old story.... create an unbeatable opponent, get your butt kicked for a while, then figure out a way to beat 'em....
    Last edited by Beezer, Mar 29, 2014
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  15. Palpatine2016 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    That should have said EU in my post, but thanks for the responses. :)
  16. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    A Force-sensitive planet stripped the Vong of the Force. Would rather have the Vong than whatever number incarnation of the Sith we are at now.
  17. jimmytheqg Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 29, 2014
    if it were exactly take place 30 years after episode iv then that would be 30 aby and that was right after the yuuzhan vong war. according to disney the movie will be a "whole new idea" if thats the truth then the movie might leave out a good chunk of details of the expanded universe fans would know. i wouldnt be very happy about that because theres already so much info in the expanded universe to make tons of cool movies already.
  18. jimmytheqg Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 29, 2014
    if the movie is about the kids then they might make a movie about how jacen solo became darth caedus. which is when the second galactic civil war began.
  19. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Rehash of the PT much?
  20. Ryus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    First off agree most of the EU will never reach that level.

    Second I was arguing about knowing the ending was the reason the prequals where "bad" implies a) the prequals where bad b) knowing the ending was the sole reason they where bad c) knowing the ending makes a film impossible to enjoy... I had issue with all three assumptions. Points a and b were so false and off topic though I barely replied about that, point c though did have relivance to the EU because its a known story (or story subplot if adapted). I then pointed out that adapted stories can be original (300, Wizard of Oz, District 9, a few Sherlock adaptations, Nolan's Batman Trilogy, Marvel Cinematic Universe, The Magficent Seven, Casino Royale, a few Hamet/Shakespeare redos, Lord of the Rings (Hobbit)), surprising (Marvel Cinematic Universe, Nolan's Batman Trilogy, Silence of the Lambs, Titanic (debatable, but it tried), 300 (again debatable, but it tried), The Godfather part II), and/or well written (The Dark Knight, Casino Royale, True Grit, Gone with the Wind, The Godfather parts I and II, Ben-Hur, Lawrence of Arabia, Schindler's List, Apollo 13, The Green Mile, Hamlet, Hugo, The Wolf of Wall Street, 12 Years a Slave, Casablanca). If looked at it this way, I think it becomes more clear I wasn't trying to just list tons of classics but picked stuff from across the ages of film in each catagory... the only one that maybe Classic heavy is the 'well written' catagory and that was unintentional since I just have high standards of what's 'well written' on the high bar in my mind and since most movies I see these days are 'funner' films not 'well written films' so I just had less to enter based on first hand knowledge... and felt I was too modern heavy since in my mind the Marvel Cinematic universe is 8 movies and the list included 2 other trilogies... which leads me to my final point

    Third when you quoted me I feel you conviently cut out the Marvel and Batman films thus squewing the list classic heavy, which I feel was unintentionally misleading at the very least. Tisk, tisk...

    Fourth, I specifically mentioned historical stuff later since people have a fasination of seeing famous events, yet often enjoy the films even though they know how it will end (or can at least predict if 'historywood' makebelieve characters are added to history like Titanic did) since to them witnessing it is the fun of it... which I assumed apperently incorrectly that obviously that could translate to witnessing a 'famous war' mentioned in A New Hope... that tons of fans in the pre-prequal days always dreamed of seeing (and many OT fans still scream they wanted the PT to have started when the Clone Wars did not a decade before it).

    Fifth again... I never said the EU could be as good adapted movie, I was only stating that the argument against an EU adapted story since 'it must 'suck' since the 'prequals sucked' since knowing the outcome makes for a 'sucky' movie' is an illogical fallacy.

    Sixth, in my subjective opinion, as much as I'd the EU adapted into movies and become highest level canon as such... you gotta fix all the inconsistancies first at the very least, so TTT for instance almost needs an entire rewrite since the Clone Wars never went down that way plus fix anything VII mandates be adapted to with it too... and it must now fit a 2-2.5 hour movie slot. So it will be vastly different if it ever sees the light of the silver screen (and this just assumes they adapt it and not get creative beyond salvaging it), which means it would be more like the Marvel movies using great elements of famous EU books/book series to tell new story once all is said and done (for example the Winter Soldier the upcoming movies is adapted from a comic of the same name with some stuff almost being ripped straight from the comic but there are vast difference also that set this so far apart as to make it a lose adaptation). So please don't misread me implying I'm trying to imply the greatness of the EU.
  21. DarthBreezy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2002
    star 6

    I only intended to trim it for brevity (as I'm doing now) - your original post is still there (like the EU books themselves) un-bastardized. ;)

    What's really funny, is that as an author myself, I will feel a *small twang* when it all gets bulldozed. I have borrowed bits and bobs from the EU (Han and Leia's primarily, but they have vastly different destinies so they are EUNO's - Expanded Universe in Name Only, and that's because I found a great cowriter for some of my works over the years) my own 'AU' will be even more distanced from the 'true story' than it already is...
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  22. Ryus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    I suppose brevity is 'subjective' in this case :p ;)

    Lolz about your AU though... the irony of it.
    Last edited by Ryus, Mar 29, 2014
  23. DarthBreezy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2002
    star 6
    It's still good - nothing but fanfiction.net being taken down can ever take those stories away, and they'll always be in my own head too.
  24. Ryus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4

    I'd prefer not to get into a 'get over it, its still out there' vs 'it being canon was an enjoyment factor of it' debate... so I'll change gears and post a quote that I believes sums up the feelings behind the counter opinion since your post sums up the 'its still out there' one.

    I think this quote discribes the feelings who feel part of their enjoyment of the EU was that it was canon... as such feel its been robbed and now see it as less than it was before. Of course in this case fear it will be replaced by something they don't like as much.

    I didn't post this for one side or the other but more to explain the feelings to the otherside... so we can drop it and move on. For some its a self pleasure just for you, for others its more about sharing the adventure where they derive the pleasure (like the saying a pleasure shared is a pleasure doubled), for some others its a mix like reading for them but then knowing all others like them they can talk to about it...naturally where people fall on this will effect their pov on the matter.

    Now can we drop this and get back to what the EU can do for the ST...
    Last edited by Ryus, Mar 29, 2014
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  25. mattman8907 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 17, 2012
    star 4
    do you think there will be a prequel comic for episode VII?
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