Discussion Official Sequel Trilogy / Legends / Expanded Universe discussion thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilers Allowed' started by YoureNotJonesy, Nov 2, 2012.

  1. Lurknomore Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 2014
    star 4
    Here's a question: Wouldn't it be really easy to both preserve the old EU and create a new ST-based EU by providing some sort of parallel-universe/time-travel/alternate-dimension-type explanation in an upcoming comic or novel? Seems like it would be a fairly simple fix. I mean, they pulled it off with Star Trek, and there they were faced with the prospect of wiping out 50 years worth of movies and TV shows, not just novels and comics!
    ScorpionJedi and BigAl6ft6 like this.
  2. newdawn12 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2013
    star 4
    That would be up to the Lucasfilm Story Group
  3. Beezer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 5, 2013
    star 4
    There would be virtually nothing easy about it. First of all, it would be an incredibly radical new concept to the Star Wars universe (whereas the Star Trek universe already had a lot of familiarity with alternate realities). Second of all, it would be a pretty cheap, blatant rip-off of Star Trek. I highly doubt that would go over terribly well with Star Wars fans. Both Star Wars in general as well as Abrams in particular would be lambasted. Third of all, it would be overcompensating to fix something which isn't broke. Getting rid of the post-ROTJ EU is infinitely easier than trying to create some sort of ridiculous explanation to reconcile the whole thing.

    I just don't understand why people can't enjoy the EU for what it is: Interesting, fun tales from the GFFA, but not part of some sort of larger continuity.
  4. cronedoggy Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 1

    I don't quite get this. Chewy is shown to be at least 20 years older than Luke. Wouldn't people just assume he died of old age if he isn't in EP7? In Indy 4, Papa Jones died off screen between movies. All that was needed was Indy looking at his picture and saying "i miss you dad". The same could easily occur in EP7.
  5. Beezer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 5, 2013
    star 4
    Ignoring the fact that Henry Jones Sr. is nowhere near as important to the 1st 3 Indy movies as Chewie is to Episodes 4-6, I mentioned in another post that audiences are much more forgiving of off-screen deaths when real world circumstances intrude. In the case of Indiana Jones' father, we know they tried to get Connery to reprise the role but he refused to come out of retirement. No such circumstances exist for Chewbacca. Even if Peter Mayhew cannot play the role, it would not be terribly difficult to find a replacement.

    Besides, is that what you really want? Do you really want to preserve the EU and leave his death so vague that viewers not in-the-know assumed he died of old age?
    purplerain likes this.
  6. newdawn12 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2013
    star 4
    That might work if Chewy wasn't going to be in seven, but their's every indication he will be.
  7. Lurknomore Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 2014
    star 4
    Abrams wouldn't be involved because they wouldn't need to address it in the movies at all. They could just write a book explaining it (maybe some flow-walking related reason?), and those EU-fans who are looking for a way to keep the Solo twin/Ben Skywalker/Mara Jade/etc. timeline alive will buy it and be grateful for it. Then when the new books come out following the ST storyline, they can enjoy those without feeling resentful that their old favorites are being "replaced".

    The reason why I say it's simple is because all it would take is one book and plenty of EU-fans would be satisfied. For many of them, they just don't want the old EU to be completely ignored, like it never existed. And I'm sure it won't be; the EU has already been retconned in the past. Why would that stop now?

    Some people just aren't made that way, and that's OK. As long as they can accept the fact that the EU will probably not be legitimized on the big screen, there's no reason why they can't embrace a satisfying reconciliation of the two timelines off the big screen.
    Last edited by Lurknomore, Mar 30, 2014
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  8. Beezer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 5, 2013
    star 4
    That doesn't change the fact that it is a cheap, Star Trek style cop-out. I highly doubt that even the fans of the EU would enjoy such a maneuver. Far better to just recognize things like those books were written in a time before we knew there was even going to be an E7, and then just let 'em go.
    Eternal_Jedi and Pro Scoundrel like this.
  9. mattman8907 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 17, 2012
    star 4
    Last edited by mattman8907, Mar 31, 2014
  10. cronedoggy Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 1
    Henry Jones Sr. is a major character in one movie, while Chewy is a very minor character in three movies. Fans may love Chewy, but he is a minor character. He gets no dialog, no character arc and is mostly just shown following Han around.

    "audiences are much more forgiving of off-screen deaths when real world circumstances intrude" I don't agree with. How does the average fan know about such real world circumstances? I agree audiences shouldn't be forced to read books, but they similarly shouldn't be required to keep up with contract disputes, breakups or other real life dramas that affect movies.

    I don't want chewie to be alive or dead in EP7. I'm only putting forth the argument that either option that the filmmakers decide upon is reasonable.
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  11. Jeff Vader Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2012
    star 1
    You are quite correct about the timeline. I missed it as my ebook kicked in at the Dramatis Personae page :p Makes it even more baffling why they wouldn't include book excerpts post jedi at the end as they have on other EU books I've read. I'm probably reading too much into it. Still, great book, and I enjoyed Honor Among Thieves too.
  12. Beezer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 5, 2013
    star 4
    Really? Chewbacca is "a very minor character"? Can't say I agree with you there. Lobot is a very minor character. Chewbacca, most certainly, is not.
    Again, I disagree vehemently. Chewbacca definitely has a character arc. In E4 you see him start with distrust, even hostility, towards Luke. He scares the living daylights out of poor Luke when Luke tries to put the binders on him. After that, most people see Chewie as being the voice of Han's conscience at the end of E4 when Han is leaving Yavin Base. By the start of E5, we see Chewie's affection for Luke. He shows concern when Luke is missing, and then gives him a big bear hug when they say goodbye on Hoth. By the end of E5 he is assigned the task of protecting the Princess and in E6 transitions into a role fully supporting the Alliance.

    He is nowhere near being the same character at the end of E6 that we met in the Mos Eisley cantina. He has as much of a character arc as anyone else over those 3 movies.
    Last edited by Beezer, Mar 31, 2014
  13. TigerCraneFist Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2002
    star 4
    Shroedinger's Wookiee?
  14. BigAl6ft6 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 5
    Personally, I like big crazy alt-universe / time-travel retcons but that's for me. I do like the overall concept of "one big canon", I think it's a neat idea but I'm personally not as beholden to it as to limit the filmmakers basing their work on EU ideas and history. However, if there is some super-nuts EU-product (obviously, not in the movie) alt-universe timelime altering story (Nero shows up in the Narada with Bill and Ted! And Dr Who! I'd read the hell outta that!), or get more Force-y with it (theory I heard tossed around was "Visions of Luke Skywalker" Always in motion is the future and all that.) that would marry the EU and ST timelines into some sort of parallel canon, it would keep the idea of "one big story".

    I like the Luke had a giant, trippy EU Force vision idea but it does have the feel of "It was all a dream", quite literally. I don't mind time travel trying to be crammed into Star Wars for a big blip post ROTJ EU retcon-fest if only because every freakin' genre trope ever gets crammed into Star Wars at one point. See if it fits or not and box-checking continuity fixing is done. Maybe not done greatly, but still done.
    Iron_lord likes this.
  15. sluggo1313. Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2013
    star 4
    Because very few people who will go see the movie have any interest in finding, buying and reading a Star Wars book. Asking an audience to read a book to get vital information about a character in a movie is simply bad storytelling. Episode VII will stand on its own, without the need for any additional information to know whats happened to any of the characters. And no one is saying forget the EU, it just won't relate to the movie.

    Look at the Marvel movies, for example. Those movies don't follow the comic book stories at all, but they aren't telling the comic book readers to forget the comic book stories, just understand that one is not linked to the other. Samething here.

    Lucas didn't use that much EU< he seemed to go out of way to contridict it when he could.
    BigAl6ft6, Eternal_Jedi and HanSolo29 like this.
  16. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 7
  17. sluggo1313. Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2013
    star 4

    And a lot of those were not added by Lucas (such as the name Coruscant, which he intended to change and some of the people who work at Lucasfilm basically begged him not too, or Aayla Secure, Lucas said he wanted a Blue Twi'Lek Jedi after seeing her picture, not that he wanted HER) or are a BIG stretch to claim that Lucas was influenced by the EU (ie - using the force to run faster or the Jedi having a Code).
  18. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    Are we allowed to discuss canon in this thread?
  19. DarthBreezy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2002
    star 6
    JediGirl_Angelina and Lurknomore like this.
  20. EHT New Films Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Sep 13, 2007
    star 6
  21. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    Alright. So has their been any confirmation over whether Splinter of the Mind's Eye is canon or not?
  22. cronedoggy Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 1
    Very minor was an overstatement. But he is below Han, Luke, Leia, R2, 3P0, Vader, yoda, obi-wan, emperor and Lando. If there is no nein numb with Lando, will that need an explanation? I like chewy. I'm fine if he is in the movie. I don't think they should be forced to coincide with the EU.

    I'm only putting forth the argument that audiences are smart enough to assume he died if we don't see him in EP7.
  23. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    What happens if we don't see Han in the movie?
  24. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    There will be much wailing and gnashing of teeth?
    Jedi Merkurian likes this.
  25. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Well if people are going to complain if Chewie died offscreen before the ST, what about Han if he isn't in the ST?