Discussion Official Sequel Trilogy / Legends / Expanded Universe discussion thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilers Allowed' started by YoureNotJonesy, Nov 2, 2012.

  1. BigAl6ft6 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 5
    You can steal the characters and not bring along the EU baggage. Disney / Marvel just stole The Winter Solider from the comics but they didn't bring the comic book continuity with him but the character is basically exactly like he was in the comics. I think the idea of a bunch of EU characters and names being pilfered and adapted in the ST era is fairly likely. Just not like "this is the EU character and his backstory and history is EXACTLY what it was in the EU"
    Last edited by BigAl6ft6, Apr 21, 2014
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  2. TheBBP Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2012
    star 5
    I wouldn't even bet someone else's money on that. I think that you are wishing too hard if you think that Thrawn, Jacen, Jaina, Ben and whoever else will make it into the movies in any form. I could see side characters, but absolutely would not bet for a second that any EU character directly tied to the core plots of the EU will make it into the movies.
  3. BigAl6ft6 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 5
    Fair enough, but I highly doubt the entire ST will breeze by without adapting any EU characters into the movies. There's a big gulf of difference between EU as canon character popping up and them adapting the character.
    Ryus likes this.
  4. chris hayes Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 13, 2012
    star 4
    It's all George Lucas's fault he could have stopped the EU along time ago & wouldn't have this mess......
  5. Darth_Downunder Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 5, 2001
    star 5
    It's not a mess though. Kinberg's final comment indicates they have full clarity on the matter. Now we know their position too.
    Last edited by Darth_Downunder, Apr 21, 2014
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  6. ScorpionJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2013
    star 3
    Star Wars wouldn't even be alive without the EU.


    I agree with this. Ben Affleck's Batman is going to be an all new Batman without any baggage and audiences of all sorts can learn to let go of what happens in comics etc and give him a try. Secondly, only a small majority really know the EU THAT well. Are most of the audiences really going to care what happened in (insert character here)'s life some 10 years ago on a particular day? EU baggage is only an issue for a small majority who make a fuss over it. It's not a problem.
  7. Saurion-Fett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 3, 2001
    star 4
    I LOVE THIS ...its the best news ever. These movies have real hope now. Canon is the first six movies. What i have always said. What a great day
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  8. Mystery Roach Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2004
    star 4
    Let's look at this in context...

    It seems to me that the point of what he's saying is just that the ST isn't going to be drawing from the EU, whereas Rebels (like Clone Wars) will take some inspiration from it. I honestly don't think that this was intended to be a definitive statement on canon. This is the sort of thing I think fans have a tendency to take far too seriously and be too literal-minded about.

    Basically it just means that the EU follows the films and not the other way around. As it should be and has always been.
    Last edited by Mystery Roach, Apr 22, 2014
  9. Darth_Downunder Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 5, 2001
    star 5
    He rambled on for a while & was vague but then very clearly said "but I know..." & then made a clear & authoritative statement on what he knows. There wasn't much to glean from what he said before "I know" but his words after that were as crystal clear as you can get.

    The thing is, some fans of the EU get defensive & take this sort of thing as a dis of their particular favorite piece of EU, whether it be a comic, cartoon series or novel. Therefore rather than taking that final statement on face value they interpret it in a way that suits them. Let's be clear about something: this is a guy who is a creative consultant on Ep7 & is writing a SW spin off movie as we speak. The word is they want the first spin off released by 2017 - only 3 years from now, if not sooner. So he's currently, right now immersed in SW movie development. This is an insight into his current mindset in terms of what he looks back on & considers canon as he writes & develops these movies. It's info that can only help us in our speculation about the upcoming movies. It's a great insight & rather than play guessing games & try to re interpret his words we should accept on face value what was a clear update on an important part of the SW movie development process.
    kubricklynch likes this.
  10. Mystery Roach Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2004
    star 4
    @Darth_Downunder You're kind of bulldozing my point there. Kinberg wasn't asked about what is and isn't canon. He was asked about whether or not the EU is off limits. His response was in regards to the difference between the EU's influence on Rebels and the movies. When he said, "But I know for the movies, the canon is the canon, and the canon is the six films that exist", he was directly addressing that issue. That's why I put the full question and answer in quotes. I do believe the context of the question is important to understanding what he meant by his answer, which is that when it comes to the moves, they are not beholden to the EU. Period. The word canon doesn't need to be interpreted so literally in this context. So while I do see it as a very definitive statement that the films will not be using the EU as a basis, I think it was no way a definitive statement about what will be included in the official Lucasfilm canon when all is said and done. And keep in mind I say this as someone who would like nothing better than to see all the EU wiped clean.

    Anyway, I'm dropping the subject now, because the last time we had this debate it led to a rather sever reaction on the part of the mods.
  11. Saurion-Fett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 3, 2001
    star 4
    As far as the movies go that have and always will be independent from the EU. The EU is just like a "what if". I enjoy a lot of it but its crap compared to tbe cinema.but better than no starwars
    Mystery Roach likes this.
  12. Mystery Roach Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2004
    star 4
    I agree. And regardless of what is or isn't officially in the new canon, the movies will always stand above and apart from everything else to some degree. That's just the reality of it. I wouldn't have it any other way. So it's really all kind of relative anyway, thus making it a fairly moot point.
    Darth_Downunder likes this.
  13. Darth_Downunder Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 5, 2001
    star 5
    That debate we had went around in circles bcs the issue wasn't clear then. It's good to get a strong & unambiguous statement like this. It should prevent any potential arguments like the one we had (or maybe I'm being too optimistic). So, it sounds like we're in agreement. He was specifically referring to what he & the development team consider canon during the development of the upcoming movies. I agree with you, he's saying they are only beholden to the 6 films - but they also could if they wanted to take ideas & inspiration from EU sources. He said he was speaking with knowledge of the mindset of JJ, KK, LK & Arndt & then told us what he knows about the C issue.
    If only JJ & co would take a leaf out of his book & speak this plainly about things :)

    Oh & IMO from his defensive cagey reaction I think Boba Fett should be considered the character most likely for the first spin off.
    Mystery Roach likes this.
  14. sluggo1313. Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2013
    star 4

    They could, except Kennedy did say last year that Star Wars doesn't have a book serious to draw a template/insipiration from........

    And if they do take some characters from the EU but completely change them, they are still "bull dozing" the EU.

    Why not? They have creative people there making decisions. Why would Abrams or anyone else they NEED to look to the EU for ideas, you don't think they more then enough of their own? Or if they do need ideas I won't go to Lucas first?
  15. DarthBreezy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2002
    star 6
  16. cronedoggy Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 1
    I think the EU references in the film will work something like this:

    I picked this beauty up on "insert planet name here" when I passed through the core worlds last time. Why not use an established planet?

    Throwaway lines that make the world seem larger will reference the broader already created world. We have some precedent for this.

    Jango: I was hired by a man named dooku on the moons of bogden.

    This planet came from an old star wars cartoon. If they need a throwaway line, they can get Pablo to provide it for them.
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  17. Beezer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 5, 2013
    star 4
    I wouldn't expect an EU character to have any role more prominent than the lighting fast wink-and-nods we got in the prequels like Cin Drallig or Quinlan Vos.
  18. Ryus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    Vos was in Ep I before the EU, though the EU named him and gave him history.... Enough to return for TCW (though altered for kids)
    Last edited by Ryus, Apr 22, 2014
  19. Beezer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 5, 2013
    star 4
    The question is whether characters from the EU will be brought into the sequels, not whether characters from the sequels will be brought into the EU. By saying Vos was in E1 is not an example of Lucas taking a character from the EU and bringing him into the movie. Rather, the EU took a character from the movie and brought them into the EU. The EU did the same thing with Aurra Sing (not to mention countless others). Sing was in E1 for roughly 1 second and then became the main subject of all sorts of stories, comics, etc..... but, like Vos, she wasn't a pre-existing EU character brought into the movie (by "pre-existing" please note I mean prior to the production of E1, not the actual release date).

    Lucas admitted that mentioning Vos by name in E3 was a subtle wink-and-nod to the EU, as was Cin Drallig in the Jedi Temple recordings. I wouldn't expect anything more than that from the sequels in regards to already-existing EU characters. However, much like Vos and Sing, I have no doubt that the EU will take someone with 2 seconds of E7 screen time and create all sorts of backstories and comics, etc.
    Last edited by Beezer, Apr 22, 2014
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  20. Ryus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    @Beezer lol, I totally forgot all about Vos' name drop in III. Sorry, my bad. Never mind me.
  21. DarthBreezy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2002
    star 6
    How was Cin Drallig in the Jedi Temple a "subtle wink-and-nod to the EU," - Cin Dralling was Nic Gillard, aka the stunt co-ordinator/swordsman (and all around sweetheart).
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  22. BigAl6ft6 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 5
    I restate: I find it incredibly unlikely that 6+ hours of ST are gonna breeze by without entirely a single EU character adapted into the story. That's a lot of content, eventually somebody is gonna pop open a Star Wars reference book and steal something.

    When I say "adapted" I do not mean "This means the EU is canon", I literally mean someone taking a name or a character design or style, etc.
    Last edited by BigAl6ft6, Apr 22, 2014
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  23. JeeediMoriah Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2014
    So perhaps the VII folks don't use any EU story arcs/characters as inspiration...but I hope they at least borrow/nod to some themes and elements from the more talented EU authors. Granted, Troy Denning made a mess of a lot of the characters/arcs but there were many novels by Zahn and some stand alone New Jedi Order novels (Traitor anyone?) that left a lasting impression on me and I'm sure others.

    For me, it's less about specific characters/story arcs (ie. solo children, vong, galactic alliance) and more about how unique the backdrop was in the Zahn/NJO series and how human the characters were. Borrowing these artistic elements shouldn't be a problem, especially since the empire left the rebel alliance and jedi in such an ambiguous state. I think Zahn did a brilliant job at picking up the story and speculating how things would be, the rebuilding of a new republic and a new jedi order with the original three at the helm still seems perfectly rational to me.

    I just hope that everything isn't so glossed over like in the PT/TCW. I'm not saying everything should be dark and tragic, but I felt that certain writers, Zahn, Allston, and Stover deserve some flattery in the form of imitation. They brought thematic elements to the universe that were gritty, sometimes dark, sometimes humorous, and above all a little more mature then the PT/TCW which I believe was appropriate for events after RotJ and in line with the artistic direction of the OT.

    That being said, the fangirl inside me would also love to see a blonde, part vong, part tuscan raider, part darksider, part jedi, part bounty hunter up on that big screen. But the odds don't look so good. Who knows...maybe they'll do an 'Amazing' Star Wars in 10 years!
    Last edited by JeeediMoriah, Apr 23, 2014
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  24. sluggo1313. Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2013
    star 4

    And again, why would they? Do you honestly think that creative people like Abrams NEEDS to borrow those ideas, and/or that if he doesn't have an idea of his own that he wouldn't go to Lucas first?

    And what I'm saying is, why would Abrams need to crack open the EU to get a name or alien design?
  25. Darth_Downunder Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 5, 2001
    star 5
    Agreed, except with regards to Rebels. Since Rebels is being made under the new regime I think there might be some tie ins with its places & characters.