Discussion Official Sequel Trilogy / Legends / Expanded Universe discussion thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilers Allowed' started by YoureNotJonesy, Nov 2, 2012.

  1. Ganger Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 1999
    star 4
    No, I just read the official announcement and it makes me glad because I have never liked EU and now that is officially discarded as canon and labeled as "legends" made me laugh a bit.
    Dra--- likes this.
  2. ezekiel22x Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2002
    star 5
    Super Star Wars and Pod-Racer will always be the real canon to me! Episode VII is DU.
  3. Ryus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    This doesn't mean those characters won't crossover into new stories, only that either what we know about them isn't the real story but a legend surrounding them with future content giving us the true story and/or they're a legend that spurng up in connection to a timeperiod or event or character who is canon (if we take the Legend tag line to its literal meaning anyway, more loosely it could mean some stuff are just legends with no basis but odds are that will be reserved for way more minor characters than Starkiller or Revan). Again, could happen but doesn't mean it will.

    So new stories might give Revan a real name or shift his time line to more line up with Lucas's idea of the Sith only being 1-2k years old vs the 5k from the EU... or maybe we'll get a Revan like character who just never quite takes up that name. As to Starkiller maybe he did help form the rebellion but due to his legandary sacrifice to Rebellion created myths about him being so powerful he could pull star destroyers out of orbit.

    The way the wording of the EU still being drawn from for future content could mean as much as they will likely pull all the best from the EU but completely give them new stories so we can be surprised as an audience, of course it could be less than that but as long as the fanbase keeps demanding some things cross over odds are the story group will eventually cross those stuff over (though maybe not in the same roles, so maybe Revan and Bane lived at the same time and are now rivals, the name of Banes Apprentice Zannah was a Lucas choosen name so odds are that will survive too as to it being a blonde girl who's sad her pet died so now she must kill jedi, well maybe not).

    Anyways think of it like the Marvel comic universes, everything canon in Star Wars is universe 616 but the old EU has just been revealed to be the "ultimate" universe 1610 where most of the othertimeline stuff goes on with Marvel. As an example in universe 616 Jessica Drew is the first of like five Spider-Woman but with almost no connection to Peter Parker Spider-Man (she was Hydra, the Shield, the New Avengers, etc but never really a sidekick more the triple agent who you're never sure what side she's on though you know she wants to be a goodguy, just is trapped by fate to never have it happen) but in Ultimate Universe 1610 she's a clone of Peter Parker who acutally has some of his memories too and is totally his sidekick and as a clone looks completely different than 616 Jessica and more like a female Peter Parker. 616 is a british blonde with dyed black hair and green eyes with a beyond Victoria Secret model figure and has almost totally different powers than Spider-Man but 1610 is an american (well as far a clones turned into adults super fast go) who has brown hair and brown eyes and looks like any old average girl and has every last power of Spider-Man... but both are named Jessica Drew who goes by Spider-Woman. Let's throw Mara Jade into this line of thinking, she may now say not be married to Luke and be more independent of his story, or be reworked to merge with Lyumina's character, or now attached to a new male character (say Erza from Rebels), or just may never be and was just a legend that got attached to Luke. Who knows... but her character or aspects of her may well reappear in future content.

    Again this doesn't mean all the stuffwe love will cross over and/or when/where/how we'd like them too... but it means they could and don't write off that they could, except by that you should expect them to write off them having the same story. The flat out said their goal is to keep audiences guessing and surprised in theaters.
    Last edited by Ryus, Apr 28, 2014
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  4. Beezer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 5, 2013
    star 4
    I know they left the door open to re-introducing old-EU characters, but I really don't think they will. It will cause too much confusion, and invite too much criticism when the new versions are those characters are inconsistent with the old versions.

    So far I am not seeing an old-EU characters being incorporated into any of the new Disney projects. Granted, we don't really know all that much about the upcoming books, but as far as I know - and I am sure someone will correct me if I am mistaken - they are all using either characters from the movies or all-new characters.
    Lurknomore likes this.
  5. LittleDefel Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2012
    star 1
    This is Timothy Zahn's take...

    as far as I can tell from the announcement, LFL is *not* erasing the EU, but simply making it clear that nothing there is official canon. That’s not necessarily a bad thing, nor does it immediately send everything into alternate-universe status. If nothing from the Thrawn Trilogy, say, is used in future movies (and if there’s nothing in the movies that contradicts it), then we can reasonably continue to assume that those events *did* happen. It looks to me like the “Legends” banner is going to be used mainly to distinguish Story-Group-Approved canon books from those that aren’t officially canon but might still exist...even if something from the Thrawn Trilogy *does* show up in a movie in a different form, we authors are masters of spackle, back-fill, and hand-waving. For example, if Ghent appears in the movies but never mentions Thrawn, I can argue that he simply doesn’t want to talk about that era, or else has completely forgotten about it. (Which for Ghent isn’t really much of a stretch.)
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  6. leiamoody Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2005
    star 4
    Well, Episode VII is most likely going to contradict Heir to the Empire within the first ten minutes, so I don't know how Zahn thinks anything from his trilogy can still be considered "canon" unless they're doing a filmed version of his novels. Two seperate but equal universes is ridiculous.
  7. 3PO Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2003
    star 4


    He's just trying to hold on for dear life onto his work, which has now diminished rapidly in importance and relevance. What did you expect?
  8. Krueger Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2004
    star 4
    I respectfully have to disagree with Zahn here. The press release makes the position quite clear, IMO. The "Old EU" (with everything that it contained) has been rendered non-canon. The "New EU", starting with the novel A New Dawn, is now "official" canon.
    Last edited by Krueger, Apr 28, 2014
  9. Mystery Roach Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2004
    star 4
    Yeah I think Zahn is grasping at straws. If there's no Mara, and no Jaina or Jacen, which there won't be, then that automatically invalidates TTT.
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  10. Palp_Faction Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2002
    star 3
    Zahn is just making the point that if the new material doesn't contradict anything from the old EU, then it can still have "occurred" in the readers' minds. The old EU was never canon and now it's been confirmed that it never will be. If I want Jaxxon to be canon then as far as I'm concerned he is until a story comes along that contradicts that.:) Everything is canon until the movies, TV shows or forthcoming books say otherwise, not what a suit says.
  11. Dra--- Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 30, 2012
    star 5
    Personally, I don't think it's wise to pretend that any EU events or characters are canon until proven otherwise. I think that's just setting yourself up for disappointment. I'd be hoping the characters you like most actually make it into Rebels, novels, and the ST.

    The key issue at stake is protection -- if something isn't made canon, it's simply not safe. Even if you think it might be.
    Last edited by Dra---, Apr 28, 2014
  12. Lurknomore Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 2014
    star 3


    Hopefully, TPTB will contract him to write some of the new canon novels that will no doubt be set between Episodes VI and VII. I think he deserves that much.
    Last edited by Lurknomore, Apr 28, 2014
  13. BigAl6ft6 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 5
    It'd be really hard for novels such as "Shatterpoint", "Han Solo at Star's End", "Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter" and a whole whack of self-contained novels to be actively disproved to have not happened in the Star Wars universe. When you start creeping into characters getting married and having kids, it could easily fall apart.
    Krueger likes this.
  14. thejeditraitor Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 19, 2003
    star 4
    i feel personally that what i like is still canon to me as long as i doesn't conflict with anything.
    even if it does if you've read many comics you know things change back and forth all the time. someone dies, then they come back, etc.
    Last edited by thejeditraitor, Apr 28, 2014
  15. DarthWilliams Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2008
    star 4

    That would be a lovely gesture - having him write the novelizations for the three ST films. Zahn would still have written the definitive post-ROTJ story. Though I wonder how much he'd be interested in doing it and contradicting his past work.
    Lurknomore likes this.
  16. BigAl6ft6 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 5

    I've been reading Trek novels and comics since forever, and while Paramount was officially stated that they aren't canon officially, I have no problem that they fit into the fictional universe. These people lead busy lives!

    Unless something is openly and actively contradicted by a film or TV series product, it can all "happen" in a fictional-verse. But, as I said, the deeper you go into the timeline after the movies, it starts to get dicey. But there's a ton of stuff set in the time period of the movies that work.
    Last edited by BigAl6ft6, Apr 28, 2014
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  17. thejeditraitor Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 19, 2003
    star 4

    as far as sw i never got much into the books or comics but i love the games. that being said, i'm replaying the battlefront 2 "rise of the empire" campaign and hearing the narration completely contradict the clone wars series about the clones knowledge and motives was an odd thing.
  18. Ryus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    Confusion to who? The 99% of the populas who never read the EU, or the 1% who did and of them a large bulk are very aware of multiple versions other franchises reusing characters after a reboot? You know, the very same argument you used time and again why the EU would go, why does that not apply here too? Next off I never specified it would be an old EU character and not a reworked one in their image, I was very clear that could happen too. So please dont be taking me out of context. Plus No one gets confused when Superman or Batman get reworked, and most weren't aware of say Black Widow but easily accept that the movie version isn't the comic version (the comic one has a Russian attempt to copy Captain America supersoldier serym running through he veins and is 70+ years old but due to the formula is still 25ish looking, she's not quite as strong as cap but close too. However in the movies she's only 30 and just superskilled with no powers... and I've yet to see any fan predict she'll be given a formula to make her stronger like her comic counterpart even though if she doesn't she'll be majorly next to useless vs Thanos in Avengers 3 (let alone already such vs Ultron now for #2)

    I personally believe for LFL to NEVER use an old EU character of theirs in ANY new canon stories they'd seriously have to be drinking the our audience is dumb as possible kool-aid, people get and accept changes to characters after reboots and/or medium changes. Its been the standard practice for 60+ years, Dorthy from the books is different than the Dorthy from the movie Wizard of Oz just as the Scarlet Witch of the next Avengers movie won't be the same one from the 1960's comics where she first joined the Avengers. In fact often bring in reworked and reimagined old characters sells tickets, just look at Transformers 4 now advertising Dinobots, Man of Steel advertising General Zod even though he was in Superman II, or that mysterious Boba Fett looking bounty hunter in the old Attack of the Clones ads who 'surprise' turned out to be his 'Dad'. Clone Wars felt fine bringing in totally reimagined EU characters often enough, sure some fans whined but they kept doing it since 99% of the audience accepted it and adapted to the changes. LFL never cared about the 1% of the EU fans who flippout over every little change, they however always cared about the 99% who got all excited when their EU character got a cameo and/or finally became higher level canon and happy they finally some them on screen (even if it the small and not big silver screen).

    However as to not seeing seeing old-EU characters being incorporated into new Disney projects, that's because we know next to nothing about those new projects save Rebels and the covers of 4 new books. The absence of proof, especially with so little data, isn't the proof of absence. Mind you I agree that it will likely be rare for any of them to be major characters but what really would be the harm in having say Corran Horn as a Jedi Master in VII for two lines of dialog? Its not like people are going to think he liberated Corcusant now that the EU is dead and expect his wife to walk around the corner, though they may think he could also be a good pilot like his old EU version. However its not like people expected Lumpy when Chewie was featured in III or Marvel fans wondered when Betty Ross would show up in The Avengers since they where mostly just happy Hulk was there, characters don't always bring all their baggage with them, especially in cameo or smaller role situations. For instance when Zola was in Captain American as an AI on an old computer screen they accepted right away that he wasn't now a walking robot with a screen for his face and video camera on his head, most just loved how they got the feel of him while not looking all comicbooky weird. Or Crossbones splitpersonalities name now being his real life previllian name, I can't tell you how many Marvel fans realizied that at the end of the movie and to laugh with their friends about how awesome that was later.

    Edit: We'll just have to agree to disagree here, though I do feel like we mostly agree but just arguing over details as we have been for months now.
    Last edited by Ryus, Apr 28, 2014
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  19. chris hayes Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 13, 2012
    star 4
    I think Knights of the old Republic should be cannon because what does the time line pre ANH have to do with post ROTJ ?
  20. darthjj88 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 1
    Maybe their next trilogy takes place during this Time period. People are forgetting that they are going to make a lot of new movies. Trilogies and spin offs. All time periods could be used in a future movie or series so that's why they all went bye bye.
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  21. DarthBreezy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2002
    star 6
    Please no - you just KNOW he'd find some way to sneak in the Red Plague or Artsy Smurf into it...
  22. lakhota Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 25, 2014
    star 1
    To be honest we can have Luke Skywalker narrating to a bunch of young Jedi a prequel to the prequels. He could be telling a story of the past and how the Sith and Jedi of the past fought. Just because Luke Princess Leia and Han Solo in the movie doesn't necessarily mean it's moving forward but more than likely will
  23. Ryus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    One could argue the tech levels seem too close to the movies even though they're set an amazing ~4,000 years apart. Or Lucas has always more implied the Sith came to be much closer to the movies timeline wise than the games are set as per the lost 20 jedi (EVER)... yet Kotor alone lost hundreds if not thousands of Jedi to the darkside.

    Next off odds are if any time period from the EU will be adapted to film the most likely is KotOR and as such by the games and comics lossing canon status that means future movies are free to adapt it without having to be tied down writing wise by the plot of the games and comics. So its a sound business move and by doing it now saves from having to announce it later once fans thought pre-movie EU was safe.
    Last edited by Ryus, Apr 28, 2014
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  24. Krueger Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2004
    star 4
    I do agree with this (maybe that will change with time, though). I use SOTE as an example. Unless there's some other epic work released down the line that takes place between TESB and ROTJ and deals with Boba Fett delivering Solo to Jabba the Hutt, then there's no reason why it couldn't have taken place. Maybe. As I said, in time, we'll get a better picture. Maybe some stand-alone novels and comics can be safe, providing they don't step on anyone's toes. Still, its now "non-canon". In all honesty, though, if it doesn't conflict with anything then I don't see how it couldn't have "happened". Same with Deathtroopers. How does that (little self-contained novel) contradict anything? No reason why that should be non-canon.

    However, things like the Darth Plagueis novel and the Darth Bane trilogy (which deal with major events and characters) have gone bye-bye. As much as it pains me to say. Chances are, those two characters in particular will appear somewhere down the line in the new EU (or even in a movie or two), as both were created by Lucas himself.

    Yes, but chances are the new EU will eventually delve into that period (I hope it does). Also, I'm pretty certain that at least a couple of the "spin-offs" will take place in that era (too much potential). So in the long run it’s probably for the best that it be rendered non-canon.
    Last edited by Krueger, Apr 28, 2014
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  25. lakhota Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 25, 2014
    star 1
    What if Princess Leia and Luke Skywalker are just a part of the Jedi Council. They would still be involved in the movie but not play major roles, this would give spotlight to all the new characters
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