Discussion Official Sequel Trilogy / Legends / Expanded Universe discussion thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII - Spoilers Allowed' started by YoureNotJonesy, Nov 2, 2012.

  1. Mystery Roach Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2004
    star 4
    How is that convoluted? Seems pretty straightforward to me, and clearly inferred from several lines of dialogue carefully sprinkled throughout the saga.

    I'm looking forward to seeing the new official take on this time period though, and I hope we get something of it in movie form. There's a lot of potential there, and I know a lot of people loved that era before, but the way it was handled never caught my interest.
    Last edited by Mystery Roach, Apr 28, 2014
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  2. Beezer Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 5, 2013
    star 4
    There is absolutely nothing straightforward about your interpretation. You are imputing all sorts of history that is not even remotely implied in the films.

    It just doesn't make any sense to go by what Obi-Wan says as being literal. He says the Jedi Knights were the Guardians of Peace and Justice in the Galaxy for roughly 20,000 years (assuming 1 generation = 20 years) before the Empire. We know that the Empire is the First Galactic Empire and Obi-Wan doesn't mention any breaks in that 20,000 year span. His statement can not be reconciled with the statement that the Sith formerly ruled the galaxy, unless we assume they ruled the galaxy greater than 20,000 years ago. But then Palpatine's statement of "1,000 years" throws all that into whack.

    I prefer to employ Occam's Razor: the simplest answer is usually the right one, and in this case the simplest answer is clearly that their statements were not meant to be taken literally.
  3. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    We don't know what the state of the galaxy was back then. Probably a lot smaller than it was now. Maybe they both had equal control of the galaxy? Republic still stood after all.
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  4. Mystery Roach Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2004
    star 4
    Strange, because from my perspective I'm employing Occam's Razor to come to the conclusion that I have. Various statements throughout the PT make it clear that the Sith were once in control of the galaxy and that they were thought to be wiped out a thousand years before. This also lines up with Palpatine's statement about the Republic standing for a thousand years. Since there is such a huge discrepancy between a thousand years and a thousand generations (which is actually more like 30,000 years than 20,000), the only logical conclusion I can use to interpret Obi-Wan's statement is that the Jedi had already served the Republic for tens of thousands of years before the Sith took over. Yes the Empire is the First Galactic Empire but we don't know what kind of government the Sith had in place before, or even the nature of their rule. It could have been that their rule wasn't through the actual functioning government of the time as it was with Palpatine. It could have been that there were just many Sith before the Rule of Two and that they held the Galaxy in fear for a period of time like a powerful terrorist organization. So the Republic could have still been the Republic all the way through that period, but the government was powerless to stop the Sith from terrorizing the galaxy until infighting dwindled their numbers enough for the Jedi to eradicate them (the only EU source I'm using for that bit of speculation is the TPM novel due to the fact that this part of history was laid down by Lucas himself). Perhaps that explanation seems convoluted to you, but for me it's simply the most logical conclusion I can draw.

    Anyway, I don't believe in just writing things off as continuity errors (with the one exception of the Death Star plans in ANH. There's no getting around that one), so if I can find a logical interpretation based on the information presented in the movies, I'll go with that every time.
    Last edited by Mystery Roach, Apr 29, 2014
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  5. Circular Logic SWTV Interview Host

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2013
    star 4
    I haven't glanced at this thread for almost a week, and I don't feel like reading through the thirty-odd pages here since the old EU-is-now-'Legends' announcement. So I'll just go straight to my own thoughts.

    I've spent some time thinking about the repercussions the announcement has made for the universe and the fanbase as a whole. I don't have to read through the last four days' of posts to know that the majority here believe that sweeping the old material, especially all the post-RotJ works, aside is for the betterment of the franchise given its current state, and I will say that I partly agree here. But those who know me will know that I am a very big fan of the EU, and love citing Wiki trivia to make my points in many of my posts on this forum. Alas, if so much of the material I like to cite is no longer relevant to the universe that we all know and love, what do I have left? Meh, I'll probably still keep talking about the old stuff regardless, especially the pre-RotJ EU and prequel/Old Republic EU that I am a very big fan of.

    Anyways, sorry for the tangent, but ultimately, I want to say that I feel for those fans who have long held on to the belief that the Star Wars Expanded Universe was indeed, as marketed, a part of the larger universe created by the films. I'll fully admit that I may not ever have been such a hardcore Star Wars fan had it not been for the EU really drawing in my interest and taking a good chunk of my free time exploring, time that I don't regret spending, even in light of this announcement. Whether these stories actually happened or not ultimately doesn't matter too much so long as you enjoyed the stories. Stories that took place in a fictional universe. I admit, in the past I preferred to defend the idea that Star Wars could and maybe even should keep as much of the EU intact as possible as I felt that, with the exception of most of the post-RotJ stories, most stories could still fit seamlessly into the SW universe of the films and television shows, which are all that's left for certain as part of the new, single canon. Speaking of which, I am at least very happy to hear that TCW is considered on the same level of canon now as the films, which is neat. It shows that ideas expanded on and developed in that show could be fair game for the ST and/or future spin-off films.

    The wise Master Yoda once said (in a PT-era comic, but related to his one line in AotC), "Remarkable, children are. View the universe with wonder, they do. They wonder what a thing is―and what it could be. To see as a child, you must." In this case, I have learned to cast aside my prejudices, my bias for the old EU, to look at this news through the eyes of a neophtye, and discovered that starting anew, beginning from a relatively clean slate, could be a good thing for the future of the Star Wars universe. Whether or not the EU was too bloated for its own good, the direction of the new stories promises to inject new life into the universe, and suddenly, suddenly we find ourselves at the cusp of something truly new; we're getting stories that are no longer beholden to those written before (outside of the films and TV series) and considering how the old EU had practically filled out all the major gaps of the movie universe, it's certainly a breath of fresh air to get something that would bring actual, honest suspense once more to the SW universe. In this case, with the exception of a TV show, a few novels and comics from the new EU, we hardcore and EU fans will practically be in the same boat as the rest of the casual moviegoing audience in that we don't really know what exactly to expect, provided we aren't fully spoiled, of course. It's definitely a cool feeling, to venture into the unknown once more. And I am certain the Story Group will do its best to ensure the new EU is as tight and cohesive as it ever was, probably moreso, and both draw from the vast well of the "Legends" stories while coming up with creative new ideas and stories for us to enjoy. I look forward now to this brave new world of Star Wars EU.
    Last edited by Circular Logic, Apr 29, 2014
  6. Mystery Roach Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2004
    star 4
  7. Darth_Downunder Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 5, 2001
    star 5
    This was just a continuity error. Happens in movies all the time. I'm sure George would have liked to have remembered the line correctly in which case Palpatine would've said "generations". From an in universe POV, I'm inclined to think that Palpatine just made a simple human error & slip of the tongue. Not a big deal. I'm sure GL would have a laugh that a minor continuity error has sent so many fans into a debate.
  8. Lord Nikon Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2012
    star 1
    Well, Bane actually gets a BIG mention in TCW Season 6 (THE LOST MISSIONS) when Yoda is learning how to eventually become a force ghost when he dies, and goes to Moraban (Korriban; thanks George!) he sees Bane\s tomb, and an illusion of the man himself, they speak about the rule of two and why Bane was inportant. So he still did what he did to stop the Sith from murdering each other and he still looks like he did...and that's in the new continuity since TCW stuff counts. So while the novels are out, his story is still very much present. Which is cool, as I always liked it.
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  9. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Him looking like he did - doesn't actually contradict the novels. He lost the Orbalisk Armor about 10 years before he actually died.

    That said - the nature of Bane's story may change.
  10. Chancellor_Ewok Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2004
    star 6
    Yeah, a generation is 25 years so a thousand generations would be approximately 25,000 years., also the age of the Republic is mentioned in precise terms the Ep. III novel. As the films and Clone Wars are now the only things that are canon, I would assume that the tie-in novels are as well. As for Palpatine's statement in Ep. II, he was always assumed to be referring to the Ruusan Reformation or possibly to the Republic's brief Dark Age.
  11. purplerain Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 2013
    star 4
    I have to say that I would be happy if the Karpyshan novels are thrown out. They completely mischaracterized Bane and misunderstood the logic behind the Rule of Two.
    I've always seen it this way as well. He said "stood", not "existed" or "formed". France has "stood" since the end of WWII, but it's existed for much longer.
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  12. sluggo1313. Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2013
    star 4

    So the fact is you have an opinion that has no basis in fact?
  13. STARBOB Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 11, 2002
    star 4
    The starwars comic series that will be ending this year is not canon, but the 4 issue story arc that will tell the un-produced darth maul story from clonewars season 6 is. Do I have that right?
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  14. Darth_Downunder Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 5, 2001
    star 5
  15. TheBBP Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2012
    star 4

    I believe so.
  16. STARBOB Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 11, 2002
    star 4
    Mr. Bean! I love that guy.
  17. Darth_Downunder Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 5, 2001
    star 5
    Ahem, that's Blackadder thanks ;)
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  18. STARBOB Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 11, 2002
    star 4
    He'll always be Mr. Bean to me, just like Ford will always be Han solo, Dr Richard Kimble & Indiana Jones are secondary;) .
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  19. Lulu_Mars Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2005
    star 1
    Just wanted to stop by and say that I love the idea of Star Wars Legends.
    First of all, that label sounds lovely.
    Second, now all stories that fall into that category are equally valid as legends of the GFFA. None of them are confirmed "true" and that makes them all enjoyable on the same mythical level.
    Third, there'll be no question regarding the canonicity of future material. It's all going to be 100% "true" (unless it's released with a Legends label on it), which makes things a lot simpler.
    Fourth, we can now expect ANYTHING from the new movies! :D

    I love Star Wars [face_love]
  20. Granek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2012
    star 1

    but if you just read two novels how can you tell that 'the stories were all over the place'
  21. purplerain Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 2013
    star 4
    I'm happy to say goodbye to the TORtanic. Hopefully in the future the Bendu symbol won't be misused.
  22. Krueger Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2004
    star 4
    I don't think he looked like he did in the EU. His armour was different to how his special armour was depicted in the EU. I thought the CW series made him look a lot more "beastly" if anything.
    Last edited by Krueger, Apr 29, 2014
  23. ScorpionJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2013
    star 2
    From http://www.starwars7news.com/2014/04/lucasfilm-confirms-all-future-star-wars.html:

    Long live The Old Republic era!
  24. Chancellor_Ewok Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2004
    star 6

    Games technically have always been canon.
  25. cronedoggy Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 1
    From the new cast info Domhnall gleeson could be Luke's son and Daisy Ridley could be han/leia daughter. Curious that there seems to be no actress to play Luke's wife.