Discussion Official Sequel Trilogy / Legends / Expanded Universe discussion thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilers Allowed' started by YoureNotJonesy, Nov 2, 2012.

  1. KevinM1 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2012
    star 2

    Why does none of it mean anything now? Why does it matter if the stories you enjoyed are official in any capacity? And it's not like the previous setup was set in stone. Canon existed at multiple, shifting levels based on Lucas' whims.

    I dunno. Maybe it's because I'm a comic book fan and retcons and reboots are the name of the game, but this makes a lot of sense. The EU spanned decades. It's incredibly inaccessible to new fans given how self-referential it all is. It's also a network of stories that contradict each other at points (which is one of the reasons behind the tiers of canon). As an organizational framework, its too dense. The slate needed to be wiped clean so new stories can be told.

    Look at something like Batman. The character has been around for nearly a century. He has undergone many changes. Died, been resurrected, has had a power ring or two, etc. Crap, in the first few stories, he used a gun. But no one in their right mind would expect a new author to come in and care about anything that was more than a few story arcs ago. Yeah, some authors like Grant Morrison like to grab weird esoteric things from the 60's and 70's and put them in their new work, but they're the exception to the rule. What matters is that the essence of the characters and setting remain the same. Batman is a wealthy orphan who fights crime as a vigilante. Superman is an alien from Krypton who uses his powers to defend the Earth. Luke Skywalker is a farm boy-turned-Jedi whose father failed where he succeeded.

    So, yeah, the EU is now Legends. And if the Star Wars franchise continues for another 30 or so years, the sparkling new continuity we're in right now will likely be a bloated, hard to get into, hard to understand mess and need replacing, too. And that's okay. It doesn't invalidate the meaning of the stories, or the heroism, or terror, or anything memorable. It just allows for new stories to be told. In this way, Luke and Han and Leia and all the rest will live on forever and be able to go on an infinite number of adventures. And that's pretty cool, IMO.
  2. Darth Doop Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2014
    star 4
    At least it's not http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/URoRRuR'R'R
    Dark Lady Mara likes this.
  3. The Shrike Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 1
    Yeah, given Obi Wan's quote below, I just don't understand why they'd introduce an entire species for which the rules don't apply. It's like the writer woke up one morning and said, hey, we've got these characters (Jedi, Sith) that the entire Star Wars universe revolves around, so let's see if we can completely invalidate them.

    "Well, the Force is what gives a Jedi his power. It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us; it binds the galaxy together."
    BigAl6ft6 and Mystery Roach like this.
  4. Darth Doop Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2014
    star 4
    The Vong were a living plot device. An entire race of plot devices....
  5. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    They were stripped of the Force by a Force-sensitive planet.
  6. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 7
    It might have been that the Force was so powerful, they needed an enemy that was difficult to affect with it (some powers did work on them- mostly Dark ones) for it to be an adequate challenge for Jedi.

    Eventually it was explained that the Vong's ancestors had been "severed from the Force" in the distant past.
    Force Smuggler likes this.
  7. darthjj88 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 1

    Lucas has said all through those 25+ years of EU that it was not part of HIS story. Though he would borrow ideas, they were never official to him. I don't understand why you are all so shocked this happened? Surely you saw this coming. I did, and most friends/fans I talk with did too.
  8. Ichthyocentaur Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 25, 2014
    star 1
    And most importantly... DID HAN SHOOT FIRST OR NOT?!

    Wow, hyperbolic much?

    Personally, I'm happy to get the chance to have the slate wiped clean and again take that "first step into a larger world" that so entranced me when I first saw Ep. IV in 1997.

    Only now the world is new and different and there are tons of stories waiting to be told by people who will keep in mind the shortcomings of the PT and the EU and endeavor to overcome them.

    Feel free to go cry into your novels; we'll be out here reveling in the feeling of being a kid again and watching brand-new Star Wars on the big screen.
    Last edited by Ichthyocentaur, Apr 27, 2014
    Jedi Merkurian likes this.
  9. Darth Doop Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2014
    star 4
    "Is 21-B still 21-B?"
    BigAl6ft6 and Artoo-Dion like this.
  10. Chancellor_Ewok Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2004
    star 6
    It matters because, unlike Star Trek, where parallel universes and alternate dimensions are accepted as a part of the fabric of the universe, or comic books, where characters die and get resurrected all the time, Star Wars is telling an on-going and continuous story that actually hangs together pretty well, overall. But the point is that in Star Wars, there are no parallel realities or alternate dimensions. There is only one timeline I've said before, and I'll say again, I was never under the illusion that Disney or Lucasfilm was ever going to be totally beholden to the EU, as they will want the freedom to do their own thing, and that's fine. Star Wars, first and foremost has always been a film/television franchise, and as such the films have always been the primary anchor points of the universe. Anything that gets committed to celluloid is scripture. But consider this, between 1983 and 1999, Star Wars was the EU. If you wanted to have a Star Wars experience outside of the OT, you bought a comic book or played a computer game or read a Star Wars novel. If it weren't for the EU during those years, none of us would be here having this discussion. Also, the decision to call the EU Star Wars Legends IMHO, is hugely hypocritical and extremely disrespectful to EU fans. Disney and Lucasfilm say that they want to create more a streamlined and coherent continuity for the ST, but they are still going to print all the existing material, of which there are tens of thousands pages.There's a term for that: a cash grab. There's also the fact that people who are new to Star Wars are going to come out of the theatre next year and be looking for Star Wars content outside of the films and TV series. They're going to walk into their local book store and see dozens of Star Wars novels sitting on the shelf and be even more confused not less. I liked the way that JJ Abrams was able to reboot Star Trek, but do in a manner that preserved the existing coninuity. That indicated a respect for the Star Trek fan community and I was kind of expecting something similar for Star Wars, especially given that Abrams claims to be Star Wars fan. But I guess not. Like I said, I'm not the rabid fanboy type, but given that I have read nearly all of the major EU novels, yeah it matters to me. A lot. And yeah, I kind of feel like Disney raped my childhood.
    Fastback and Force Smuggler like this.
  11. leiamoody Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2005
    star 4
    How much input would Abrams actually have regarding any marketing decisions for the NuEU? So far he's only attached to Episode VII as director. I don't think that gives him any real leverage in the Disney marketing department. They make their own decisions.
  12. Chancellor_Ewok Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2004
    star 6

    Yes, I would think that he would have a certain amount of input, given that he's the director.
  13. Ryus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    You know what that means, ewoks are now just nameless... Things.
    [IMG]
    People might start calling them Endorians or something now :p
    Last edited by Ryus, Apr 27, 2014
  14. Mystery Roach Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2004
    star 4
    I'm pretty sure the word Ewok is used in the closing credits of RoTJ, but I could be mistaken.
  15. Ryus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    You expect me to read? I thought they just retconned the EU so people don't have to do something so hard :p
    Fastback and Mystery Roach like this.
  16. KED12345 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2012
    star 4
    I'm totally hurt and devastated that the Ewok comics are no longer considered part of Star Wars lore.

    Thanks for nothing, Disney!
  17. Satipo Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 29, 2014
    star 5
    I forgot about SOTE. That's gone too.
  18. KevinM1 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2012
    star 2

    Also good, IMO. Xizor, his fembot assassin, and Dash "I'm a poor and blatant substitute for Han Solo to introduce a plot element that ultimately goes nowhere" Rendar weren't good editions to the franchise.

    And I figured out why the Vong bug me. They're the Star Wars version of Cobra-La, and are just as out-of-place in the GFFA as they were in the GI JOE universe.
    HugoWanKenobi and Satipo like this.
  19. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    What about that Ewok movie with Willford Brimley?!?!
    bstnsx704 and EternalHero like this.
  20. HugoWanKenobi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 2013
    star 1
    Loved the Thrawn trilogy but always bothered me the Ysalamiri creatures, they just looked too Pikachu for me, I'm glad that we've got rid of those silly guys, same for that beyond absurd Chewy's death and the creative void that the names "Ben Skywalker" and "Anakin Solo" represent as a whole rehash concept wich plagued much of the SW:Legends material.
    Last edited by HugoWanKenobi, Apr 27, 2014
  21. Darkslayer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2013
    star 4
    Oh I wasn't talking about making movies off of them those are just 3 things I hope they incorporate somehow into the new canon.

    Much more serious than it is over here. Try it, I dare you! :p
    Last edited by Darkslayer, Apr 27, 2014
  22. Beezer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 5, 2013
    star 4
    I always looked at it much the same way. Not only did it contradict the "Rule of Two" but I always thought it was really silly how it turned out that Plagueis was in Palpatine's apartment still pulling the strings during the "At last we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi... at last we will have revenge" scene. It smacked of being an atrocious retcon.

    You do realize that all those works were fiction, right? None of these things actually happened no matter what canon level an event is assigned to.
    Last edited by Beezer, Apr 27, 2014
  23. Darth Heisenberg Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2014
    My concern is that there's still huge gaps in the Clone Wars era, especially the events leading directly into Revenge of the Sith. Do they plan on releasing new novels or comics to explain it, or are they just going to leave it open? As far as I'm concerned, books like Labyrinth of Evil, Plageuis, Darth Bane and the entire KotOR era are canon until LFL releases something that says otherwise.
    Last edited by Darth Heisenberg, Apr 27, 2014
    ScorpionJedi likes this.
  24. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 7
    Darth Maul: Lockdown was released only a month or two ago, and had Plagueis.
    Force Smuggler likes this.
  25. Beezer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 5, 2013
    star 4
    I never liked the Ysalamiri because they were a direct contradiction of the idea the the Force is an energy field created by all living things. And, much like the Vong, an attempt was made to explain away how such creatures could come into existence but fact remains that, much like the Vong, they were nothing more but a lame plot device to make the difficulties facing our heroes even greater.

    Um, that's what they did this past Friday.
    Last edited by Beezer, Apr 27, 2014
    darthjj88 and bstnsx704 like this.