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Discussion Official Sequel Trilogy / Legends / Expanded Universe discussion thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Sequel Trilogy (Released Films)' started by YoureNotJonesy, Nov 2, 2012.

  1. 3PO

    3PO Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 5, 2003


    He's just trying to hold on for dear life onto his work, which has now diminished rapidly in importance and relevance. What did you expect?
     
  2. Krueger

    Krueger Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 9, 2004
    I respectfully have to disagree with Zahn here. The press release makes the position quite clear, IMO. The "Old EU" (with everything that it contained) has been rendered non-canon. The "New EU", starting with the novel A New Dawn, is now "official" canon.
     
  3. Mystery Roach

    Mystery Roach Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2004
    Yeah I think Zahn is grasping at straws. If there's no Mara, and no Jaina or Jacen, which there won't be, then that automatically invalidates TTT.
     
    Artoo-Dion , Krueger, Dra--- and 3 others like this.
  4. Palp_Faction

    Palp_Faction Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Feb 3, 2002
    Zahn is just making the point that if the new material doesn't contradict anything from the old EU, then it can still have "occurred" in the readers' minds. The old EU was never canon and now it's been confirmed that it never will be. If I want Jaxxon to be canon then as far as I'm concerned he is until a story comes along that contradicts that.:) Everything is canon until the movies, TV shows or forthcoming books say otherwise, not what a suit says.
     
  5. Dra---

    Dra--- Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 30, 2012
    Personally, I don't think it's wise to pretend that any EU events or characters are canon until proven otherwise. I think that's just setting yourself up for disappointment. I'd be hoping the characters you like most actually make it into Rebels, novels, and the ST.

    The key issue at stake is protection -- if something isn't made canon, it's simply not safe. Even if you think it might be.
     
  6. Lurknomore

    Lurknomore Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 18, 2014


    Hopefully, TPTB will contract him to write some of the new canon novels that will no doubt be set between Episodes VI and VII. I think he deserves that much.
     
  7. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    It'd be really hard for novels such as "Shatterpoint", "Han Solo at Star's End", "Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter" and a whole whack of self-contained novels to be actively disproved to have not happened in the Star Wars universe. When you start creeping into characters getting married and having kids, it could easily fall apart.
     
    Krueger likes this.
  8. thejeditraitor

    thejeditraitor Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    i feel personally that what i like is still canon to me as long as i doesn't conflict with anything.
    even if it does if you've read many comics you know things change back and forth all the time. someone dies, then they come back, etc.
     
  9. DarthWilliams

    DarthWilliams Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 29, 2008

    That would be a lovely gesture - having him write the novelizations for the three ST films. Zahn would still have written the definitive post-ROTJ story. Though I wonder how much he'd be interested in doing it and contradicting his past work.
     
    Lurknomore likes this.
  10. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012

    I've been reading Trek novels and comics since forever, and while Paramount was officially stated that they aren't canon officially, I have no problem that they fit into the fictional universe. These people lead busy lives!

    Unless something is openly and actively contradicted by a film or TV series product, it can all "happen" in a fictional-verse. But, as I said, the deeper you go into the timeline after the movies, it starts to get dicey. But there's a ton of stuff set in the time period of the movies that work.
     
    Krueger, Ryus, Dra--- and 1 other person like this.
  11. thejeditraitor

    thejeditraitor Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003

    as far as sw i never got much into the books or comics but i love the games. that being said, i'm replaying the battlefront 2 "rise of the empire" campaign and hearing the narration completely contradict the clone wars series about the clones knowledge and motives was an odd thing.
     
  12. Ryus

    Ryus Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 25, 2013
    Confusion to who? The 99% of the populas who never read the EU, or the 1% who did and of them a large bulk are very aware of multiple versions other franchises reusing characters after a reboot? You know, the very same argument you used time and again why the EU would go, why does that not apply here too? Next off I never specified it would be an old EU character and not a reworked one in their image, I was very clear that could happen too. So please dont be taking me out of context. Plus No one gets confused when Superman or Batman get reworked, and most weren't aware of say Black Widow but easily accept that the movie version isn't the comic version (the comic one has a Russian attempt to copy Captain America supersoldier serym running through he veins and is 70+ years old but due to the formula is still 25ish looking, she's not quite as strong as cap but close too. However in the movies she's only 30 and just superskilled with no powers... and I've yet to see any fan predict she'll be given a formula to make her stronger like her comic counterpart even though if she doesn't she'll be majorly next to useless vs Thanos in Avengers 3 (let alone already such vs Ultron now for #2)

    I personally believe for LFL to NEVER use an old EU character of theirs in ANY new canon stories they'd seriously have to be drinking the our audience is dumb as possible kool-aid, people get and accept changes to characters after reboots and/or medium changes. Its been the standard practice for 60+ years, Dorthy from the books is different than the Dorthy from the movie Wizard of Oz just as the Scarlet Witch of the next Avengers movie won't be the same one from the 1960's comics where she first joined the Avengers. In fact often bring in reworked and reimagined old characters sells tickets, just look at Transformers 4 now advertising Dinobots, Man of Steel advertising General Zod even though he was in Superman II, or that mysterious Boba Fett looking bounty hunter in the old Attack of the Clones ads who 'surprise' turned out to be his 'Dad'. Clone Wars felt fine bringing in totally reimagined EU characters often enough, sure some fans whined but they kept doing it since 99% of the audience accepted it and adapted to the changes. LFL never cared about the 1% of the EU fans who flippout over every little change, they however always cared about the 99% who got all excited when their EU character got a cameo and/or finally became higher level canon and happy they finally some them on screen (even if it the small and not big silver screen).

    However as to not seeing seeing old-EU characters being incorporated into new Disney projects, that's because we know next to nothing about those new projects save Rebels and the covers of 4 new books. The absence of proof, especially with so little data, isn't the proof of absence. Mind you I agree that it will likely be rare for any of them to be major characters but what really would be the harm in having say Corran Horn as a Jedi Master in VII for two lines of dialog? Its not like people are going to think he liberated Corcusant now that the EU is dead and expect his wife to walk around the corner, though they may think he could also be a good pilot like his old EU version. However its not like people expected Lumpy when Chewie was featured in III or Marvel fans wondered when Betty Ross would show up in The Avengers since they where mostly just happy Hulk was there, characters don't always bring all their baggage with them, especially in cameo or smaller role situations. For instance when Zola was in Captain American as an AI on an old computer screen they accepted right away that he wasn't now a walking robot with a screen for his face and video camera on his head, most just loved how they got the feel of him while not looking all comicbooky weird. Or Crossbones splitpersonalities name now being his real life previllian name, I can't tell you how many Marvel fans realizied that at the end of the movie and to laugh with their friends about how awesome that was later.

    Edit: We'll just have to agree to disagree here, though I do feel like we mostly agree but just arguing over details as we have been for months now.
     
    Fastback likes this.
  13. chris hayes

    chris hayes Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 13, 2012
    I think Knights of the old Republic should be cannon because what does the time line pre ANH have to do with post ROTJ ?
     
  14. darthjj88

    darthjj88 Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2012
    Maybe their next trilogy takes place during this Time period. People are forgetting that they are going to make a lot of new movies. Trilogies and spin offs. All time periods could be used in a future movie or series so that's why they all went bye bye.
     
    Mystery Roach and Lurknomore like this.
  15. DarthBreezy

    DarthBreezy Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 4, 2002
    Please no - you just KNOW he'd find some way to sneak in the Red Plague or Artsy Smurf into it...
     
  16. lakhota

    lakhota Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Apr 25, 2014
    To be honest we can have Luke Skywalker narrating to a bunch of young Jedi a prequel to the prequels. He could be telling a story of the past and how the Sith and Jedi of the past fought. Just because Luke Princess Leia and Han Solo in the movie doesn't necessarily mean it's moving forward but more than likely will
     
  17. Ryus

    Ryus Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 25, 2013
    One could argue the tech levels seem too close to the movies even though they're set an amazing ~4,000 years apart. Or Lucas has always more implied the Sith came to be much closer to the movies timeline wise than the games are set as per the lost 20 jedi (EVER)... yet Kotor alone lost hundreds if not thousands of Jedi to the darkside.

    Next off odds are if any time period from the EU will be adapted to film the most likely is KotOR and as such by the games and comics lossing canon status that means future movies are free to adapt it without having to be tied down writing wise by the plot of the games and comics. So its a sound business move and by doing it now saves from having to announce it later once fans thought pre-movie EU was safe.
     
    kubricklynch and Krueger like this.
  18. Krueger

    Krueger Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 9, 2004
    I do agree with this (maybe that will change with time, though). I use SOTE as an example. Unless there's some other epic work released down the line that takes place between TESB and ROTJ and deals with Boba Fett delivering Solo to Jabba the Hutt, then there's no reason why it couldn't have taken place. Maybe. As I said, in time, we'll get a better picture. Maybe some stand-alone novels and comics can be safe, providing they don't step on anyone's toes. Still, its now "non-canon". In all honesty, though, if it doesn't conflict with anything then I don't see how it couldn't have "happened". Same with Deathtroopers. How does that (little self-contained novel) contradict anything? No reason why that should be non-canon.

    However, things like the Darth Plagueis novel and the Darth Bane trilogy (which deal with major events and characters) have gone bye-bye. As much as it pains me to say. Chances are, those two characters in particular will appear somewhere down the line in the new EU (or even in a movie or two), as both were created by Lucas himself.

    Yes, but chances are the new EU will eventually delve into that period (I hope it does). Also, I'm pretty certain that at least a couple of the "spin-offs" will take place in that era (too much potential). So in the long run it’s probably for the best that it be rendered non-canon.
     
    BigAl6ft6 and Ryus like this.
  19. lakhota

    lakhota Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Apr 25, 2014
    What if Princess Leia and Luke Skywalker are just a part of the Jedi Council. They would still be involved in the movie but not play major roles, this would give spotlight to all the new characters
     
    thejeditraitor likes this.
  20. Lurknomore

    Lurknomore Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 18, 2014


    I think you hit the nail on the head. Isn't the plan to release a movie every year? Episode - Spinoff - Episode - Spinoff - Etc... And that's not even mentioning the new books and other merchandise they're going to be releasing on a regular basis as well. It'll be significantly less than 37 years before the canon universe exceeds the Legends universe in size.

    With $4.5 billion+ dollars to make back, I don't blame Disney for clearing the decks. Every EU novel/game/comic/etc. they canonize is one less slice of space and time they could fill with their own product. The new is naturally going to be more lucrative than the old, especially with tie-in movies coming out every year to stoke up and expand the fan base.

    That's not to say that I resent what they're doing. Even though it's purely a business strategy, the result is that they're going to be pumping more canonical entertainment into the Star Wars fandom at a faster rate than ever before. That's good enough for me. :p
     
    purplerain, Krueger and Ryus like this.
  21. Chancellor_Ewok

    Chancellor_Ewok Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2004

    Well no, Luke wouldn't just be part of the Jedi Council. As of Ep VI, he is the last Jedi in the galaxy. EU or no, when the Order gets rebuilt, it will be rebuilt by Luke. That by default makes him the Grand Master of the Jedi Order.
     
    Lurknomore likes this.
  22. Ryus

    Ryus Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 25, 2013
    Isnt Grand Master an EU term? :confused:
     
    Fastback likes this.
  23. lakhota

    lakhota Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Apr 25, 2014
    I guess that makes sense because technically leia is not a Jedi, she could have the force in her or the mediclorines thingy . So what you're saying Luke could be the Grand Wizard
     
  24. Chancellor_Ewok

    Chancellor_Ewok Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2004

    First of all, given the scope of the EU, I think we're going to be seeing a lot of EU terminology simply because we don't know what else to call things, so get used to it. Second, again given the scale of the EU, I would not be at all surprised if the EU became fanon, again simply because there so much of it. Third, this just proves my point. There are going to be people who have no familiarity with Star Wars outside of Ep. VII and don't understand what Star Wars Legends is supposed to mean and are now confronted with two continuities that are totally contradictory. Instead of making things clearer, they're going to be even more confusing.
     
  25. lakhota

    lakhota Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Apr 25, 2014
    Yeah it's really hard to not call an apple and Apple, obviously a lot of terms, Captain ranks ,ships and species were created by the Expanded Universe. So making reference to new items seen in the movie similar or the same in the Expanded Universe is going to be difficult unless it just slap a random name on it. It's going to be really hard for the designers and costumers to come up with unique and different variations that have not been written about. Who knows this might make it more difficult for Disney in the long run
     
    BigAl6ft6 likes this.