****Official SIFO-DYAS Discussion thread****

What tipped you off in EP II?

I thought PM was full of obvious hints.

And the back of the video case to PM, where it says '...and Palpatine, the well known Emperor from the original series, is an ambitious Senator...'

So Palpatine IS the Emperor, simple as that.
Who else Palpatine is remains to seen......

But, if we assume Darth Sideous will be the Dark Lord Sith Emperor, he must be Palpatine. GL already said so.

 

Once again...

Sifo-Dyas (Cif-O-Die-As) sounds nothing like Sidious (Cid-E-Us). Much less Sido-Dyas (Cid-O-Die-As) sounds like Sifo-Dyas does. If it was a mispronouncation, then we should've heard Obi-wan Kenobi, Jango Fett and Boba Fett be mispronounced by the Kamioans. Lucas had intended for it to be Sidious' name mispronounced. Lucas didn't like that and so he changed it to Sifo-Dyas. In doing so, it makes it easier to frame the Jedi for conspiracy to overthrow Palpatine later on.

 

Sifo-Dyas: "You wanna know who I am? I am your Daddy!!!"

Although it's interesting to see IMDB somehow credited it besides Chris Lee (Dooku)'s name!

I wonder, if that's ANY accurate...hmmm ?

 

IMDB takes fan submissions. Whoever sent that in, was using the same theory that Sifo-Dyas is Dooku posted that.

 

The important thing to remember is that Sifo-Dyas was a real Jedi master, not Tyranus, not Sidious, but Sifo-Dyas. However, the real question is who "Sifo-Dyas" is, that is, who called themselves Sifo-Dyas when talking to the Kaminoans. I think a lot of people believe that Sifo-Dyas actually was Tyranus or Sidious or whatever. We know that can't be, since Yoda and Mace knew Sifo-Dyas, and therefore would recognize him whenever they saw Palpatine or Dooku.

You forget that the originally scripted name was Sido-Dios (or Dyas), some coincidence, no?

Yes, but in the original script "Sido-Dyas" wasn't a real Jedi. Mace, Yoda, and Obi-Wan had never heard of the name. I think in the original script "Sido-Dyas" really was Sidious, but in the revision he was changed to be a real Jedi.

 

Sorry to pick nits, Lord Hydronium, but since Tyranus is Dooku, Tyranus is in fact a Jedi Master, or WAS a Jedi Master before he turned to the dark side.

Also, all of this "Sido-Dyas" business from earlier drafts is entirely moot, IMO. We have the movie as is, we have a few deleted scenes (8 or 67 or somewhere in between) that may shed light on the subject, and beyond that we have no information. It's still anyone's guess as to who Sifo-Dyas was, and that will remain true until Ep.III, if then.

 

Here is My question: DOes it Matter?

Does it matter if it's Sidious, or if it's Dooku, and how?

 

I came across some odd information in my 'Dooku a Count AND A Jedi' post here.

Check it out if you'd like; it's short, not 28 pages......

But, it seems Dooku couldn't have the title 'Count' & be a Jedi.

If that's accurate, maybe Dooku WAS Sifa-Dyas.

Sorry, gotta keep this thread going until it's longer than that Whoever-Secura thread.

 

If you go into the Palpatine and Sidious entries on the SW databank, they have different heights (Sidious is about half a foot taller).

 

One wears boots that have lifts in them. The OS also didn't list Anakin having married Padme, until after AOTC came out. We all knew that she would but the OS didn't say nothing until then. Same there.

Dooku wouldn't become a Count until he left the Temple and returned to Serreno.

 

Maybe the six inches includes the hood?

On the Vader or Anakin description, it gives a different height for Anakin & Vader in the costume.....

 

His is because he has bionic legs.

 

Maybe Palpatine slouches!

 

Ok, I watched AOTC again last night, actually I watched the same two scenes over and
over again (yes, I have a bootleg). Scene one that I watched: when Obi goes to
Kamino. Scene two: when Obi reports back to the Council. From that, I have come to
two conclusions:

1: I know when Syfo Dyas died, which then tells me:

2: Who Syfo Dyas is.

From what Obi Wan says in those two scenes I think I am able to "pinpoint" when Syfo
Dyas "died". If what Obi Wan says is the truth and no one (Mace or Yoda) contradicts
him, here is how I came up with Syfo's time of death:

First, Obi Wan tells Lama Su that Syfo Dyas died ALMOST 10 years ago, which would
be AFTER TPM.

Second, when he tells Yoda and Mace about the clones being ordered, he states that he
thought that Syfo Dyas died BEFORE "that". "That" being the time when the clones
are ordered.

So, if Syfo Dyas died almost 10 years ago (around the end of TPM) and also died before
the clone order, then Syfo Dyas had to have "died" between those two events.

Example: Syfo dies 9.5 years ago (almost 10 years), then the clones are ordered
9-9.25 years ago (making Syfo dead before the order was placed).

Now that would make Obi Wan's statements correct. However, it would make the clones
younger than they appear (which is really not that big of difference) BUT it would also
place Syfo Dyas on the Jedi Council DURING TPM, that is, if he was truly on the council.
Which I don't believe he was.

So from this, we see that Syfo Dyas died between the "almost 10 years" date and the
"clone order" date. Which both are AFTER TPM.

That would exclude Maul, since he was killed in TPM. For Maul to be Syfo Dyas, he would
have had to have "faked" his death years before TPM in order to be trained by Sidious.
But if what I said above is correct, he would have "died" OVER 10 years ago, not
ALMOST.

It would also exclude Qui Gon, since he too was killed in TPM. For it to be him, the clone
order would have had to be placed "before" he died in TPM, but we that that is not the
case.

The problem is the small "window of opportunity" my example above created. It created
the fact that if Syfo Dyas was a member of the Jedi Council, we would have seen him in
TPM. But we know all the members in TPM. So he couldn't have been on the Council
during TPM.

The only other possibilty is that during TPM Syfo Dyas was a "former" member of the Jedi
Council but is still alive. He then "dies" shortly after TPM (almost 10 years ago) and
either he, himself, orders the clones or someone assumes his identity to order them.

If he, himself, orders the clones, he would have had to fake his death with the Jedi but
that creates two problems. It would mean that he is in league with Sidious and thus, a
new character and storyline in EPIII. But wouldn't that violate the "Rule of two"? No.
Many people are aiding Sidious (Gunray, Poggle, et al), but they are not all Sith are
they? No. Syfo Dyas may help Sidious believing that he is helping the Republic fight
against cor

 

Since the Jedi know that someone who helped with the clone army was someone named "Darth Tryanus", then they know that the clone army is ordered by the sith, no?

I think theyd know there being screwed by the republic supreme chancellor then.

 

I was wondering, since Syfo dissapears 10 years prior to AOTC which is roughly around the time of TPM, couldn't you in theory go back and view TPM, look at the members on the Jedi council (which the prime minister of Kamino states syfo is a member of) and then look at then look at the members on the council in AOTC and then which ever members on no longer there could be Syfo. If this ends up being the case that would add so much continuity to the series and truely connect the films. That is of course considering that Lucas thought that far ahead and didn't just decide to play by his own rules, which common sense tells me he did. i would love to get some opinions on this.

 

[color=336699]There WAS a real Syfo-Dias thats not the question...The question is whether or not he really placed a Clone Army order



~ICeBReaKeR[/color]
He has never been cooler...

 

The whole Count Dooku is Sifo Dyas holds credence. Obi-Wan believes Sifo Dyas was killed more than 10 years ago...but this is what the Jedi told him.
When he left the Jedi order he ceased to be Sifo Dyas and became Count Dooku.
This teaches Obi-Wan the certain POV and explains why he lied to Luke.

 

Sifo Dyas is.......

Yarael Poof!

 

>>>>>Since the Jedi know that someone who helped with the clone army was someone named "Darth Tryanus", then they know that the clone army is ordered by the sith, no?

I don't believe they know that.
Obi-Wan finds out that the clones were ordered by "Jedi Master Sifo-Dyas" & that Jango was "Recruited on the moons of (I forget) by a man named Tyrannus."

I don't believe they hear "Darth Tarannus" once in the movie.
I don't believe we do either. Darth Sideous calls him "Lord Tarannus" at the end of the movie, doesn't he?

 

Yes, but he is still Lord Darth Tyranus. All Sith are credited as that. The Jedi probably know that Dooku is Tyrnaus, since Jango was seen talking Dooku. But I don't think they know that Dooku is a Sith, working with Sidious. That's a bit hard to tell.

 

Up.

I have an interesting theory - Obi-Wan doesn't know who Sifo-Dyas is. He was just playing along with the Kaminoans. Notice the slight pause before he said "Sifo Dyas was killed almost ten years ago". I could have sworn he was thinking about Qui-Gon but wanted to cover things up so the Kaminoans wouldn't think anything of it.

 

It is clearly explained in AOTC---I'm laugingly confused by the misinterpretation of events.

It's clear what has taken place...

1) Obi-Wan finds that a Jedi named Sifo-Dias commissoned a clone army 10 years previously.

2) Obi asks Jango who hired him for the project, he states Tyannus (Dooku)---this is the answer, it's very clear.

3) During the Obi, Yoda, and Mace discussion that follows, it is clear that this order for the clones took place AFTER the death of Sifo-Dias.

4) The death of Sifo and the departure of Dooku from the Jedi order seemed timed perfectly, PLUS---Yoda states that only a Jedi could have changed the Kamino files; it only makes sense that Dooku is behind all of this at the behest of his new leader Palpy.

It's simple, don't expect there to be any more info on these subjects in Eppy 3. If anything Dooku the JEDI will be blamed for the clone wars, and along with that---the rep of the Jedi themselves will be tarnished.

Goodnight now...

 

After some intense research, I think I know who portrayed Sifo-Dyas. Qui-Gon Jinn. I know, I know, a lot of people do not believe Qui-Gon to have portryed Sifo-Dyas. First of all, I think we can all agree that the same person who portrayed Sifo-Dyas was the same person who erased Kamino's data from the Jedi Archives in order to cover their tracks. I did some research on the Internet and watched AOTC for clues. My method was to take everyone who could have portrayed Sifo-Dyas and then use a process of elimination until I narrowed it down to just one. Let me explain why I think some characters didn't portray Sifo-Dyas, and why I strongly believe Qui-Gon did. Here's the list of the most likely candidates:

The Real Sifo-Dyas
Count Dooku
Palpatine/Sidious
Darth Maul
*Qui-Gon Jinn

The Real Sifo-Dyas:

Let me begin by saying that through my research, I confirmed that there was a real Sifo-Dyas, and he was once a Jedi Master of small renown. But I don't think the question is, "Who is Sifo-Dyas?" I think the question is, "Who portrayed Sifo-Dyas?" A line from AOTC implies that Sifo-Dyas was, indeed, dead before TPM: (Obi-Wan to Yoda & Mace) " They say a Sifo-Dyas placed the order for the clones almost ten ten years ago. I was under the impression he was killed before that." If you watch AOTC very closely, you'll realize that throughout the entire movie, George Lucas is giving very subtle hints about who portrayed Sifo-Dyas. This line was George's way of saying that it was not the real Sifo-Dyas who placed the order. Also, Sifo-Dyas was supposed to be a leading member of the Jedi Council, yet he was not seen in TPM. That means he must have been killed before it.

Count Dooku:

I must admit that before doing my research, I thought Dooku would be the most likely candidate, however, I was very wrong. If you go to the Unofficial Star Wars Encyclopedia, a branch off the Force.Net, you'll see evidence that Dooku did not portray Sifo-Dyas. Under the entry Darth Tyranus, it states that Darth Tyranus and Sifo-Dyas worked together to establish the clone army. Now how could they work together if they were one and the same person? They can't. Also, why on Earth would Count Dooku have to use two different names to accomplish the same goal. It doesn't add up. With all these clues, I cannot see how Dooku could have portrayed Sifo-Dyas.

Palpatine/Sidious:

Assuming Palpatine and Sidious are one and the same, I do not believe they placed the order for the clones. At first, I thought it was a very likely scenario, based on Palpatine being a high-ranking official on Coruscant. I thought he would have easy access to the Jedi Archives, until something that I had missed before popped up in AOTC. This line is another one of George Lucas's many subtle, often over-looked clues in AOTC: (Yoda to Obi-Wan) "Only a Jedi could have erased those files." Boom! I believe that was George's way of saying "It's a Jedi who erased the files, not a Sith or a non-Force talented person."

Darth Maul:

Once again: "Only a Jedi could have erased those files." I don't care how isolated the kaminoans were from the rest of the galaxy, Darth Maul could not pull himself off to be a Jedi Master! This is one situation where physical appearance plays a big part. And, can you just imagine Maul trying to pull off being a Jedi in the Jedi Temple to erase the files! That is hilarious! Darth Maul did not portray Sifo-Dyas. There is just no way!

*Qui-Gon Jinn:

I strongly believe that Qui-Gon portryed Sifo-Dyas. First of all, we all know Qui-Gon's role in the Star Wars saga is far from over. I know this is the non-spoilers section, but I think by now it's pretty common knowledge that George Lucas has confirmed that Qui-Gon will play a part in Episode III. He's supposed to have something to do with the whole Jedi disappearance issue, but I think he will also reveal or it will be found out that he portrayed Sifo-Dyas. Second, isn't it ironic how in AOTC, Count Dooku reveals to Obi-Wan that Qui-Gon was his apprentice, and then we find out Tyran

 

PDZSY: Very good research! However, you seem to be missing another subtle clue in AOTC.

Dooku says this to Obi-Wan regarding Qui-Gon: "He knew all about the corruption in the Senate, but he would never have gotten along with it had he learned the truth, as I have."
He then goes on to tell Obi-Wan this truth, being that the Republic is under the control of a Sithlord.

If Qui-Gon didn´t know this, how could he be involved? It seems obvious that Dooku joined Sidious so he could destroy him. Surely he would let Qui-Gon in on that?

No, I believe that Palpatine was the one who portrayed Sifo-Dyas. It was Dooku who erased Kamino from the Jedi archives, though.