****Official SIFO-DYAS Discussion thread****

Sounds good to me! ...whatever you just said.

I think we all want the same thing ; A cool movie. And I think we'll get it, regardless of what they do with this whole Sifo-Dyas thing.
In E3 I really think Sidious will be shown as the master that he is. He has been twisting & turning people for years and its all gonna come to a head. He could have easily manipulated another Jedi if he was able to do it with Anakin and Dooku. Those are some strong minds, IMO. I think he waited for people he wanted and chose them. They didnt chose him, y'know?
As much as I like the idea of a new character, I'm not sure we'll get one. I mean, it makes sense that we would because It seems theres a new "villain" in every movie (right?). But it also seems like it might be too much for the film. There's a LOT of stuff to cover already. But hey, if some guy steps from the shadows & everyone gasps "Sifo-Dyas! You're alive!!!!" , then I just hope its done in a way that serves the existing story. We dont need another story about another guy who turned. Its seems like overkill. It also takes away from the impact of a Jedi turning to the darkside, IMO. I thought it was a pretty rare thing.
If SD turns out to be someone we already know, its quick & its easy & its over.

On to the killins!!!

 

Upping this thread to present an idea of mine. Could the real Sifo-Dyas have placed the order?
Could Sifo-Dyas have forseen an army rising under a Sith and ordered the clone army for that date - then erased the archive data to keep any other Jedi from stumbling onto his project...and then been intercepted and killed by Dooku?

The tragedy/irony of this would keep with the rest of the PT. And it ties up a lot of the plot threads of AOTC.

 

"Intercepted" by the guy who would have found the clone host for that very order? That doesnt make sense.
Remember - Dooku recruited Jango. He was in on the plan from the beginning. (Sidious' plan. This was not an actual attempt for the Jedi to defend the republic. It was a trick.)
Then the order was placed.
So, if Sifo-Dyas placed the order himself, I think its safe to say - they had to be working together.
Which doesnt seem right to me. Its too much to explain without even having the character onscreen.

And BTW, now that means there were 3 bad guys working together. 2 of which we KNOW are Sith. (and there are only 2)

Possible, but .... what a crappy story. (IMO )

 

I don't know if this has been posted so excuse me if it's the case.

Many people have been arguing which person Sifo-Dyas is.
I think I know. It must be Shaak Ti. No jokes.

If you look closely in the background during Obi-Wan's visit to the Jedi Archives you can clearly see Shaak Ti and who is the personal security to Palpatine in the next movie? You name it, Shaak Ti.
She is the perfect spy for Palpatine, that is why he kills her during EPIII.

GL also said that the person that tempered with the files was revealed during EPII.

What do you think people?
Give me your opinions

 

How could it be Shaak Ti if the Jedi knew Syfo was dead?

Dead in the Ben Kenobi sense: There was a venerable old Jedi who was betrayed and murdered by Count Dooku.

Think about it, how does Obi-Wan gain this rather interesting perception of good and evil? Yoda perhaps?

 

Well Palps won't kill Shaak Ti in episode III cause she died in the last episode of the clone wars. But she could still be Sifo I guess.

 

I think what's clever about AOTC is that in the Clone Wars although we're rooting for the republic it wouldn't really matter if we rooted for the other side (the seperatists) because in the end the republic is taken over by the Emperor and the Seperatists seem to dissapear (now that Sidius/the emperor got what he aimed for) and our band of favourite heroes batch off into their own Rebellion againsts what was the republic and we kind of end up rooting for the other team.

Kind of cool, really!

 

Obi-Wan said that Sifo-Dyas was killed... So, how could someone who was killed be walking around the Jedi Temple?

I already know Obi-Wan's logic, but that would be too much...

 

Who was he?

I had posted a topic/thread discussing this and doctoryoda came by and kindly directed me here.

Was his intentions good or bad when he made that order for the Clone Army?
Was he already bad when he placed that order or was he still good?
If he was still good when he placed it, did he think that the Republic would benefit from it?
Did the ones in the Senate and/or Jedi Council who knew about this order really believe that the Clone Army was a good thing?
Who was his former Jedi Master?
Who was his Padawan learner?
Was he around in TPM? Or did he die right before TPM?

Obi-Wan said he died 10 years before AotC. That would make him alive during TPM.

If this has been discussed before I came along right now then I apologize. I'm more of a OT fan than a PT fan, although I have seen both TPM and AotC a few times.

 

Qui Gon is Syfa Dias.
The real reason he was interested in Anakin was because
he would be the perfect Clone Candidate. With the unprecedented number of midiclorians and Jedi Training,an Army of Anakins would have been unstoppable.
Allthough i think the idea of a Cloned Qui Gon being killed by Darth Maul is Lame. I won't rule out the reappearance of Qui Gon, after all There could have been a prototype of Vaders Suit. With that scenario it could explain why Neeson has not been seen in Sydney and all they needed was his voice.
I know it may sound ridiculous but it is just a theory.

 

Sifo-Dyas perhaps could have been one of the foremost members of the Jedi Council. Maybe perhaps even more powerful then Count Dooku himself at the time, but then, as seems to be the case throughout AOTC and in the TPM, another politically oriented Jedi Council mission gets Qui-Gon Jinn killed, wastefully I might add, in Count Dooku?s judgment.

So Dooku finds himself leaving the Jedi order. But remember when Obi-Was said a commitment to the Jedi order is a commitment not easily broken. So I presume that the only way a Jedi truly leaves the order is if he is somehow turned to the dark side. So Dooku turns to the dark side and then leaves the order. This is important for me that he does not leave the order belonging to the good side, then only later to become an apprentice of Darth Sidious. But rather, to a certain extent, Dooku is merely a Dark Jedi at the end of TPM. Now Sidious senses this and then approaches Dooku with his plan to destroy the Jedi and take over the Galaxy. Perfect marriage, and this is where Sifo-Dyas comes in. Sifo-Dyas tries, much like Luke did with Vader to convert Dooku back to the good side, but unfortunately Sifo-Dyas fails, partly because Dooku overwhelmed him in a one on one mêlée. So then, Sifo-Dyas in light of all this, hastily removes the records from the archives and then proceeds to order the Clone Army, but the clones were to be clones of himself, not of Jango-Fett, which would give the Jedi the unlimited number of Jedi that would be needed since Sifo-Dyas had a dream of all Jedi being extinct. Nevertheless, Sidious saw all of this, and has much easier access to Jedi then did Dooku, personally takes out Sifo-Dyas on Courasant as senator Palpatine from Naboo, and then orders Dooku to recruit a bounty hunter to fill the order Sifo-Dyas placed unbeknown to the Jedi council. Which explains why Sifo-Dyas placed the order but why Dooku merely recruited Jango. We would have to assume that Jango-fett knew Sifo-Dyas to assume that Sifo-Dyas and Dooku are one and the same. But we don?t have to assume that the cloners couldn?t adjust their order placed by Sifo-Dyas from Dooku, who only recently detached himself from the Jedi Order.

 

Qui-Gon is Sifo Dyas

whoever said that you, read my mind. I was going to post exactly what you did!

 

"Qui-Gon is Sifo Dyas
whoever said that you, read my mind. I was going to post exactly what you did!"

I think it's entirely possible that Qui-Gon may have chosen that name as an alias when going on various missions, and if so, I think that OB1, Dooku, Mace and Yoda would have known this. This would explain the shocked looks of OB1, Yoda and Mace when they find out that 'Sifo-Dyas' ordered the clones and the fact that they didn't customarily refer to Qui-Gon as Sifo.

The fact that Dooku knew this might explain why he used that name to order the clones, whether or not he knew that Qui-Gon had been killed. One might say that Qui-Gon was a victim of identity theft.

I don't believe Qui-Gon himself had anything to do with ordering the clones or erasing the archives. His story is pretty much told in TPM.

I don't like the idea of Sifo being just another Jedi who just happened to have died at the same time as Qui-Gon. If he were, why wasn't he at least mentioned in TPM? I think this unnecessarily complicates the story and as for the objection that Qui-Gon was never on the Jedi Council, we only have Lama Su's unsubstantiated word.

 

I think it's entirely possible that Qui-Gon may have chosen that name as an alias when going on various missions, and if so, I think that OB1, Dooku, Mace and Yoda would have known this.

the only problem with your post is in bold.

if obi-wan knew who sifo was at all he did not know him well and did not know this piece of information, if you're right that is.

"i was under the impression he was killed before that"

is a careful choice of words not meant to imply certainty.

i think sifo-dyas was dooku as a master, either his name at the time or an alias.

but your theory is every bit as valid at this point, other than obi-wan couldn't have known.

 

"if obi-wan knew who sifo was at all he did not know him well and did not know this piece of information, if you're right that is."

How do you know this?

"'i was under the impression he was killed before that'
is a careful choice of words not meant to imply certainty"

But OB1 told Lama Su that "Master Sifo-Dyas was killed almost 10 years ago." That doesn't sound so uncertain to me! The quote you cite was said in the context of when the clones were ordered and whether Qui-Gon/Sifo could have had anything to do with ordering them. He could also have said that "I was under the impression that the clones were ordered after he was killed."

 

But OB1 told Lama Su that "Master Sifo-Dyas was killed almost 10 years ago." That doesn't sound so uncertain to me! The quote you cite was said in the context of when the clones were ordered and whether Qui-Gon/Sifo could have had anything to do with ordering them. He could also have said that "I was under the impression that the clones were ordered after he was killed."


context?

you actualy accuse me of missing the context when you're twisting and spinning the context like this?

the first thing he said when told the name sifo-dyas is go:

"master who?"

it was a combination of shock and disbelief on obi's face and ewan carried it off beautifuly.

it's as if someone told you that president george washington had stoped by this afternoon.

he simply didn't believe his ears.

feel free to dissagree but watch the whole sequence from the minute obi-wan lands and assume he doesn't know sifo personaly, tell me it doesn't work perfectly that way.

 

Malikail-Please accept my apology, it wasn't my intention to upset you. I was merely attempting to explain my position.

 

consider it forgoten, i word things terribly sometimes.

i wasn't actualy upset, i was laughing, it was to me like a pot calling the kettle black moment.

but when i reread my post i see why you took it as me being upset, my dry sense of humor translates poorly.

sorry if i made you think i was offended or offended you.

and your possition is imo very possible, but try what i suggest watch those scenes and assume for a moment obi-wan has only heard of sifo, not met him ever.

it does work perfectly that way as well.

saddly i doubt we will ever get that detail sorted out, it is not being treated as important it seems.

 

Thanks for the info. Now I understand.

 

I too believe Qui Gon is Syfa Dyas.

But for the most part, I believe this because who died around 10 years ago? Qui Gon did. The look on their faces may imply they all knew Qui Gon was also known as Syfa Dyas, perhaps as a code name or a name he took while under Count Dooku.

So when Obi-Wan said he died around 10 years ago, he knows, because he was there. Qui Gon being Dooku's apprentice, would be the perfect link for Dooku to choose J. Fett as the cloneie.

Did Qui Gon know Count Dooku was of the Dark Side? If not, he perhaps consulted his former master of his plan, for visions he had of what time will bring. Also, I believe he deleted the files of Kamino. Simply because he was high up, and could have been on the council if he didn't have his own views. And he wanted to cover up his plan, so no one else would know or stop it.

I highly doubt the Jedi Council would allow him to do such a thing if they were aware of it, which is why he did it under his alias/codename/whatever and deleted the files of Kamino. Remember, he was rebelious and would defy the order.



Well these are my two cents, and since for Episode III under Dooku and Palpatine it says they are not Sifo-Dyas, he is next I would assume was. But then again, it said Chancellor Palpatine was never Sifo-Dyas, but didn't say anything about Darth Sidious being Sifo-Dyas... Which could also mean Palpatine and Sidious are seperate beings, which would be a wierd twist.

 

I believe that Sifo-Dyas was a Jedi who died shortly before TPM and that Dooku or Sidious used his name when placing the order for the clone army.
Why? To frame the Jedi in ROTS, of course! Since Sifo-Dyas is dead, he can't deny that he did it and the Jedi will look like a bunch of crooks who has started a war to gain control of the galaxy!

 

I just don't like how Sifo-Dyas' and Qui-Gon's death are close together, if not the same, and that is the reason that Qui-Gon is Sifo. It's just too convenient to me. Lucas has a way of letting things LOOK obvious but that is not what it is at all. But, on the other hand, I have no other alternative choice for who he/she may be so it could very well be true. Hey, speaking of she, how about Zam Wessel (sp?), the bounty hunter? She was a changeling, maybe she posed as Sifo after he died and ordered the clones. She knew Jango. Maybe Jango recruited her to order the clones after he talked to Tyranus. She probably didn't have to prove she was a Jedi since we didn't see OB1 have to prove himself. I don't know, just a thought.

 

Why does Sifo-Dyas have to be someone in the movies? Why can't it just be a name, someone we don't know?

 

Whether this helps you out or not, "The character who ordered the clones was seen onscreen in Ep2." - StarWars.com Webmaster

So that blows all theories out of the water concerning Qui-Gon.


"The Jedi who ordered the clone army will be revealed in Ep3" - George Lucas

It certainly is a puzzling one. More to the fact that that Obi-wan says that he was killed over ten years ago, when according to the site, he was alive... I can't wait to find out who this is =o)