Official Site Discussion Thread: Confirmed Characters

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith (Non-Spoilers)' started by Mace Windy, Jul 5, 2003.

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  1. Ghost_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2003
    star 5
    In E1, Maul is just a kick-A Sith. Nothing really to connect the dots. I guess I should have said just E's 2 & 3.
    But couldn't that description be used for Vader, if we didn't know the truth about Anakin?
  2. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    I don't think so, Ghost.

    Keep in mind we don't even get to see the Emperor until ESB, and that doesn't really count.

    Vader is THE villain for the OT, and is always up there as one of the top villains of all time.

    His height, black armor, James Earl Jones voice with the respirator.

    His hidden (until now) past with Obi-Wan Kenobi. His relationship with Luke.

    Even his one-liners are hilarious.

    No, I'm afraid Vader, even without Anakin, is far, far more compelling and fascinating than Darth Maul could ever be.

    Don't get me wrongo, though - Maul was a great character for what he was supposed to be.
  3. Ghost_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2003
    star 5
    But Garthif you think of Maul's & Vader's roles in the beginning of each of the triology they both serve as the killing tool for Palps. In anh, Palps has full power, there is no longer a senate, and Vader is used to crush all rebels and dissidents. He lets his fingers do his talking. In tpm, Sidious is lurking in the shadows, and as a such he needs the same from his henchman. He needs someone to strike fast, and be gone. Plus w/ his face design, the horns on his head, and those yellow eyes. Than we see that double ended light saber, I remember seeing it the advertising and was awed.
  4. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    I agree that perhaps Vader and Maul have similar roles in ANH.

    I suppose you're right - Vader seems to function with the Imperial Chiefs of Staff onboard the Death Star in the same way Maul hovers behind the TF guys in TPM.

    But what I mean is that Vader's part is much bigger, even in ANH - don't forget that Obi-Wan tells Luke that Darth Vader was his pupil and he killed Luke's father! Big news!

    How did he turn? Will Luke get revenge? Et cetera.

    Whereas with Maul, he's cool, lethal, and mysterious, but not as compelling.

    IMHO. ;)
  5. Obi-Bob Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 1999
    star 2
    Good point Ghost,

    I didn't see the connection there. In a way, Vader is just a bad-A. If it weren't for his obsession with Luke he'd be on a tear. In ANH, he was. In ESB he REALLY was, just killing off anyone who got in his way (allies included). He tortured Han for no other reason than to lure Luke to Cloud City.

    But you have a point too, Garth. Vader is much more complex. But I think you can see the paralels in each of the PT guys in Vader. The ruthlessness of Maul, the former Jedi connection in Dooku, and the mechanics of Grevious. Are these the reasons the Council believes Anakin can not be saved in the end?

    I wonder if this is intentional on Lucas' part? Or if it just worked out that way. He is clever, he may have surprized us all with this depth.
  6. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    I'm still not convinced that Obi-Wan and Yoda have given up on Anakin just yet in the OT.

    Everything they teach Luke seems to point to NOT fighting - Obi-Wan's surrender and disappearance when dueling Vader on the Death Star (there is a time not to fight).

    Yoda's insistence on being calm and at peace, and to beware the Dark Side and not to underestimate the powers of the Emperor.

    I think they're testing Luke's resolve - "you gotta kill your dad"; "no, there's still good in him"; "no, there's not Luke, he's more machine than man now"; "no, YOU'RE wrong, I can still save him - I have to try".

    I realize it seems that Yoda and Ben definitely want Luke to kill Vader, but they never say "kill" - they always say "confront", which is a completely different thing.

    Plus, Luke becomes a Jedi when he throws his lightsaber away - I think that lesson is what Ben and Yoda wanted him to learn the most.


    Hmm...

    Yoda says "Do not underestimate the powers of the Emperor...or suffer your father's fate you will."

    Perhaps Anakin will feel trapped, in much the same way Luke did in the Throne Room scene.

    He has to defeat Vader and Palps, but how? He can't give into his hate, but perhaps otherwise he can't defeat them.

    And I can't see Anakin throwing away his saber...
  7. KaaShamau Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2000
    star 4
    New(?) picture of the General from Homing Beacon 105 here.

    No wait, here.


    But I think you can see the paralels in each of the PT guys in Vader. The ruthlessness of Maul, the former Jedi connection in Dooku, and the mechanics of Grevious.

    Cool observation! :D
  8. Obi-Bob Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 1999
    star 2
    Interesting point Garth. They never do say "kill Vader".
  9. stormcloud8 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2002
    star 4
    Wow, that is quite an interesting thought. I had never considered that perhaps Yoda and Ben are pushing Luke to confront Anakin, knowing full well that Anakin could turn back and save the day.

    Perhaps there will be something in III that will make it clearer that they will wait quietly for the day when the Chosen One will finally fulfill the prophecy.
  10. RebelScum77 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 2003
    star 6
    I agree with you as well Maul... I'm reposting this from a thread in the Writer Resource Forum called The Demonization of Anakin Skywalker and the Sainthood of Obi-Wan Kenobi- a character discussion

    This very question was debated hotly there, click on it if you're interested.

    I honestly don't believe for a second that Obi-Wan really wanted Luke to kill his father. I think Yoda and Obi-Wan had the Prophecy in mind all the time. They knew that to turn back Vader he would have to be confronted by his son. He had to face the fact that he and Padme's son still existed. Of course, there is still danger, and Luke had to wait until the appropriate age to know the truth- to begin fulfilling his own destiny. I don't think it's really a coincedence that Luke is about the same age as Anakin when he fell. Obi-Wan sacrificed himself for both Luke and Vader. He had to light a fire under Luke's butt, give him the passion to fight (to death *if* that's what it comes down to). But perhaps more importantly he was getting himself out of the way. I can't believe that even 20 years of Darkness later, Obi-Wan's death didn't somehow affect Vader (the Anakin part of him). And with Obi-Wan gone (who Anakin saw as a manipulator) Luke has to trust his own feelings. His belief in the goodness of Vader is real, there is no one pulling the strings. Vader needs to see that, to feel it's implication. The only one that believes in him is his own long lost son, the child of he and Padme's love.


  11. Obi-Bob Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 1999
    star 2
    This thread sure took an interesting turn.

    Great points all around guys.
  12. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    Nice quote, RS_77.

    It's sort of like what Yoda tells Dooku, "much to learn, you still have". Dooku right before tells Yoda he is more powerful than any Jedi, and zaps him with Sith Lightning - yet Yoda ABSORBS it! That was one of the coolest things I have ever seen - TOTALLY unexpected.

    Anyway, back on our (off) topic - it's like Obi-Wan's final lesson to Luke and Vader in ANH - sometimes, you win by not fighting. I think the fact that Ben disappeared really affected Vader.

    FORGET THIS NONSENSE - CHECK OUT TFN MAIN PAGE - NEW PIC OF THE GENERAL FROM SW INSIDER!!!

    Boy, he looks "twisted and evil". At first I was like WTF, now I'm like WTF in a good way. [face_laugh]
  13. Darth_Banal Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2002
    star 6
    Impressive new pic. Most impressive.

    I expected a bit more skin and bones from the mental image I made from the description. But I guess "He's more machine now than man, twisted and evil." 8-}
  14. KaaShamau Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2000
    star 4
    Wow, I like that! Very skeletal. :D
  15. DamonD Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 22, 2002
    star 6
    I'm gonna resist looking, but I would like to know...is it a new image from the CW cartoon, or the first shot of how Grievous will look in Ep3?
  16. Obi-Bob Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 1999
    star 2
    Hey,

    We're going to see it in promos. I'm on my way.
  17. Lord_Hydronium Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2002
    star 5
    Damon: It's not from the cartoon, but it looks like concept art to me, as opposed to a CG rendering. It shows a lot though (his whole upper body), and it's pretty detailed, so if you don't want to know a lot about what he looks like for now, I guess you should skip it. It's a pretty cool picture, though.

    I gotta say, that picture has really made me change my stance on Grievous (Heh! That's a fun name to type). I mean, before I didn't really have much of an opinion on him, and what I heard sounded kind of iffy, but that picture is just cool. Not even in an "omg teh dark and kewl" fanboy sort of way. Even if I didn't know about the whole cyborg or lightsaber thing, that's still a damn neat looking villain. Much better than his portrayal on the cover of the Boba Fett book.

    At first I was like WTF, now I'm like WTF in a good way.

    My thoughts exactly.
  18. -_-_-_-_-_- Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 28, 2002
    star 6
    Actually, Chewbacca's "introduction" in ANH made sense, because if you believe this is something GL has had in mind from the begining...then it explains why obi-Wan would walk right up to him.

    Agreed. That would fit together nicely. Old friends coming together after all of these years to resume their battle against the Empire.
  19. Obi-Bob Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 1999
    star 2
    Morse-code guy,

    Very true. That will make it a cool reason to bring Chewie and Han into the fold in ANH.

    I mentioned that in a thread once before and got hammered by many people for suggesting Obi-Wan knew Chewbacca. Oh well.
  20. DamonD Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 22, 2002
    star 6
    So long as Obi-Wan does meet up with Chewie in Ep3...I guess only the spoiler guys would know for certain.

    Hope so, because (as said) it makes the cantina scene look better...you could imagine that Obi-Wan had travelled down to Mos Eisley every so often and bumped into Chewie a few times there.
  21. RebelScum77 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 2003
    star 6
    Hope so, because (as said) it makes the cantina scene look better...you could imagine that Obi-Wan had travelled down to Mos Eisley every so often and bumped into Chewie a few times there.

    That could also happen between Episodes III and IV. ;)
  22. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    Meh. I'm not convinced they have to meet.

    In fact, I'd prefer it if they didn't - Lucas shouldn't try to establish a connection between every PT rock and OT blade of grass.

    It's more likely that Ben saw a Wookiee in a Mos Eisley bar (this sounds like a joke) and was curious - and maybe thought as well that the Wookiee would be more trustworthy and honorable than the other denizens of the cantina.
  23. DamonD Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 22, 2002
    star 6
    That could also happen between Episodes III and IV.

    I should've made it clearer, because that's exactly what I meant.
  24. NiktosRule Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2001
    star 4
    Am I the only one who thinks Grievous looks terrible. I didn't like the cartoon pictures of him nor do I like the insider pic. He just looks too ridiculous and fake to me. Hopefully my opinion changes once I actually see him in the movie. However at this point I really don't like the design.
  25. KaaShamau Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2000
    star 4
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