Full Series Official Star Wars Rebels Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Like Greedo getting to shoot?

 

Bit off topic here....but anyone played the rebels pinball table on Zen Pinball?

 

I dunno, it is both pretty bad, it would rob the whole funeral scene of meaning.

 

This just reminded me. The show should explain how Vader learns how to become a force ghost after death. Perhaps in a similar yet a more darksided version arc than Yoda's final TCW arc.

 

That's tricky, as after TCW season six Sith are not supposed to become ghosts. I guess they could show Vader trying to learn from the Whill-priestesses - but failing. They could say something "we will only show you the way once you are ready" to him, which of course would confuse him a lot.

 

Qui-Gon's body didn't disappear either, but his and Vader's deaths are supposed to be the exception rather than the rule.

 

Given that only 4 people Force Ghost (Qui-Gon, Yoda, Obi-Wan, Vader) what exactly is the rule?

 

Filoni and Chee I think it was, on some interview hinted at that once Anakin learned that Jinn was on Mortis for real, via Yoda's chat exhange in season 6 - Anakin had started communing with Jinn on his own. Also in that arc, I think Anakin briefly heard Jinn. Which supposedly, now we're forced to believe Jinn once again took it upon himself to train him thus rendering Yoda's journey and being "chosen" completely pointless and stupid. That is despite the "Anakin ,noooo" in AOTC that Yoda hears through the force during the Sand People slaughter. But Jinn on TCW has no doubts Anakin is the chosen one ect, with firm belief in Anakin. Also Anakin's bringing balance to the force, again seems thrown out with the sequel trilogy.

 

About this, the dark cannot exist without the light. That being said, I had always taken the line of bringing balance to the force being misinterpreted by the Council and Jinn as well. I think that Yoda, Kenobi, and Windu mused on the same thought in ROTS. In a manner, Anakin did bring balance to the force, just not in the way that they thought he would. In the PT we see that the Jedi vastly out number the Sith, or at least that is what we are lead to believe. Arguably the darkside aligned force users as shown in TCW exist largely in secret or small sects (looking at the night sisters) and in small numbers than the Jedi did at the time. Through the destruction of the Jedi Order, the numbers of dark and light force users is somewhat equalized even though the methods used are questionable (younglings).

Anyways, that's my take on it from my certain point of view.

 

I always took it as Anakin destroyed Banes Legacy and thus the Sith were no more

There can still be darksiders.

 

I can see that, but I was talking about sheer numbers, the volume in the amount of force users on either side.

 

So your saying the force was imbalance before Bane decided to in acted the ROT.

 

Uh..... I'm not really sure what you are trying to ask here, but I am talking about 10,000 strong Jedi order versus two sith, the night sisters/brothers sects (number unknown, but Talzin was killed right?), Maul, and possibly Ventress (we can still put her here if she is slightly rehabilitated from her darkside ways right?) for known darksiders at the time of ROTS. The numbers of users favors the Jedi, force use ability aside.

 

Ah now i see what you mean but look at it this way

I think we can take out ventress/Maul/Nightsisters/brothers because

Ventress may or may not be dead by the end of DD
Maul I highly doubt lived that long after the clone wars
and I am pretty sure the night sisters and brothers are completely gone so at this point we have the following as of Rebels

Kanan
Ezra
Obi
Yoda

Vader
Sheev
New Inquistor
New Inquistor

Did I understand you correctly if not you can say so.

 

Jedi Knight Fett

Correct, you're on the same track of thought as I am now.

 

jabberwalkie
Hm, it can be seen different ways.

Sure, you can view it as a kind of weighing scale, with the number of Jedi and Sith on opposing sides.

But there are also those that call the Sith abilities unnatural and the dark side itself unnatural. In this scenario, the Sith are like Devils and the Jedi like angels. The more power the Devils get, the more unnatural and perverted the galaxy would become, until even whole planets fall prey to the corruption. The Jedi would exist as guardians, who protect the balance (which still contains some conflict and destruction, just not extreme amounts of it).

 

I get where you are coming from, and the way I have been looking at it is that is that power average for the force users between the dark and light end up being somewhat equal which allows for slight variance in numbers. So now that Sheev is gone by ROTJ and Vader turned from the darkside, something has to fill that void. Two ways to do that is either by numbers or power and skill. In Rebels we are seeing Inquisitors to supplement the amount of Sith in the darkside of the force users category. One would imagine that for the balance, with the alignment of Inquisitors serving the Sith it would lead us to believe that there are likely other light force users still out in the galaxy.

The problem with measuring power is that there really isn't a clear cut way to do it unless we know their midichlorian count I guess. So without that, we are left to guess in that regard. I guess you could argue that the Imperial forces supplement the power of the Sith, but just not in the ways of the force.

Things can ebb and flow in one side to the other, and then if one side gets too powerful it leads to a detrimental fall.

 

It was never about the numbers of force users, IMHO.

 

I really don't see how raw power contributes to 'balance' at all. There more types of ability/strength than merely numbers or perceived brute power anyways.

 

Good i can see where your coming from but I still hold the GLs original on this.

 

So the absence of balance is balance? Did I understand that correctly?

 

Well, I think both interpretations have their strengths as well as their flaws. I'm more tending towards the "Sith are perverted" school of thought because that's what the protagonists tell us over and over again but I am a bit struggling with the dark side itself being unnatural. Fear, anger and aggression, even greed, are all important survival mechanisms, so how can the force that embodies these things really be unnatural? Maybe the dark side itself is natural, it is just not meant to be abused?

Dunno.

We're probably all reading too much into this religion of magics which was probably just made up on the fly.

 

I am starting to think we should make a thread about the force.

 

Don't recall the dark side itself being called unnatural - but it's a pathway to various abilities that some might call unnatural at least, if Palpatine is to be believed (a very big if).

 

Bringing balance was introduced in the PT and came up again during TCW. Was basically interpreted that Anakin was a messiah-like being, that would bring fourth a new era of Light, by this time the Jedi were clouded by the darkside, you had Sith shrine buried under the temple that was corrupting them for a 1000 years and such, plus the Sith never actually were exinct - Bane created a new Order of Sith with the Rule of Two that has endured right underneath the Jedi's noses around 1000 years. So as long as these elements were in place, there was never any balance, but the continual shift in the darkside's favor by the mechanizations that were in effect to topple the Jedi Order. The Jedi and Sith wars probably has kept a see-saw battle between the Light and Dark for many thousands of years. We do know at one point the Sith controlled the Galaxy and they lost power mainly by killing themselves. The Mortis arc again brings the balace of the Force back on stage. The father wanted Anakin there as the anchor to keep the light and dark balanced, neither one gaining too much apparently was a good thing. The Son introduced the vision of the future, Anakin turned darkside. This plays out similarly along the lines of what occurs in ROTS, But s separate because The Son wants to eliminate both the Jedi(the then present Jedi Order) and the Sith(Sidious and Tyranus who are rivals). Anakin seems aware he's headed towards the darkside, he even expresses some of this to Kenobi in season 7 on Utapu but Kenobi was not really listening, paying close attention. Anyway, the Father tries to deny this future by dismissing it as one of many possible futures, and so erases it but that is fruitless as it would come to be anyway, in a slightly different manner.

At length, it is likely both the Jedi and the Sith, who are alike in nearly every way, but both are equally narrowly dogmatic. But that does not really get anybody anywhere, that bascally arguing in circles and something more akin to the oroboros, the snake swallowing its own tail, the infinity. You may argue that the Jedi and Sith are both religions dedicated to the Force, but either is correct. There could be no light and no dark, just the Force. All of the difference is ther free will, and actions that define us, not the religions or interpreation of a false sense of this fanatical true Faith where each tries to wipe eachother out. However this one Force, sounds akin to Voldermorte's temptation to lure Potter over to him, it could be naive. You can then argue something along the lines of the greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.

If TFA story is based upon an ancient Sith Lord and a few Imperial Inquisitors, then no the Sith were never destroyed by Anakin -anymore than the were the Sith destroyed when Bane created a new order out've the ashes of the old one. Just different incarnations of the Sith and those who wish to become Sith. Even if there is no actual ordained Sith Lord in TFU, but the protaganist is searching for religous relics and texts in order to recreate a new order of Sith, than that is still Sith. Even if Luke was turned to the darkside, even the Sith were one Jedi(essentally fallen angels). Many of these differences are superficial. But Luke turning the darkside would not follow any bringing balance.