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Rebels Official Star Wars Rebels Music Thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by Abrapork Lincoln, Apr 20, 2014.

  1. Abrapork Lincoln

    Abrapork Lincoln Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2014
    Well, now that we know that Kiner is coming back and we've heard a snippet of some of the show's music, I figured it was about time we made a thread for this, just as TCW has a thread for its music.

    Upon listening to the little segment of music heard in the recent Kiner interview vid, I can safely say—in my opinion—that:

    Frankly, this is awful. I don't understand how Kiner can continue to peddle this crap and the listeners buy into it; it's simply bad music. Yes, the theme at 2:48 (in the YouTube vid interview) may sound a bit more promising that the stuff we got on TCW, but then the introduction of the Williams "Force Theme"... Come on people, it doesn't fit! Trust me, start at 2:48 and just tap your finger with the beat, or count/conduct "1-2-3-4" in your head, 4 beats per bar. You'll see that when the Williams theme enters, not only does it not fit the beat Kiner already laid down as of 2:48, but it actually has no consistent beat of its own! It literally sounds like some guy playing the "Force Theme" with an incorrect rhythm off in his own world, over completely different music. I could come up with something like this on my computer by the end of the day and it would honestly sound more convincing than that.

    Kiner has proven time and time again to be a fraud of a composer, whether it be blatantly ripping-off (sadly, now late) composer Wojciech Kilar's Dracula theme as music for the Separatist fleet in the TCW episode Downfall of a Droid, or using real Indian pop songs as the background music for Hondo's hangout in Dooku Captured... Fans have reached out for comment on these instances multiple times, only to receive no answer or explanation. Kiner claimed at the start of TCW's run to be using a live orchestra for every episode; anybody with a trained ear however can figure out that this is not true. He used one for the Ahsoka arc and maybe one or two others, but the majority of Kiner's music appears to be computer-performed orchestral samples (and not even the best on the market, at that!). I just wish we as Star Wars fans could wise up and not stand for this stuff any longer, but sadly too many of us are too ignorant to admit or even realize that we're being duped by this crap.

    EDIT: Also... Kiner's comment, "So now it starts to develop"... That is not a development; that's literally the same musical material with just a change in the orchestration. Furthermore, Kiner's "Force Theme" actually doesn't even have all the right notes; the 11th note of the theme (right before the triplet) is supposed to be a D, not a G...
     
  2. credar

    credar Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 18, 2011
    I think it works just fine. I don't see the big deal. I mean it's a TV show. Not every show gets a big orchestra, so I think it's great that this show does. I don't think many viewers will be worried about if that note was a D or a G, it sounds like Star Wars to me and I'm going to enjoy it. Yes he does use different music and takes from this and that, but no one seems to be really PRAISING Kiner. I just think the theme sounds great. It has enough of a variation from the original Star Wars theme to be it's own thing, yet it still has Star Wars as the core of the music. The beat sounds just fine to me. It all depends on what the opening credits are going to be. If the opening credits are made to fit that beat and that was the plan, I see nothing wrong with it. We are only really getting half of the opening, the other half being the video part of the opening.

    Also, when he says now it starts to develop, it's that the music is increasing in its strength.
     
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  3. Abrapork Lincoln

    Abrapork Lincoln Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2014
    Define big? Big in orchestra terms is like 90 people or so. He said the last show would get a live orchestra, period (not even a big one), for every episode... And if that were true, I'd have been overjoyed. But it didn't even get that. I don't care how big or small the orchestra is; I just want Kiner to hold up to his word that we will be hearing live music, and not just stuff coming off his computer speakers.

    Right there, in that second sentence, you just praised Kiner...

    Credits? Credits don't have a beat, music has a beat. Regardless of whether or not a video and its music match up or work well together, there is in fact such a thing as simply bad music. Music that doesn't work.

    Music shouldn't only sound okay if it accompanies visuals well; all of Williams' music (and even some of the TCW music, I'll grant) can sound good on its own, without the listener needing to see something on a screen. That is why Williams' music is played in concert halls around the world; it is good music that people want to hear, and people can recognize it as being good even without the visuals. Kiner's music as played in that YouTube video, not so much. Maybe to a musically inept person or someone who doesn't really care about/hasn't studied music, it sounds alright. But he is a "pro", and the pros are supposed to sound professional, not like some kid tinkering with Apple's GarageBand.

    Whether or not credits accompany that music does not matter; all I'm saying—and again, if you don't believe me, try to beat along with the music and you'll see that when the "Force Theme" enters, it is off—is that you should be able to differentiate between music and video. Video should still be able to look good without music there, right? Well music should be able to sound good without video there, too.

    Again, about the beat thing; this is not open to interpretation. This is a provable fact, that the introduction of the "Force Theme" in that clip does not line up with the beat set by the previous little oboe/cello melody.

    That may be what he means, but as a professional composer he should know what the word "develop" really means, in the music dictionary sense, and thus be using it correctly.
     
  4. credar

    credar Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 18, 2011
    1. You are right about the orchestra. I guess I didn't remember exactly what he said. But still, it's nice to know that this show is going to have an orchestra.

    2. I wasn't praising Kiner. I was saying the song sounds great. A BIG reason why it does: John Williams' theme. I liked the little thing he put on at the beginning, but it's not like it's a masterpiece. Just adds a little spice to the main thing I love about it, John Williams' music.

    3. I didn't say credits have a beat. However, we don't know if the music was written for the video or the video will be made for the music. For all we know, Kiner had to do the song the way it is because the storyboards or the rough animation for the intro was made a certain way. He wanted it to match.

    Then again, it could be that he wrote the music and the animation will be made to fit the music. And I see your point. I'm not calling this theme fantastic. It was enjoyable and I'm hoping it meshes well with the intro. Even as someone who loves good music, I still got enjoyment from it. And I did beat along to the intro in the interview video and it timed out well for me. Though I just gave the full intro (This one: https://soundcloud.com/theforcenet/star-wars-rebels-theme) another listen and that fast paced ending did feel a bit disconnected from the rest of the song. I like it better where it ends in the interview video.

    4. As I am not a scholar in music, what exactly would development mean in the musical tense? It sounds like development to me. The theme began soft and now more is being added on, in terms of power and instruments. It was developed and changed in terms of its sound from the original part.

    Same/similar music, but different instruments.
     
  5. H-BOMB

    H-BOMB Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Feb 21, 2009
    The John Williams-insertion doesn't bother me, but when the theme shifts from the fanfare to Kiner's clarinet-fest at :40 to :41. Ugh! It doesn't work! Blah! Ew! It goes from something so grand to really subtle, and I understand that that contrast can work, but it just doesn't do it for me. That and the horns at 1:03-1:04.

    Here's hoping that it's just the echo-y recording that's making it sound bad. Hopefully we'll hear a cleaner version sooner or later. I honestly wouldn't mind if all they used was John Williams' stuff. The Clone Wars' music was horrible in my opinion. I liked it far more when they used some of the movie tracks for the trailer rather than the finished project.

    I'm glad that for Rebels they're at least putting more of a focus on the themes of the movies than trying to compose an entirely original soundtrack.
     
  6. WampaSwamp

    WampaSwamp Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Aug 27, 2011
    The only time Kiner's music sounds good to me is when it's orchestrated; the season 5 finale score was his best yet in the entire series. Unfortunately, other than that a lot of the time other pieces of music in the show sound too 'synthy' and obviouslu computer generated. But as you said even then it could still sound better. There are games with better non-orchestral music samples than what we got a lot of the time.
     
  7. Sir Chem

    Sir Chem Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 26, 2013
    After listening a few times I understand where I have problems with the theme. The loud beginning sting of John William's would be good, if he had allowed it normally, but then put a sustained pause at the the highest note, with a violin taking the lead in a quick staccato scale run to bring the energy and octave down to the middle part. Then, instead of using more William's music, he should have created a leitmotif for this group of Rebels, building on top of the middle part he composed. And cut out that horribly-timed ending. It just feels too rushed and poorly done. (The timing up until that point is great, standard 4/4 time. As soon as those ending stings come in, it falls apart.)

    The hook that he composed? I like it, but I want to hear something to take that idea further, with that sort of rhythm. (I don't know why, but it reminds me of spaghetti westerns in its timing, which are awesome.) I was disappointed when he just used the William's music instead. I'll wait to see it in the show, before I make a solid determination of my opinion of him.

    It is really hard to talk about music in-depth on a forum.
     
  8. Todd the Jedi

    Todd the Jedi Mod and Soliloquist of SWTV star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 16, 2008
    And yet, we have a whole subforum for just that purpose. ;)
     
  9. Convor

    Convor Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Feb 25, 2011
    I've already stated that I'm not the biggest fan of Kiner's stuff. Really the only time his music has really worked for me was in the Season 5 finale.



    I admit I'm not the most adept student of music but...Here. HERE is a variation on a classic Williams theme that's different enough to not feel derivative but at the same time really, truly FEELS like Star Wars. It's memorable, and it immediately brings a particular scene to my mind. That's what a great piece does in a movie - it becomes so integral to the scene that to simply see an image of the scene causes you to think of the theme, and hearing the theme begins a reel of images in your head.

    I'll hold off judgement until I watch the first few episodes of Rebels, but what I've heard so far doesn't get my hopes up.
     
  10. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I'm envisioning a Rebels soundtrack with tracks like "Chopper's Profane Ramblings," "The First Ten Accidental Explosions of Sabine," "The Inquisitor's March" (heavy on the tuba) and "Hera and Kanan" (the least mellow song on the album).
     
  11. Theo333

    Theo333 Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Mar 29, 2011
    Honestly, I assumed the piece from the youtube video was just going to be a one-off piece when introducing Ezra on Lothal, not the actual theme.

    It starts off well enough, a catchy buildup to John Williams, then awkwardly mixes in two other Williams pieces in the musical equivalent of putting a square peg in a round hole, especially the tone shift around the 1:00 mark...then it goes full retard around 1:12 with a another complete tone shift and someone repeatedly blowing as hard as he can into his trumpet until it's mercifully cut short by a weird tempo of the Star Wars theme.

    In fact, the piece at :30 doesn't belong in the theme at all. It's putting the cart before the horse.

    Edit: Aaaaaaaand, I didn't read the above posts before posting the link. Silly me.
     
  12. Dark Lord Tarkas

    Dark Lord Tarkas Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 29, 2011
    Like I said in another thread, I didn't hear any announcement in the video that any part of it was the theme song for the show, so I don't think it is.
     
  13. Theo333

    Theo333 Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Mar 29, 2011

    Well, Kiner explicitly says it's the show theme here at around 28:07.



    So get used to hearing this every week.
     
    Dark Lord Tarkas likes this.
  14. Dark Lord Tarkas

    Dark Lord Tarkas Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 29, 2011
    Theo333 that wasn't the video I saw with the claim in whatever thread I saw it in, so thanks for the clarification.
     
  15. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Host, PT Interview Thread star 10 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2014
    The music of this show has so far been great and since we have a thread about clone wars music why not rebels music.

    My favorite piece so far has to be the inquisitors theme song.
     
  16. TheSilentInfluence

    TheSilentInfluence Silent and Friendly Mod of SWTV and SWC. star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jul 15, 2014
    The Inquisitors theme is my favorite too.

    I wish they would release more of the music though.
     
  17. Cevan

    Cevan Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 16, 2013
    Since there's a TCW soundtrack that will be released soon, here's hoping we'll one day get a Rebels soundtrack as well. Unfortunately it probably won't be for a few years, however it'd be nice if they'd at least release a soundtrack for Spark of Rebellion in the meantime since it's in essence a TV mini movie.
     
    TheSilentInfluence likes this.
  18. SpecialOpsUnit

    SpecialOpsUnit Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 1, 2007
    A little too much John Williams for me, the influence is fine but no need to copy everything. The Inquisitor's theme is very cool though.
     
  19. TheSilentInfluence

    TheSilentInfluence Silent and Friendly Mod of SWTV and SWC. star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jul 15, 2014
    Hopefully they branch away soon and make more of their own style. Not that the John Williams stuff isn't nice and iconic. But still, it would be nice to see what they can do for Rebels.
     
  20. Kablob

    Kablob Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 24, 2014
    There was a lot of great original music in ROTOM.
     
  21. Jedi_Kenobi32

    Jedi_Kenobi32 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 24, 2005
    Kablob agree 100%.

    The original music in Rebels is well done. In fact I like Rebels' music more than TCW's music. Let's just hope that Kiner keeps any of John Williams music to a minimum and only uses such music when it is absolutely necessary.
     
  22. KeithyT

    KeithyT Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2014
    Cross posting here but only just noticed this thread

    Just a quick little question about the soundtrack. What's that jaunty musical cue that is sometimes used for Ezra? It's the one from the very end of the short "Property Of Ezra Bridger" after he stuns the TIE pilot and strides off with his pilot helmet. Sort of an upbeat march feel to it that repeats (but rises) the same line - I think it's horns rather than strings?

    They've used it a few times in the full episodes and although it's now ingrained in my psyche I don't remember it from the other Star Wars movies. Is it an original piece do you think?
     
  23. Taalcon

    Taalcon Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 12, 1998
    It's the Rebel Fleet theme from Return of the Jedi.

    Start listening at 1:01 mark:


    Which I think is AWESOME, because now that motif for the Rebels' Big Final Battle has a precedent and origin with the Spark of Rebellion.
     
    KeithyT likes this.
  24. TheOneX_Eleazar

    TheOneX_Eleazar Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 24, 2013
    Other than the overuse of OT themes I really haven't noticed the music at all.
     
  25. KeithyT

    KeithyT Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2014
    Thanks Taalcon agreed that is awesome, I guess it was more subliminally familiar than I first thought!
     
    Taalcon likes this.