Official TFN policy for dealing with inappropriate action

You aren't a membership group, you are a person. And you aren't inviting the entire public into your house - so it couldn't be established that your house is public until you charge, making it private.

Ah, good. They do charge. Case closed. Next?

(They just don't charge US. They sell real estate to advertisers for money which they pay for the business.)

 

Kimball Kinnison

Yet, just because you own the newspaper privately, you are still subject to the laws of the land. Just because it is private doesn't mean that a libel lawsuit can't be filed against you. It doesn't mean that you can place pornographic ads within it. There are standards that the newspaper is subject to - just like TFN is as well.

 

No ES, you are refusing to see the facts as they are presented to you. You seem to be the only one in this discussion who refuses to understand what the TOS clearly states.

This is a privelty owned site, if you go to the 'official site' (where things are much more strictly monitered) or any other such place you'll come across the same thing.

No one is making anyone who disagrees with the policies stay and I for one am greatful we have TF.N in the first place with mods who care about thier 'job' and their fellow posters.

 

You have a very big misunderstanding of the law in this case.

Yes, we are still subject to the laws. However, the laws about privacy in this case are not being violated. You waive those rights when you agree to the TOS when you first sign up, and again with every post you make. By taking those actions, you have made a legally binding commitment to obey those terms.

With the phrase "User agrees that this Agreement in its entirety applies to both public and private messages", you agree as the user that your private messages sent through the boards are open to moderator scrutiny, just like any other post. That is every bit as legally binding as a software license or other contract. It is entered into of your own free will. If you do not accept those terms, you cannot post here.

You have absolutely no claim upon the resources (server space, bandwidth, etc) of this site, and may be denied access to any and all functions or resources at the will of the administration.

It is that simple.

Kimball Kinnison

 

DarthBreezy

Why don't you check out the TOS for the official site. You might find it interesting - and greatly more extensive than the TOS for TFN - and much more complete, legally.

Kimball Kinnison

Yes, but the TFN TOS is much more of a blanket agreement and does not spelled out point by point the rights and responsibilities of all the parties involved. Since that isn't the case, how can the user know what rights he or she is giving up?

 

Why is it that everyone online is a lawyer?

 

Why is it that everyone online is a lawyer?

"You'll never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy..."



JMA

 

JMA:

 

JMA - lol

ES - ...and much more complete, legally.

Seriously, bro; are you a lawyer or law-student? Have you ever studied law? If not, then how can you make the statement that the JC TOS is not legally 'complete'?

 

Well, considering that Lucasfilm's TOS needs to cover more (ie copyright infringement*, licensing rights the monster that is lucasfilm the entity) I would assume they are quite a bit more comprehensive (as I'm sure that the fine print.. the extended version of TF.N's TOS is.. the intial link just coveres the basics.)


*Fan fiction is a violation of copyright you know... it is by the good graces of LF that we are allowed to continue and that TF.N can host it...

Edit

This also applies to Fan art...

Not a lawyer but had to study copyright law in college as part of my program...

 

JediStryker


Take a look at the official site's TOS - it's quite clear, to an extreme level.

And I didn't say that the TFN TOS wasn't complete, but once you see the official site's TOS, it is quite obvious that there is a difference.

To condense the TOS to several paragraphs, given the status of TFN, just isn't appropriate for the user to know the full ramifications of joining TFN.

 

Take a look at the official site's TOS - it's quite clear, to an extreme level.

And I didn't say that the TFN TOS wasn't complete, but once you see the official site's TOS, it is quite obvious that there is a difference.

Just because it's different, and TOS's TOS (er?) is more complex, doesn't mean that the JC's TOS is any less binding or meaningful. I'm not a lawyer, and can't judge with any education which one is better, but it seems to me from my limited experience that the JC's is good enough, which is all it needs to be.

<shrug>

 

I will also point out that the Official Site's TOS are designed to cover both the free areas and the subscription areas. As such (with the money changing hands) there are additional factors that they need to add.

If you strip out the parts that only apply to their message boards, it is about as long and detailed as TFN's TOS.

To compare, the GPL is a very simple license for software. It takes about 1 page to print. When you compare it with some of Microsoft's EULAs (which run sometimes into 100+ pages), it is very simple. However, it is just as legally binding of an agreement.

Also, I should note that if you do not accept the TOS, you have no right to post here at all. Private ownership laws apply to the server, and you cannot put anything on it (including posts or messages). The TOS is the only thing that gives you permission to post here. If it were not here, the act of placing content onto a privately owned (even if publicly accessible) server could constitute a felony, the computer equivalent of breaking and entering.

Kimball Kinnison

 

FYI: vagueness of a contract is sufficient reason for that contract to be ruled null and void, in a court of law.


carry on.

 

User agrees not to post material that is knowingly false and/or defamatory, misleading, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, that otherwise violates any law, or that encourages conduct constituting a criminal offense. Also, as a general guideline, all users here should respect one another's opinions and beliefs. User also agrees not to post spoilers regarding the upcoming Star Wars prequel in any forum outside of those specifically labelled as allowing spoilers (this includes posting spoilers of any type in your profile and signature). This applies to private messages as well.

User agrees not to post any material that is protected by copyright, trademark or other proprietary right without the express permission of the owner(s) of said copyright, trademark or other proprietary right. User agrees not to use nicknames that might be deemed abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise inappropriate. User agrees not to use nicknames that might mislead other Users. This includes, but is not limited to, using nicknames that impersonate developers or other users.

Seems pretty straightforward to me. Nothing vague in that.

EDIT: Let's say there's a dispute over the word "hateful". If you posted something you don't think is "hateful" and another user does, then it's left up to a moderator to decide. That's what they do in exchange for all these headaches and being insulted by regular users.

 

vagueness of a contract is sufficient reason for that contract to be ruled null and void, in a court of law.

However, if the contract (the TOS) is ruled null and void, then basic property law takes over. Under property law, you have no right to place any data on the TFN servers, as they are private property.

The only way you gain the authorization to post on this board is by agreeing to the TOS. If it is ruled unenforceable, then your authority to post is revoked because it was never granted to you in the first place.

In short, Josh Griffin (the owner) and his authorized representatives (the Administration) hold all the cards.

Kimball Kinnison

 

To condense the TOS to several paragraphs, given the status of TFN, just isn't appropriate for the user to know the full ramifications of joining TFN.

Ramifications? I thought the only ramificications of this place was that you'd get addicted to talking to other words on a computer screen, and that you'd waste endless lonely nights doing so...

Am I missing something here???

 

Yeah, I wasn't aware of any ramifications, either--other than this place can be like crack.

It's not like anyone is holding a gun to your head to make you stay here. If Josh Griffin says that you have to bark at the moon in order to post here, then you have to bark at the moon in order to post here. If you don't want to do that, then go somewhere else.

 

jedi-ES,

One final point:

If you do not agree with the TOS as they have been clearly explained to you (repeatedly), I or any other moderator would be more than happy to help you out by banning your account so that you are no longer forced to agree to them every time you post. Of course, you would not be able to post either, but that is what comes with declining the TOS.

Alternatively, you can try to contact Josh Griffin, owner of TFN, to work out an alternative arrangement for the use of his property. In that, I wish you luck.

Kimball Kinnison

 

However, if the contract (the TOS) is ruled null and void, then basic property law takes over. Under property law, you have no right to place any data on the TFN servers, as they are private property.

The only way you gain the authorization to post on this board is by agreeing to the TOS. If it is ruled unenforceable, then your authority to post is revoked because it was never granted to you in the first place.

right, but if the contract is voided then your actions prior to the ruling are not bound to the TOS, since it is no longer a valid contract.

anyhoo, i know what you are saying. i'm not trying to argue the issue, as it has already been beaten into the ground and dressed in funny clothes.

EDIT: typo

 

Regarding vagueness of a contract:

A contract can be ruled 'void becuase vague,' but the "vagueness" applies to the specific terms of the contract, not the fact that the contract does not cover every possible outcome.

Here is the standard:

void for vagueness
referring to a notation which is so vague that a reasonable person of at least average intelligence could not determine what elements are constituted.

So if someone made a contract that said
" you are buying this."
The contract would most likely be dismissed because the specifics are vague.

However, A bar, or theme park, or website that says "You may use this, but you may be thrown out at any time," would not be considered legally vague because the terms of use are understood, even if every reason why someone would get thrown out is not listed.

 

Thank you, council.

Your witness.

 

"...given the status of TFN, just isn't appropriate for the user to know the full ramifications of joining TFN. "

Star.
Wars.
Message.
Board.

The ramifications are to discuss Star Wars in an anal and nitpickingly fashion without revealing your grotesque nerdyness to your close friends and/or relations.

UKS

 

I will have nothing to do with anal fashion.

I'm sorry.

 

...without revealing your grotesque nerdyness to your close friends and/or relations.

That is unavoidable. That is your destiny.

Anyway, I think this has topic has been dissected into tiny little pieces. Can anyone possibly have anything meaningful left to contribute?