Clone Wars Official "The Clone Wars" Series Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by RevantheJediMaster, Jul 15, 2005.

  1. Random Comments Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 25, 2012
    star 5
    They'll just give a little tongue in cheek response if it passes. It wouldn't be a world-destroying problem...

    Like how they responded to the Start Building a Death Star petition.
  2. darklordoftech Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    Her scheming is very interesting.
  3. Jedi Master Chuck Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2013
    star 1
    I actually hope they don't conclude The Clone Wars through a comic. I have nothing against comics. I've read a few American comics and some really excellent manga series like One Piece, 20th Century Boys, Fullmetal Alchemist, and Hunter x Hunter, but the thing is, as we've seen too many times before, the comics / novels just don't align with what appears on screen. It's all good until someone decides that the comics are not canon. I know some people have a big issue with this, though I personally don't mind the contradictions since I view the two as separate (think FMA original vs. FMA Brotherhood). Hell, I want the One Piece anime to completely deviate from the manga so we can get a much higher quality condensed no-filler version (ala FMA Brohood) someday when the series eventually finishes.


    Someday, if I'm watching Star Wars, I want to be able to start at Episode I and watch straight through to IX, XII, XV, whatever including any TV series and have a completely seamless story, not have to jump over to reading a comic before continuing. It's just very far from the ideal to wrap up a story though a comic.


    I'd honestly rather leave it completely open with the hope of someday revisiting the story after the sequel trilogy through animated film or a future animated series than force an ending through a comic and never see these characters on screen again.


    Man you gotta advertise that petition somewhere where a looooot of people will see it or it's never going to reach 100k lol
    Last edited by Jedi Master Chuck, Mar 29, 2013
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  4. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    Comics can be rendered non-canon, but so to can the TV series. The highest level is whatever Lucas - or presumably whomever now replaces him (Kathleen) - allows into the films. And even then the films themselves can be altered (e.g. Han shot first, Jabba meets Han in the docking bay, Jedi Rocks vs. Lapti Nek, etc.) The TV series are in only a marginally safer position than the comics.
    Last edited by TaradosGon, Mar 29, 2013
  5. Jedi Master Chuck Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2013
    star 1
    Dave Filoni confirmed in an interview with IGN that Obi-Wan, Plo Koon, and Yoda believed Ahsoka was innocent and were against the decision to expel her from the order.


    My bet would be on Mace Windu pushing strongest against her. In Revenge of the Sith and really distrusts Anakin, so I could see that carrying over to his apprentice.We already see that he has much stronger reservations about Anakin in TCW than the rest of the council. I always found it ironic, that Mace was right in mistrusting Anakin in that Anakin is the one who ultimately brings destruction to the order, but at the same time his lack of trust is one of the things that plays right into Palpatine's plans and helps push Anakin to that point where he's willing to give himself over to the Dark Side.


    I understand that the TV series could technically also be rendered non-canon, but the fact that George Lucas worked on it directly, that it appears on screen with Lucas's name, just helps me feel like it's more officially part of the Star Wars universe. Unlike comics and novels which endeavor to tell parts of the story the TV series / movies haven't yet touched, the TV series is something Lucasfilm puts time and effort into developing on their own. I just don't see a reason for them to go back over their own work as opposed to contradicting someone else's writings that George quite possibly hasn't even read.
    Last edited by Jedi Master Chuck, Mar 29, 2013
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  6. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    Filoni, when Lucas announced his retirement, had said that they had "plenty" of stories left to tell and that "every last one" came from Lucas. If those stories same stories are adapted to comic book form, it wouldn't affect their "officiality" or whatever you want to call it, since all ideas would still be originating from the stories Filoni and Lucas had worked on. It would be different if they abandoned those stories and tapped completely new writers to tackle the end of TCW with no input from Lucas or Filoni - though the latter would make a more streamlined continuity that ties into the films, existing C-canon, and existing T-canon.
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  7. Jedi Master Chuck Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2013
    star 1
    In a sense I suppose that's true, but I just still feel that it would be ideal to see these stories resolved on screen in some capacity.

    I enjoy Star Wars novels, but I actually think it's a mistake for the film / tv series to try and conform to their stories and keep them as part of the same continuity. The writers of the EU are very ambitious and have tried to tell stories in all parts of the Star Wars universe. The thing with the movies and TV series is they can't just be about random characters or events, unlike the comics and novels. To title these movies Episodes VII - IX for example, is to declare them part of the same story as I - VI. They need to continue telling the same story. In general, when people go see Star Wars movies, they're going to expect that the movies work together to tell an even bigger story and the TV series will provide necessary information / fill in the blanks. Where comics and novels can deviate further from the main story, any on screen medium needs to be a bit more cohesive. The problem is, there are just too many novels, comics, etc. by too many different authors for all the people at Lucasfilm working on a new series to be expected to read everything. There are too many limitations for the movies to work around if they're expected to remain in the same continuity as the novels.


    Just take a look at the sequel trilogy. The idea here with VII - IX is to bring back the original actors. It would be impossible to create a satisfying story that could both entertain the general movie going population and remain continuous with the novel series post-RotJ. I'm not even talking about the Thawn Trilogy, etc. How can audiences jump right into the story after the New Jedi Order and Fate of the Jedi series? 99.99% of the people going to see the movie haven't read any of those 28 novels and would be extremely confused. SPOILERS Suddenly, Chewie's dead, Luke's married, Han & Leia have 2 kids, one already died, one already went sith and back, there was a massive war with the Imperial Remnant, the Yuuzhan Vong, and Abeloth, and now...what? I just can't see a story that is both sequel to those events but doesn't rely on them heavily.


    I'm not saying this to anyone in particular. I don't think anyone here was strongly suggesting that the movies / tv series remain true to the comics and novels, but I'm just pointing out the reason I feel the novels / comics really can't be considered part of the main series.
  8. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    I am guessing that the post-ROTJ continuity will be rebooted following the release of Episode 7.

    There is a Star Trek author that was trying to explain the notion of canon to some Trek fans on a message board (and IMO he comes across as quite rude).

    I feel like Trek and SW practices when it comes to their EU are very much the same and that any differences between the two are usually a matter of semantics.

    From Star Trek EU author, Christopher Bennett




    I won't post everything he says, it can be read here for anyone interested in an EU author's take on canon, even if it is a different franchise.

    But ultimately he says that canon is simply what the producers of the Star Trek films and TV series choose to be bound by in regards to story telling. If they chose to be bound by the books, then they would be canon, but since it is a logistical nightmare to try and keep the novels, shows and movies consistent, they disregard the novels as non-canon. The novels do attempt to maintain continuity with each other as well as to the series, but the series is not bound by them.

    This is EXACTLY how it is handled in Star Wars as well, though there is a difference in terminology. Since Star Trek makes reference to canon vs. non-canon, while Star Wars makes reference to G-, T-, C-, S-, and N- canon. Each level is bound by the one above it and not bound by the levels below it. The only one that is truly binding is G-canon. S and C canon are hardly canon at all since NOTHING is bound to them except for other C-canon works (and this is true for Star Trek EU too, it does have continuity, it just isn't canon).

    And it's the same with T-canon. T-canon is bound by G-canon, but can freely ignore C-canon.

    IMO TCW should either be bumped up to be equal to G-canon, or bumped "down" to be equal to C-canon. I feel the latter is more. The more levels of canon = more discontinuity since each level can freely ignore the level below it.

    G canon and T canon can freely ignore C canon, but G canon can also freely ignore T canon, and G canon can overwrite itself.

    For all intents an purposes Star Wars canon employed the same bi-layer system that Star Trek uses up until TCW, and in the wake of TCW there was great discontinuity. Either bump it up and make the films bound by it, or knock it down and make it bound by c-canon. I think keeping a separate T-canon level makes things a bigger mess.
    Last edited by TaradosGon, Mar 29, 2013
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  9. 07jonesj Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2010
    star 4
    I was once truly adamant that SW maintain a single continuity, but I'm slowly coming around to the fact that the guys doing the visual stuff just tend to be too lazy to use the Wook, or too big-headed to have to conform to others' prior ideas.

    The novels and comics have managed to remain mostly consistent with each other over the past two decades, and there's far more material there than there is within TCW and the films. I'm becoming of the opinion that if the film writers don't want to make an effort, **** 'em. Have the books and comics be a separate, far more entertaining continuity that is able to remain cohesive.
    Last edited by 07jonesj, Mar 29, 2013
  10. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    Something that amused me was reading an interview with Rick Berman (Star Trek producer AKA "**** you Rick Berman" from Red Letter Media). In it he states that he wasn't actually that familiar with The Original Series while serving as showrunner for Enterprise (a prequel to TOS). He however states that he consulted with Michael Okuda to ensure as much continuity as possible. Michael Okuda was essentially Star Trek's equivalent of Leland Chee that served as a consultant for the shows and also for some of the games and reference books.

    They were using a consultant anyway to ensure that all the stories they were telling were coherent with each other, what's the difference between that and using the very same consultant to ensure that stories are consistent with the EU? Even in regards to TCW there has been mention that Filoni would contact Leland Chee for input... So why not just take Leland Chee, since he pretty much just does this for a living anyway, and have him serve as a consultant to TCW and provide feedback and recommend changes?

    I mean... you're contacting the dude anyway...

    There isn't a single story in TCW that I think he would have shot down wholesale, he probably would just change dialogue here and there or choose different characters to fill certain roles (e.g. don't make Barriss the traitor) in order to ensure continuity.
    Last edited by TaradosGon, Mar 29, 2013
  11. 07jonesj Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2010
    star 4
    Nice PC edit by the way Tarados. ;)

    My best guess would be that the writers don't want to be told they have to change anything. They would never be able to get away with directly contradicting the films but a couple of novels? They can totally get away with that.

    It's either arrogance or a writer's love for their work depending on which side of the coin you're looking at. Personally, as someone who writes fiction in their spare time (never published, might do one day in the future), I like having full reign over my characters, their motivations, their actions.

    However, I wouldn't write in an existing universe for that reason. If you agree to do that, you agree to conform to the already existing material.
    Last edited by 07jonesj, Mar 29, 2013
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  12. Jedi Master Chuck Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2013
    star 1
    I agree with you and I'm of the opinion that The Clone Wars should be just bumped up to G-Canon. I
  13. Seerow SWTV★Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2011
    star 6
    The finale certainly goes a long way toward explaining why there is all the distrust between Anakin and the Council. It builds nicely on the beginnings of this subplot from season 3 and the Rako Hardeen arc. Ahsoka basically thrown to the wolves and then the council offered to knight her as a apology. From his point of view it really would seem like they ran her off. Filoni's word of god about who believed her is interesting. However Anakin doesn't seem to like Yoda either in ROTS and he seems to have lead this along with Mace regardless of what he really thought. It was Plo who first started stepping on Anakin's toes in the Citadel arc.
  14. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I thought the Hardeen arc did a much better job of explaining why Anakin distrusted the Council than the final arc did, although I have no doubt that Anakin was mad as hell at the Council at the end.
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  15. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    I thought the Hardeen arc was better because it seemed like the Jedi Council was distrusting Anakin for no apparent reason whereas in the fugitive arc it had nothing to do with Anakin and there was fradulent evidence being used against Ahsoka.
  16. DarthTalgus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4
  17. Jordan1Kenobi Host of EUC Battle of... Games

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
  18. Barriss_Coffee Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2003
    star 6
    Hey, they're stealing Filoni's secret!
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  19. GGrievous Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2005
    star 5
    His secret is his fanfiction. ;)
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  20. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Needs Ahsoka.

    And a boob hole.

    And mad skillz.
    Last edited by anakinfansince1983, Mar 30, 2013
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  21. GGrievous Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2005
    star 5
    This story...

    Needs more Ahsoka and more OT dialogue.
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  22. darthzac14 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2012
    star 3
    I don't know if anybody has said anything about it but TCW is on ABC at 12:30 pm where I live.
  23. 07jonesj Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2010
    star 4
    It... It is?!?
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  24. rumblewagon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2004
    star 4
    Saturdays? What season(s) are they showing?
  25. Watto Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 13, 1998
    star 4