Clone Wars Official "The Clone Wars" Series Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by RevantheJediMaster, Jul 15, 2005.

  1. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Bite your tongue.
  2. JediGirl_Angelina Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2003
    star 3
    Wut?
    Dark Lord Tarkas likes this.
  3. purplerain Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 2013
    star 4
    FOTJ pretty much says, "Because Anakin didn't take Father's place and all the Ones died, nothing that happened in ROTS or the OT matters."
  4. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    [IMG]

    Sounds like the authors/publishers/creators of that series are trying to ensure that the only ****ing Star Wars that matters is that ****ing series.

    And ****ing Craptis.
  5. JediGirl_Angelina Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2003
    star 3
    I'm not really up-to-date with recent EU publications, are we talking about this FOTJ or something else?
  6. purplerain Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 2013
    star 4
    yup
  7. JediGirl_Angelina Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2003
    star 3
    How could that be more important than the TCW? They're not even on the same level of canon. This gives me the shivers...

    [IMG]
    cwustudent likes this.
  8. purplerain Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 2013
    star 4
    I meant more important within the EU.
  9. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Even worse...

    How the **** is it more important than the movies???

    That's more absurd than a bunch of droids wandering through the desert with a hyperactive suicidal frog.

    EDIT: @purplerain , OK, but still, just no.
    Last edited by anakinfansince1983, Oct 5, 2013
  10. purplerain Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 2013
    star 4
    On another note, I've always been a fan of the CIS Council members and the organizations that they're each in charge of. I'm disappointed that TCW had less of them and more "Separatist of the week."
  11. JediGirl_Angelina Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2003
    star 3
    There is no such thing that a novel (or series of novels) comes and says things in the movies didn't matter. That is just plain stupid. How can people buy that?
  12. purplerain Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 2013
    star 4
    I meant how much things matter in-universe.
  13. 07jonesj Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2010
    star 4
    To be fair, the Father does say that whatever happens in Mortis could have devastating effects felt through the Force on the realm outside the magic Mortis Cube in the sky.

    FOTJ says Anakin made a mistake and Luke deals with it generations later down the line. I really don't think it's as big a deal as it's being made out to be. The EU has lots of Sith whereas the movies said balance would would be restored. The events of Mortis provide an easy out as a massive event of "imbalance" happened.

    No novel is ever going to be more important than the movies.
    Last edited by 07jonesj, Oct 5, 2013
  14. JediGirl_Angelina Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2003
    star 3
    I never understood this. There is no imbalance at Mortis when Anakin, Obi-Wan and Ahsoka leave. The Daughter and the Son are dead, and the Father is passing too who kept them on the leash until that time. There is no balance shifting to any of the sides, good or bad.

    As I understood, if Anakin stayed at Mortis as the Father requested, he could not fulfill the prophecy of bringing balance to the Force because he would be absent from the "reality" that is Palpatine, Clone Wars and the demise of the Jedi. His children would never be born and a complete new chain of events would have occured. Maybe...

    Holy crap, JJ beter not reads this.
    Seerow and 07jonesj like this.
  15. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Time to dig up the "things that would make you walk out of Episode VII" thread.
  16. purplerain Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 2013
    star 4
    Really? I thought Mortis was supposed to be like the Dagobah cave.
    07jonesj likes this.
  17. 07jonesj Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2010
    star 4
    Yeah, that definitely seemed the intention to me. FOTJ does unfortunately treat it entirely literally, which I think is a mistake. The EU has always erred more on the side of hard science fiction than Lucas did though, who really wrote science fantasy in a lot of his content.

    However, it's not a saga-ruining, canon-destroying event.
  18. Darth Valkyrus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 12, 2013
    star 4
    The EU tends to lurch from hard SF to fantasy depending on the writer. Sometimes either is better, depending on what subject it's tackling.

    For example, when Zahn wrote the Thrawn trilogy, it was an unusual (for the time) injection of quite hard sci-fi into SW, but it worked well because of the subject matter - grand fleet tactics, space battles, the deeds of a great admiral etc. Such stuff lends itself to sciencey "description porn" in a way that stuff to do with Jedi and the Force doesn't. It's why Qui-Gon going on about midi-chlorians in TPM was horrid. But when talking of fleet actions and ship to ship combat and space combat maneuvering, hard science (or as hard as can be in a science fiction setting) truly shines.
    Last edited by Darth Valkyrus, Oct 5, 2013
    07jonesj likes this.
  19. Mia Mesharad Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    That would be the magnificent writings of Troy Denning you have to blame there. No, seriously, it's all Denning. He admits it, proudly. [face_frustrated]

    Because the level of canon is...really not that important. Or how importance should be judged, I should say. It's events, not canon level, that matters. It's all one universe after all.

    To be fair, FotJ posits that Anakin made a mistake. There's nothing definitive that says Anakin succeeding the Father would have somehow made the universe a balanced, better-off place than it was otherwise. And what actually transpired would suggest that without Anakin's presence in ongoing events, things would have turned out far worse. FotJ was, in my opinion, really not great...but this is something that's only presented as a theory rather than an indisputable fact.

    There was imbalance though, the imbalance that Palpatine and Plagueis and the other Sith had fostered over the past millennium. It's likely that imbalance that was causing such chaos among the Ones, and the reason why the Father was looking for a solution in Anakin. Despite his god-like nature, though, he's not infallible and chose to come at the problem from the wrong angle. Rather than strike at the problem's source, Palpatine, he wanted to put a bandaid on the whole thing by using Anakin's power to mitigate the damage being done. Though the Ones ultimately do pass from the universe at the end of the arc, the galaxy's slide toward the dark side still remains, but isn't hastened by the Son's further ascension.

    This is all very true, though.

    Personally, I'm happy with a more literal take on the whole things. In my opinion, looking at everything that transpired there as some form of allegory just...doesn't really work. There's a little of this and a little of that, but messages start mixing and one that seemed like it represented this at first gets changed to representing that without a logical train of thought behind it. I'm quite a fan of symbolic storytelling, but an Alan Moore or Grant Morrison tale this was not.

    But when it's looked at as literal, I personally find a much more believable and enjoyable story. For starters, I came into the episode with the background knowledge of the Celestials already introduced to and present in the established Star Wars mythos. These beings, as advanced, ascended, Force-aware beings, aligned very well with that presentation and their appearance clicked for me very quickly. Following that point, their portrayal makes much more sense in my eyes, if they're viewed as individual, emotional beings that are at the furthest point of human comprehension and thus they're actions don't always make sense in a way we understand. "The will of the gods is unknowable." Yet at the same time, they're still subject to flaws in judgement and awareness, similar to Doctor Manhattan of Watchmen. They can have good intentions. But they can be wrong, they can be mistaken. These aspects, I feel, would be lacking if they were all simply projections of someone's Force vision.

    Though you won't hear me say this often, that is one thing I did like from FotJ. I enjoyed the acknowledgement and solidification of the Ones as Celestials, as well the expanding of the mythos with the general concepts of Mortis, Abeloth, the Font, and the Pool. I do not, however, support the idea that somehow these all supersede the importance of everything that's come before, and overrule the mortal struggle that's gone on throughout the history of the Star Wars universe. That's just Troy Denning supplanting his own questionable ideas about what the Force is and how it should govern and should be governed in turn.
    Last edited by Mia Mesharad, Oct 5, 2013
  20. darth fluffy Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 27, 2012
    star 2
    I really loved Mortis- but that might be because I'm a huge MLP: FiM fan and Mortis reminded me of it.:D
    pronker likes this.
  21. Dark Lord Tarkas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2011
    star 4
    It's not at all clear from the Mortis episodes that they're not important to the overall story, that's left very ambiguous.
  22. JediGirl_Angelina Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2003
    star 3
    When looking at the mythical side of the Force, I think it's pretty clear that the Mortis episodes are VERY important.
    cwustudent likes this.
  23. Sannom Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2011
    star 1
    I didn't need that, but then again my laptop is top of the grade, so I may not be a good example to follow. Also, be wary of the number (mine needs two) and type of USB ports you need.

    It's all over his body. Those tatoos mark him as a Nightbrother, and they're put there soon after birth.

    PS : yes, I got the joke, but I just thought it was funny that you could actually answer it;).

    Still weirded out by how freaking tall Talzin is. Is there any character besides the Wookies that are as tall as her?

    To make it simple (I hope) :

    - availability : thankfully, this is no longer an issue, you can simply re-download the files from iTunes. However, it isn't guaranteed that you will be able to play them. See next point.

    - playability and digital rights management (DRM for short) : you can allow up to five devices (those, I think, include Apple mobile devices, PCs or Macs with iTunes and Apple TVs) to read the files associated with a given iStore account. Also, you have to use iTunes or the Apple devices to play those files, they won't work on something like VLC or Windows Media Player.

    Was anybody else moved by Pre Vizsla's speech in Eminence about Death Watch and Satine? I hated the guy and his ideas, I still do, but that speech, combined to his body language (looking into his helmet's visor, slamming it on the table at the end), made me feel for the guy! He never spoke of his heritage and his anger at Satine with such passion before! It was awesome. And then Maul follows it up with one of the most impressive boast in the entire series, and that whole sequence becomes a pure moment of hammy awesomeness!

    I don't think so. He was meant to represent the Dark Side, and since he was voiced by the voice of Sidious and Starkiller, it seemed obvious to have Weaver play on those for the Son's voice.
  24. purplerain Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 2013
    star 4
    I wonder who killed Mina Bonteri.
  25. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Magnaguards. Probably. Unless Dooku did it himself.

    As far as Talzin, I didn't see her as freakishly tall; might be worth watching the Nightsisters arc again. Or should I say, I now have an excuse to watch those awesome episodes again.