Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by RevantheJediMaster, Jul 15, 2005.
That's evil. And not even entertaining-to-watch evil.
Don't forget this one. Evil in a very troll-ish sort of way:
FORCE LIGHTNING SPAM FTW!
Dooku has got to be the master of spamming Force lightning.
When it came to Grievous, I do think the four lightsaber thing was gimmicky and even when they tried to animate it in ROTS it just looks clumsy and stupid. This initial wrist spinning thing he does looks cool, but the rest of it just looks awkward.
I would have preferred they ditch the splitting arm/four lightsaber thing and instead make him only fight with two, but in an unorthodox way as he does in the microseries, like passing a saber to his foot, etc.
But even then I could deal with Grievous not being a lightsaber master. A villain does not need to be a warrior to be menacing. Tarkin never picked up a weapon in the entirety of ANH. So I could overlook that Grievous was a proud warrior that would stubbornly pick fights with the Jedi, even if he could never win. But what killed the character for me was that he was never even shown to be a tactical genius or cunning military leader in the movement of troops/ships. Instead he destroys his battle droids and is the first one to the escape pod, running away like a rat when things turn bad. Instead he should have been portrayed as the genius that could even turn dire circumstances around. Not the guy that "rage quits" every time there's a hiccup in the plan.
I find it pretty sad actually. It really tough to watch when Savage is getting zapped to the point he's just trying to curl up in a fetal position to protect himself from Dooku's lightening.
Savage totally redeemed himself with this awesome display, successfully choking both of his tormentors, including the Sith Lord Tyranus himself:
He might not have had the last laugh, but this, coupled with his Force Repulse to destroy the droids near the end of Witches of the Mist, show Savage at his most powerful in terms of his ability to use the Force... He would never quite match that power in subsequent episodes of TCW, in terms of powerful Force feats.
The seemed like they were setting him up to be The Hulk with the Force. He gets angry and his power just shoots through the roof, when he's calm, he's relatively clumsy compared to the likes of Dooku.
Part of me thinks there would have been greater potential had Savage shown that kind of power in his fight with Sidious, causing Sidious to say his line about having other uses to SAVAGE.
I always kinda liked the way Savage was shown using the force. I mostly agree
@TaradosGon. Savage was very raw and animalistic with his use of the force. He used it instinctively and as naturally as a brute force weapon as cornered animal defending itself. That was kind of cool. But I fully approved on Sidious's curb stomping to two brothers.
I've always liked Grievous on the Invisible Hand in ROTS.
He's described as "fiendish" in the crawl and it's executed almost flawlessly early on. He knows he can't take Skywalker and Kenobi at the same time, so he bashes the viewport open, exposing the bridge to space, which is potentially deadly to organics but no danger to Grievous. How is that not a smart move?
The Hand is falling apart, about to nosedive into the atmosphere and Grievous just bails and takes all the escape pods with him, leaving the Jedi on a doomed ship.That's fiendish and it's done without making Grievous look like a moron, in fact I think it's plenty smart. It's a classic, really. Compare it to bad guys jumping out of a crashing airplane and taking all the parachutes with them, like early in Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom.
It's pretty simple and limited in scope, but I think Grievous comes off looking good there.
The only flaws I can think of in Grievous' movie introduction is standard movie stuff, like "why don't you just kill them right now?", which are so common that I can't really count them as flaws.
Hand Grievous has some of his best dialogue, too.
"What's the situation", "activate ray shields", "Crush them! Make them suffer!" and "You lose, General Kenobi!" are all delightfully hammy. Movie Grievous definitely sounds the best.
TCW Grievous doesn't sound as good and I'm having a hard time thinking of examples of fiendish portrayal that didn't also make him look stupid as hell. I'm sure there are a few examples, I just can't be bothered to scan my memory.
I think part of the problem with Grievous' portrayal in TCW was somewhat similar to other problems with character portrayal in the series. When you have a series that is filled with characters whose fates are already decided by storylines down the road, it limits how those characters can be explored. In ROTS Grievous is still the commander of the droid army, nothing in TCW was going to be able to change that. When GL decided to make TCW revolve around Obi-Wan/Anakin he was further hamstringing the writers when it came to showing Grievous being a successful military figure because he couldn't actually kill several of the main characters. ROTS even shows the fates of several of the more prominent Jedi. I also think there would have been much consternation on these sites had a non-force sensitive been responsible for the spilling of too much Jedi blood.
I dunno, I'm of the mind that if you have no way to use a villain without him coming across as a dumbass...just don't use him.
Either use another villain whose fate isn't sealed by the movies, or invent a few good-guy characters that Grievous can kill.
And then we had Rebels.
It depends on the show. The 90's Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles had Bebop and Rocksteady who were bumbling idiots that failed to the Shredder's annoyance. But it fit within the tone of that show. Star Wars is a world with oppressive Empires and planet destroying lasers and the closest things to bumbling idiot villains in the OT were people like Ozzell who either in their carelessness or arrogance screwed up, but swiftly were dealt with for it by their tyrannical superior.
Grievous however is just a bumbling idiot that got "punished" for it in Grievous' Lair, though we never saw subsequent improvement nor lasting consequence from that episode.
Though I've got to say that no matter how much Grievous irritates me, the battle droids that have been in the picture since Episode I are the poster child of not how to handle bad guys. And it pains me to see Lucas when he talks about how useless they are and that the Jedi can cut through them like butter. If your villains pose no threat, you're doing something wrong. Yeah, there are those shows like 90's TMNT where the show is ultimately the good guys winning again and again and again, and is just a show for kids to see the good guys make fools out of the bad guys while the bad guys curse revenge. But Star Wars never had that tone in the films, and if you want to give a TV series that kind of tone, well then at least make it something totally separate, don't try to tell me that it takes place in between two of the films.
In the end I enjoyed TCW. But I'll never be able to watch TPM, then go watch TCW, and then continue with AOTC and see it as all one continuous story. TCW feels like something that stands apart. Like those miscellaneous side stories that Filoni implies the rest of the EU is.
"What's the situation, captain?" sticks in my mind; it always randomly appears in my head.
Perhaps that is because ypu are watching it between the wrong movies!
Whoops. I meant AOTC and ROTS
Does anyone with the Season 4 Blu-Ray remember this particular deleted scene in Massacre? It surely would have made Grievous a more badass and deadly warrior, but alas, it never got fully animated!
Note how effortlessly Grievous slaughters the Nightsister that jumps him early in his duel with Ventress? While not Jedi, Nightsisters are still powerful Force-sensitive combatants with highly-honed combat prowess. Had they kept this scene, we'd actually have more reason to respect TCW Grievous...not only that, but Ventress pulls off a Force Repulse to push the battle droids away, so she also comes out looking more badass as well. And Grievous looks less like a coward after his order for his droids to attack following his disarmament, after watching this scene; it was one of the Nightsisters that attacked first, striking down one of the battle droids, so he would probably consider his actions fair game, in a way. Make this conflict even less black-and-white. But alas....
There is one place I feel the criticism of how Grievous' character was portrayed has more merit than others. In CW we see him with a cloak/belt full of lightsabers he has taken from fallen Jedi and then we seem him take a few more. In TCW there is more evidence presented affirming his ability to take down a Jedi ("Grievous Intrigue"). I'm trying to think of an instance after that episode where he actually takes down a Jedi in one on one combat. I'm sure there is one and if so I'm sure I'll be reminded.
He kills the newly knighted former Padawan of Kit Fisto, Nadar in "Lair of Grievous". Other than that...
You're right. I got "Grievous Intrigue" and "Lair of Grievous" mixed up.I knew it was "Grievous" titled episode. So he doesn't kill a Jedi from EP 36 of TCW till he dies in EP III?
Same. Like "Two fighters against a star destroyer?", it's one of those lines that on paper is nothing, but the delivery (for better of worse) makes it memorable. I also have "We must diswupt all commoonication down dere!" in my head, lol.
I always assumed that the Sith employed Grievous because they knew he would run away at the first opportunity and keep the Jedi occupied and the war going for longer. It's still not an excuse for his treatment in episodes like Shadow Warrior but at least it would explain some of the writer's thinking behind the character and why George referred to him as a McGuffin.
I would think that a more effective strategy would be to get a guy that could whoop the Republic's butt and make the senate afraid enough to keep giving Palpatine more and more executive powers. Not having the guy that runs all the time and is beaten constantly. Makes me wonder why the senate felt they needed to keep Palpatine in office longer when the Jedi seemed like they could handle everything.
I always laugh at the line delivery in AOTC when one of the Neimodians says, "We must get duh starships, back into space!".
The one that sticks in my head is the Neimoidan from TPM "Impossibuhl! Nuthing can get through owah shield!" *Ship blows up*