Clone Wars Official "The Clone Wars" Series Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by RevantheJediMaster, Jul 15, 2005.

  1. Seerow SWTV★Mod

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    I liked the long arcs when there was suitable material. I think TCW needed more one off episodes peppered in like in older seasons. I think the bigger issue with the long arcs is they made the season feel so much sorter because it felt like far less was covered unlike in earlier seasons where we we're moving quickly through all kinds of topics and settings. On the otherhand I think the arc format would have slowly made TCW more linear. It seems like TCW was getting more that way as it was starting to wind down. I believe Brent Friedman recently said TCW would have ended in season 8.
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  2. Dark Lord Tarkas Force Ghost

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    Some three and four episode arcs worked because they had enough story to fill them, but there were a lot that didn't and Krell is a prime example.
  3. Seerow SWTV★Mod

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    But that's subjective as well. It can be argued "The General" is redundant but I tend to disagree. While Rex's character development does not feel like it jives with the rest of the arc "The General" is a necessary part to building toward the clones dissension.

    The Krell arc breaks down pretty neatly into 4 parts.

    1. Introduction of new characters and their struggles with their new general.
    2. Krell pushes the clones to the edge against the near impossible.
    3. Three clones finally rebel and turn the tide of the war.
    4. Those three clones are tried for dissension and Krell betrays the Republic forcing Rex (and Dogma) to finally confront him. Conclusion.

    Now yeah that didn't work for everyone because the 2nd episode still feels like the first one and its east to see where folks would get bored. But I think its probably one of the few that worked as four parts. Its hard for me to think of any other arc in TCW besides the big S5 Maul arc or the finale that needed all its parts.
    Last edited by Seerow, Dec 1, 2013
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  4. Dark Lord Tarkas Force Ghost

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    But he basically threatened to decapitate a clone in the very first episode, so with that being his darkest moment until the last episode I feel there's a lot of empty space in the two episodes between them. You're right though, it is subjective.
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  5. Seerow SWTV★Mod

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    I feel there are plenty reasonably dark moments in between. Its not all in your face like the threat of decapitation but think its pretty dark that in the two middle episodes Krell was sending clones against suicidal odds. Remember the tanks? That moment when the clones were like, "No way! how to we beat that? We are all going to die." Clone, after clone, after clone died violently waiting for Fives and Hardcase to get to the fighters all the while Krell was threatening Rex on the communicator every time he came up with an idea. That's war for you; cold, pointless, and endless darkness. Plan of Dissent was similar early in the episode when Krell wants to march the clones through missiles granted that didn't actually happen. Its the most upbeat episode of the 4 until the moment at the end when Krell darkly says they will be tried and executed.
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  6. Circular Logic SWTV Interview Host

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    So TCW earned two nominations in the 2013 Annie Awards, according to this TF.N article: one for "Character Animation in an Animated Television/Broadcast Production" and one for "Editorial in an Animated Television/Broadcast Production." Congratulations to Keith Kellogg and Jason W.A. Tucker for the nominations! Animation in TCW was definitely at its finest during Season 5.
    Last edited by Circular Logic, Dec 2, 2013
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  7. Obimus Primobi Jedi Master

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    TCW FTW!
  8. Darth Kickass Jedi Master

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    To me the most intriguing aspect of the Umbara arc was the emphasis on the clones' abilities to defy direct orders and think for themselves. I feel that was the prevalent message to be taken from these episodes. It wasn't just Rex and Fives who displayed this ability, but the entire firing squad, and in the end Dogma as well. It's as if this was a continuation of the individuality shown by Cut in "Deserter" and could very well foreshadow as yet unseen clone reaction to Order 66. I also found it interesting that Appo was apparently complicit in Krell's plan to have the clones fire on each other as he is the one in the hologram who delivers the false message about the Umbarans wearing clone armor.
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  9. Seerow SWTV★Mod

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    This is awesome news, its great to see TCW getting the recognition is deserved.

    You know I truly believe that if Fives had visited Cut's farm he would have turned him in or killed him. Fives just isn't as smart and free thinking as Rex. I've always felts it puts more spotlight on Rex's ability to think for himself. It takes some pushing but Rex is able to think outside the box and he's also the only one who asked the questions, "Why?" "What's the point?". He has a righteous side and takes on multiple duties. Fives may be the great independent ARC Trooper who with his charisma got two other clones to follow high lead. One who just wants to blow things up, the other one doesn't know why he's following along except he doesn't like the general. However in the end he still does everything he does out of loyalty for the Republic and he totally worships Anakin. Rex tossed Anakin under the bus reminding his soldier of their usual Jedi General's equally crazy and often costly plans (Think of "Weapons Factory').

    On Dogma, he was a broken clone by the time he execute Krell. Its pretty amazing the merciless clone who killed the helpess Umbaran and a few episodes later just kill Arguss just couldn't pull the trigger on Krell. Rex wanted to, he had the conviction, he's trembling, but he just can't make himself do it. Perhaps its part of his programming and he can't do it until he hears Palpatine give the order "Execute Order 66'. Then a switch will flip and he can do it. I hope the Order 66 arc upcoming give us some clues. Dogma was broken by the friendly fire incident so maybe he was the only one who could have pulled the trigger out of vengeance. And credit for this part goes to @QuangoFett who explains it much better.
    Last edited by Seerow, Dec 2, 2013
  10. EHT Manager: New Films

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    Yeah, true... but I personally still have concerns about them trying to tackle Order 66 and potentially not doing so very well.

    Also, I don't think Appo was complicit in Krell's plan... I think he was just relaying what he'd been told about the enemy wearing clone armor.
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  11. Kabers Jedi Youngling

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    Nov 25, 2013
    I have to ask, i once read somewhere that Dooku left the Jedi order because he lost faith in them, but in this show, it's implied that he has some sort of deep-seeded hatred for the order. Can anybody here shed some light on this?
  12. EHT Manager: New Films

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    Well, it's implied by AOTC and some novels that he left the order because he lost faith in the order and also in the Republic. After that, he was recruited by Palpatine, probably bought into Palpatine's lies/promises, and ended up pledging himself to Palpatine and the dark side. In the novel Labyrinth of Evil, it pretty much states that his point of no return was murdering Sifo Dyas at Palpatine's direction. So once he's done all that and become a Sith, it could be seen as a hatred for the Jedi emerging in him, even though he still seems to admire what the Jedi order once stood for. Kind of like how the Jedi (before realizing he's become a Sith) still respect him as a former member who quit because he was a political idealist.
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  13. Darth Valkyrus Force Ghost

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    It's interesting how TCW eviled him up with the Zygerria arc. Not only did he express a desire to see the Jedi "exterminated" but he also was quite fine with the idea of slavery.

    Before TCW with only the movies to go on, you might have thought he'd be above that. But TCW made him as depraved and monstrous as any Sith Lord.
  14. Circular Logic SWTV Interview Host

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    TCW unfortunately made Dooku rather one-dimensional: a mustache-twirling, Saturday morning cartoon-type villain. No real sign of the charming and charismatic leader that was hinted at in AotC and the EU, the kind of leader a more idealistic type like Mina Bonteri would followe. TCW did a decent job with his Sith Lord persona, but was utterly terrible at bringing forth any sign of his political idealism and charisma.

    Hate is what gives a Sith their power. Speaking of Sifo-Dyas, I'm hoping they keep the circumstances of his death canon. Given that it appears, from the trailer at that Polish event, that they are keeping his EU appearance, it seems likely they will adhere to this canon, if only in the broadest strokes, so hopefully it's made clear that Sifo-Dyas is indeed dead by AotC as the Jedi suspected. I wonder though, whether or not Dooku will play a role in the Yoda/Sifo-Dyas arc. It's a fine line they tread, but at least if they keep the circumstances of Sifo-Dyas' demise vague and reveal that it was Dooku who killed him (if they reveal that at all), I think the canon established in LoE is safe.
    Last edited by Circular Logic, Dec 3, 2013
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  15. Obimus Primobi Jedi Master

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    [face_laugh] For some reason I found this funny because Dooku is actually the most prominent villain in a cartoon that was broadcast on a Saturday morning.
    Last edited by Obimus Primobi, Dec 3, 2013
  16. Seerow SWTV★Mod

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    They basically made Dooku into Rita Repulsa (Because Sidious was Lord Zedd) which just really watered him down. I can pretty much set each TCW villain except for maybe Maul next to a classic Power Rangers villain TCW because that's how TCW treated them. That's not entirely TCW's fault. I feel like AOTC did set Dooku up that way by putting the bad guy stamp on his forehead and treating the CIS like the total bad guys right at the start. Still we never really got any villain centric episodes that let them follow Dooku and give him more character in the show granted we needed to meet more folks in the CIS who were not like the damn guy in Jedi Crash even more. That's a real shame. It really destroyed Mini Bonteri and "Heroes on Both Sides". After the Onderon arc she just doesn't make any sense to the point I feel like HOBS might as well be retconned out but then it wrecks the best parts of Ahsoka's character development in starting to be a little less black and white about the war.
    Last edited by Seerow, Dec 3, 2013
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  17. Obimus Primobi Jedi Master

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    Luckily you mentioned Power Rangers because, as someone who's never watched it, I had no idea who Rita Repulsa and Lord Zedd were. Well, when I say I never watched it I actually mean I avoided it on purpose.
    Do you mean Lok Durd from Defenders of Peace played by George Takei. You're criticizing Sulu? Oh My. :D
    Last edited by Obimus Primobi, Dec 3, 2013
  18. Seerow SWTV★Mod

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    Lol. 1993 was a good year in my life. I reserve Power Rangers references for when something is really bad however.

    Do you mean Lok Durd from Defenders of Peace played by George Takei. You're criticizing Sulu? Oh My. :D[/quote]

    The monster of the day thing not so much. Lok Durd is an example of an offender of that role. Ok, okay. Wat Tambor, the monster of the day in the Ryloth arc.
  19. Senator Kelberry Force Ghost

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    Lok Durd was OK until I read Clone Wars - Gambit. Not one of the best duologies in the EU but Lok Durd in those books was a total psycho. Violent, short-tempered, and downright sadistic. I tried a few times to read his lines in George Takei's voice in my head, but it just didn't fit. If that version of him had been in the show, it would've been all kinds of interesting to watch.
    Last edited by Senator Kelberry, Dec 4, 2013
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  20. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

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    I would have preferred Karen Miller's Lok Durd to the joke of a Lok Durd that we got in the show. And I say that as a big George Takei fan.
  21. BobaFan101 Jedi Youngling

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    Dec 3, 2013
    Hey I'm brand new to the forums. I had a couple "who would win in a fight" scenarios. And I looked and couldn't find these specific ones. If you find a thread with these feel free to let me know or if you want just comment your opinions.

    Cad bane vs Pre vizsla
    Me and my buddy were arguing about this one, while vizsla has the darksaber(I apologize if that's not what it's called) I don't believe bane would let the fight get close. And he's been able to handle Jedi. I feel he would win the match purely out of wits. Vizsla isn't the most patient or strategic, so I believe Bane would find a way to outthink him. Although I'm curious as to what you guy think.

    My next one would be General grevious vs Pre vizsla
    I personally could see this one going either way
  22. Seerow SWTV★Mod

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    Hmmm... who would win? The first fights a toughy. Pre Vizsla and Cad Bane are both full of tricks. Bane can disarm a Jedi as we saw in "Hunt For Ziro" and I just think he's smarter. Vizsla was totally full of himself and although he knew he was getting played Maul railroaded him like nothing. I think Bane would win.

    TCW Grievous vs Vizsla, Vizsla would definitely win.
  23. BobaFan101 Jedi Youngling

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    Dec 3, 2013
    Totally agree with the Bane vs. Viszla fight.

    I also agree with the second one. Just goes to show how weak TCW has made Grievous.
    But lets not start that up again
  24. Mia Mesharad Force Ghost

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    You should hear him speak about growing up with World War II and his family's experiences with Japanese internment camps, or his talks on the crap he's had to suffer through as a gay man in America and the ongoing struggle for equal rights. His range is striking compared to the general "Ohh myy!" overly-hammy routine he's usually called upon to provide, and the rawness with which he speaks in those discussions fits much better with the darker portrayal of Lok Durd from the Gambit novels.

    Pre Vizsla would almost certainly beat Cad Bane in an on-the-spot match. Bane's advantage in combat is almost always secured by his arsenal of weapons and tools, an arsenal matched and potentially exceeded by Vizsla's. Add to that Vizsla's all-encompassing Mandalorian armor comprised of either durasteel or beskar plates, and factor in his size and strength over the tough but more slender Duros and...yeah, I'd put money on Vizsla.

    However, in the case of an on-the-spot match between Vizsla and Grievous, my bets would firmly be on Grievous. The proper Grievous, not the joke of a villain TCW portrayed him as, who would lose to Vizsla just as assuredly as he lost to almost everyone else. The proper Grievous, as seen in Labyrinth of Evil for example, would overwhelm Vizsla with the sheer strength, dexterity, and speed of his cyborg body, not to mention his mechanically perfected grasp of lightsaber combat wielding multiple blades, and his higher-functioning cybernetic brain which would allow him to tactically assess and map out the fight much faster than Vizsla's wholly organic brain could. With prior planning and preparation instead of an on-the-spot bout, however, Vizsla would stand a greater chance of victory, but still without any guarantee.
  25. Togruta Force Ghost

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    Oct 30, 2010
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    Makes you wonder how Grievous would fare against drunken pirates.. :b
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