Clone Wars Official "The Clone Wars" Series Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by RevantheJediMaster, Jul 15, 2005.

  1. Legolas Skywalker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 6
  2. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 6
    Ugh, I don't know.

    My opinion of that arc has been stated already though.
  3. cwustudent Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 25, 2011
    star 4
    You can't fault Yoda for trying. Anakin did need to settle down. It didn't hurt him to have a project to keep him occupied. Fortunately for us, we had a few episodes throughout the series without Ahsoka (my favorite being Mandalore S2), including the bonus content(!), so Anakin can be a maverick for a while. That's my favorite Anakin. ;) Hopefully Ahsoka isn't anywhere near the Clovis arc. Perhaps that's why they saved it for the bonus content? So exciting!
    The M-word. I sense opinions forming...
  4. Legolas Skywalker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 6
    Maybe Ahsoka was a part of the Clovis Arc and that's why they removed it from S5?
  5. Cushing's Admirer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2006
    star 6
    Well, I don't understand the arc and am trying to decide if I bother rewatching and completing it. Yes, he certainly did need to settle but I rather thought the point was he never did. He always rather operated like he was above everyone and knew better which he clearly didn't. And it's precisely his maverickness that makes me shake my head that they entrusted an apprentice to him. He's a brash one. At least Dooku and Qui-Gon used reason and experience as a base to oppose the Order. To me, Anakin was always selfish and far too possessive.
  6. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 6
    She was nowhere in the previews.

    I hope she wasn't part of it, that's the arc I've been looking forward to since, oh, August of 2012.
  7. Darth Valkyrus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 12, 2013
    star 4
    It might have been smarter if they hadn't given Anakin an apprentice that was so like him.

    Anakin was a hawkish hothead who was quick to try solving any problem by sticking a lightsaber in it, applying a heavy dose of violent telekinesis, or just breaking out some high explosives and blowing **** up.

    They gave him for a padawan, Ahsoka - a hawkish young hothead who was quick to try solving any problem by sticking a lightsaber in it, applying a heavy dose of violent telekinesis, or just breaking out some high explosives and blowing **** up.

    The result was that they sort of fed into eachother. Instead of forming a proper Master-Apprentice relationship that would result in both of them learning restraint or patience etc, they quickly became more like brother and sister and went around winging it together like a couple of cowboys with laser swords. Which was fun to watch and all, but it probably wasn't how an ideal Jedi "should" develop.

    If a really reserved, prim and proper padawan like, oh... Barriss Offee had been given to the laconic, gung ho Anakin, while Ahsoka had been delivered to the serene, patient and meditative Luminara, it might have worked out better for everyone.

    Then again, "worked out better for everyone" is relative. Anakin still might have gone to the dark side, and Palps was still trolling the galaxy towards the creation of his Empire no matter what, Order 66 was still going to be coming down the pike at some point.
    Last edited by Darth Valkyrus, Jan 11, 2014
  8. Legolas Skywalker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 6
    Well she wasn't like him when she was introduced but his influence basically made her like him:p
  9. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 6
    Actually I thought she was like him when she was introduced. That's why I enjoyed her so much. I imagined Obi-Wan snickering and thinking "payback is such a *****." And the hawkish hothead duo going around sticking lightsabers into people they didn't like, throwing **** around with the Force and blowing **** up? So much fun that I was able to overlook the Artooeys.

    Among other reasons, I stopped liking Ahsoka in latter seasons because she became Luminara Jr. Plus that development made no sense given that she was trained by the brash hothead Anakin. And I love those traits in him, especially in the show. "What? He was going to blow up the ship!" [face_laugh]

    I could see the movie/season 1 personality match as an attempt to get Anakin to mature by giving him a dose of his own medicine. Not that it would work but I can see the thought process. And Ahsoka would protest if Anakin tried to leave her on a planet somewhere after he got annoyed. Barriss from The Approaching Storm would have just said, "My master must think I can do more good here."
  10. Darth Valkyrus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 12, 2013
    star 4
    @anakinfansince1983

    Well part of that may be the result of how they tried separating them more in later seasons to show the supposed growth or rising ability for independent functioning of Ahsoka. She was off doing stuff with Padme, running after Boba and Aurra Sing, with Padme again, with Lux, kidnapped by the Trandoshans, Padme and Lux again and the Death Watch, off to do the Green Beret thing on Onderon, babysitting the younglings... it meant there was a major lack of old style Butch Skywalker and the Shili Kid eps.

    Some of the old brother-and-sister, peas in a pod, back-to-back-badasses complimentary dynamic was showcased again right at the end, at the start of Sabotage during the running space-to-atmosphere starfighter battle at Cato Neimoidia. Of course then whatshisface back on Coruscant went kablooey in the temple, and everything went to hell.

    It appeared a few other times in the later seasons. When Anakin was on his blood fueled revenge hunt for Rako Hardeen he barged into a bar on Nal Hutta like Dirty Harry, with Ahsoka at his side, smashed stuff all over the place with the Force and then walked up and the two of them interrogated the barman. Ahsoka said something to the barman and he gave her a snide remark, at which point Anakin just raised his hand and started Force-choking him. And Ahsoka stood there with an expression on her face kinda like John Connor in T2 when the Terminator grabs the guy in the parking lot. "Now who's the dip**** you jock douche bag?" Yup. They were rollin hard the two of them and Force help anyone who got in their way. I liked that. The best Anakin&Ahsoka moment actually of that whole arc IMHO was when Anakin was down and Cad Bane was about to execute him, and out of nowhere Ahsoka drops in from above and stands over his body and looks at the two bounty hunters murderously, double dog daring them to try something. It reminded me strongly of Eowyn protecting Theoden from the Witch King in RoTK. "I will kill you if you touch him!" Tvtropes.org would call it a "Crowning moment of awesome".
    Last edited by Darth Valkyrus, Jan 11, 2014
  11. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 6
    Yep, and I really wish that dynamic had remained constant as opposed to their going for the "independent growth for Ahsoka" angle.
    Mzukiller likes this.
  12. Mzukiller Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 5, 2012
    star 2
    Giving Anakin an apprentice was a horrible idea. And to completely honest, I feel Ahsoka was the real adult/master in that relationship. Seeing as how Anakin is mostly an immature putz, or at least my preferred version of Anakin is.




    Star Wars already has gods, those what were they? Architects? Builders? God I think is a character at one point, I'll check wookieepedia after I submit this.

    But uh, yes I think they were going for a Holy Trinity thing with the Force there.
  13. Heero_Yuy Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 4
    I get the impression that the partial reason for the Mortis Trilogy was to clarify for people that Anakin is infact the Chosen One. You may think that wasn't necessary, but you'd be surprised at how many people still insist that the Jedi were wrong and that Luke was the true Chosen One.
  14. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 6
    Probably so.

    Of course my response to "Who is the real Chosen One?" has always been "Who cares?"
  15. Heero_Yuy Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 4
    Indeed. One of the things I liked about TCW is the fact that there were no references to Prophesies and Chosen Ones. In fact, I especially got irritated at the Cowboy Hatted One's talking about how much pressure Ahsoka would have in proving herself, due to her being Padawan to the Chosen One himself. You'd think the Council would want to keeping something line their MESSIAH possibly walking among their ranks under their hats, you know?
    Mzukiller and anakinfansince1983 like this.
  16. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 6
    The only scene I even remotely liked in Mortis was the one in which Ahsoka and Obi-Wan are both tied up and Anakin has to choose to save one of them.

    Ouch, Anakin.
  17. Darth Valkyrus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 12, 2013
    star 4
    R2D2 was the true chosen one. He saved every single protagonist character's life multiple times. He brought balance to the force.
  18. TaradosGon SWTV Mod - Like Palpatine with animals

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    Fans disputed the meaning of "balance," with some I recall arguing far more complicated and convoluted explanations merely than the literal balance between dark and light. And yes, some disputed whether or not Anakin was actually the Chosen One.

    But I don't know if Mortis was more for clarifying these issues to the fans, or to Anakin himself in universe. For instance, he himself begins to doubt the prophecy as his mind is preoccupied with his failures and he downplays that there is anything special about him or that he has any kind of important destiny, and Father tries to convince him that he is indeed the Chosen One. That just kind of falls apart though, because major developments in the Mortis arc don't carry over subsequently into following stories.

    Did Anakin learn to let go of his guilt? Doesn't really seem like it.

    Is Anakin now convinced that he's destined to destroy the Sith? If so, it's kind of odd that he just sat on the sidelines for the whole Maul thing and that he never changed the game plan for how exactly Anakin intended to find and take out the Sith.

    Anakin becomes evil to prevent evil. While some people think this is absolutely an idiotic turn of events, I don't mind it so much. That's a theme in Star Wars itself, and also in other properties - say for instance Star Trek: Into Darkness, the notion that to prevent evil we are in danger of becoming evil ourselves - the very evil we are trying to fight.

    In Star Trek we see this when Admiral Marcus tries to orchestrate a war with the klingons by attacking the klingons in order to justify a militarized Starfleet so that the Federation can better protect itself. Start a war in order to protect themselves.

    In Star Trek DS9, the Federation is in a war with an oppressive government and so one of the admirals tries to stage a coup and declare martial law so as to prevent the Federation from being subjugated by a foreign military. Oppress our own people to prevent being oppressed by a foreign government.

    In Revenge of the Sith, Padme even sits Anakin down and voices her concerns that the Republic is becoming the very evil that they've been trying to fight and sees that things are moving in the direction of a dictatorship - the Republic is giving up its freedoms to protect its freedom.

    In Mortis, Anakin fell to the Dark Side and adopted a might-makes-right attitude in order to combat the Dark Side evils of Palpatine.

    Where things got muddied for me is in the symbolism of the end. Anakin had no chance of killing Son without Father's suicide. Father represented balance, while his children represented the light and dark side. Daughter was killed and Son grew more powerful, skewing the balance. But then the balance had to be destroyed in order to kill the Son and restore balance? Huh?

    I liked Mortis overall, but I just felt like nothing it introduced conceptually was ever built upon.
    Last edited by TaradosGon, Jan 12, 2014
  19. Heero_Yuy Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 4
    The main issue with Anakin falling to the dark side the way he did is that we assume he's doing it to stop The Emperor. However, after he's joined The Son he tells Kenobi that it's the JEDI that stand in the way of peace?! Yeah, no. It doesn't add up.

    Though, if you want something to be taken from Mortis, I've heard fan theories about Ahsoka. Basically that when Daughter gave her life to Tano, the essence of one flowed into the other. In other words, Ahsoka has the Goddess of the light side within her. At the very least, it'd help to explain Ahsoka's sudden character shift from Brattsoka to Supersoka.

    (Supersoka? Wassat, she a squirt gun or sumtin? Tssss)
    Mzukiller and anakinfansince1983 like this.
  20. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 6
    Thanks, you just gave me another reason to hate Mortis.

    And I'm pretty sure a Supersoka was that large object that my brother used to chase me around and shoot me with on family vacations at the lake.
    Mzukiller and Heero_Yuy like this.
  21. Cushing's Admirer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2006
    star 6
    This has been interesting. My take has been that Luke is the Chosen One as well. He was the catalyst for Father's redemption and the downfall of the Sith. I think the poster above a bit has a good point. How 'balance' is taken differs from person to person.
  22. Heero_Yuy Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 4
    Well, initially GL stated that the Dark Side is a cancer on the Force and thus needs to be purged to restore balance. Later on, especially during the Mortis Malarky, it's stated that there is light and dark and so they must be kept in balance. Really, this is yet another example of Lucas changing his mind, regardless of whether or not it makes sense.
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  23. Mzukiller Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 5, 2012
    star 2
    The only scene I remotely liked was Ahsoka going to the dark side. I'm just upset that that didn't last.
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  24. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 6
    I did like Anakin hugging her when she came back. But yeah...Darksoka was appealing in a way.

    Then there was GogglesSnips. The one who will probably teach Chewie how to fix the Falcon.
  25. Cushing's Admirer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2006
    star 6
    Is TCW another series that viewing order is not production order? When that happens I get confused as to what order to do stuff in. I'm still hopeful for some help regarding Dooku and Tarkin please. I may see about renting their eps.