Clone Wars Official "The Clone Wars" Series Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by RevantheJediMaster, Jul 15, 2005.

  1. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    He's not thwarting any prophecy IF he successfully turns Anakin permanently.

    Anakin was never named in the prophecy, or else you'd think Qui-Gon would mention that. The prophecy likely says that someone will come along and do A, B and C. If Palpatine prevents A, B and C from happening, he is not thwarting the prophecy. He is merely showing that the prophecy has not come to pass YET.

    If there were a prophecy written in a holy book that says that a messiah will come and unite all the religions of the world under one banner and people started to think that I am that messiah, but then I get assassinated. Does that mean the prophecy was thwarted? No. It just means that they were incorrect in assuming I was the messiah to begin with.

    If Anakin were turned permanently, all that would prove is that he is not the Chosen One. There was the possibility that the individual that Qui-Gon thought was the Chosen One was not really the Chosen One. There was no guarantee that they had it right, though ultimately they did since Anakin did destroy the Sith.
    Last edited by TaradosGon, Jan 12, 2014
  2. Fives_Says_No_To_Sixes Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2013
    star 3
    She was. She just thought qui-gon was kinda cute and didn't want him to think less of her...


    :D
    Last edited by Fives_Says_No_To_Sixes, Jan 12, 2014
  3. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    It just seemed to me that Lucas was afraid to just let Shmi have sex like everyone else, so Anakin's conception had to be a melodramatic cluster****.
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  4. Fives_Says_No_To_Sixes Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2013
    star 3
    Well, it never is really is anything more than here-say by someone who doesn't want to make herself look bad...Even Qui-gon doesn't buy it completely. He tells the council that it was possible she was conceived by the midi-chlorians...not that she was. I take all of that as not meeting the burden of proof to be true. To me...Shmi was a "lady of the night."

    It makes sense...Anakin is basically Rorschach - growing up seeing his mom with all of these men. Thats why he wanted to get away from there and go to the Jedi Order - and why he has such a predisposition to vigilante justice (Tusken Raiders).
    Last edited by Fives_Says_No_To_Sixes, Jan 12, 2014
  5. Togruta Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2010
    star 4
    I think it's simple: Lucas wanted to make Anakin seem more special and mysterious. Nothing to do with Shmi's sex life (wth?), and I'll take the mysterious conception over Shmi being a hooker or whatever, thanks.
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  6. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    She didn't have to be a hooker. She could have been in a relationship that didn't work out, or the man could have died.

    I get that Lucas was going for the "special and mysterious" angle but I prefer the OT version of Anakin being simply a gifted Jedi who made bad choices.
    Force Smuggler and Heero_Yuy like this.
  7. Mzukiller Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 5, 2012
    star 2
    I was always hoping/expecting that Ahsoka would fall to the darkside. Then when it finally happens, and she goes full on bat**** insane it only lasts for 2 minutes. What a gip.
  8. Darth Valkyrus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 12, 2013
    star 4
    They could at least have let her fire off some Force lightning or something.

    But, nope. :(
    Last edited by Darth Valkyrus, Jan 13, 2014
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  9. Darth Kickass Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 2013
    star 2
    Okay. I think I've read everything relevant above before asking this, so here goes: Am I the only one who thinks Anakin did fulfill the destroying the Sith part of the prophecy when he sacrificed himself (one Sith down) to toss Sidious into the reactor shaft (two Sith down)? Now as far as the "bringing balance to the Force" part; not sure about that. I've always thought that true balance would indicate both good and evil surviving, and Luke is the only one to survive and we assume he is "good". Of course our opinions on this could change with the release of the BC and the ST.
  10. iPodwithnomusic Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 2012
    star 1
    I also think he fulfilled the prophecy by destroying both himself and Sidious, and I'm guessing that was George's intention.
  11. Heero_Yuy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 4
    That likely was Lucas' intention, that Anakin brought balance by destroying the Sith. The problem is, Lucas changes his mind all the time and often doesn't really think things through when he does. He doesn't have a vision so much as he has random whims.
  12. Mzukiller Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 5, 2012
    star 2
    The meaning of Bringing Balance to the Force has never really been clear. We were led to believe it would mean destroying the Sith, but then it turned out that it meant the Jedi had to be reduced to signifigantly fewer numbers, but then it turned out to mean "Yes, destroy the sith"
  13. Darth Valkyrus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 12, 2013
    star 4
    Maybe there was no real prophecy. I mean maybe the supposed prophecy was just the ramblings of some old Jedi centuries ago who was hitting the acid for reasons known only to himself. He was high as a kite and came out with this "prophecy" and ever since the Jedi have believed it, but it's all BS, and there s no chosen one, nor was the Force ever unbalanced nor was or will be balance brought to it.
  14. Heero_Yuy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 4
    You may be joking, but I've since been an advocate of there being no need to reference the Prophesy in Episode VII. Reason being?

    YODA: "A prophesy that misread, could have been."

    Coupled with it not being mentioned at ALL in the OT, it stands to reason that the Chosen One business was nothing but a crock.
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  15. Darth Valkyrus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 12, 2013
    star 4
    An argument could be made that Palpatine was the chosen one. He's possibly a better fit for it than Anakin.
  16. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    "Hey, wanna buy some death sticks?"

    "You don't want to sell me death sticks..."

    "I don't want to sell you death sticks..."

    "I might go home and prophecy something..."

    "You might go home and prophecy something..."

    "It might involve a so-called Chosen One who loses his damn mind..."

    "It might involve a..." *blinks* "OK, you're right, selling you death sticks would be a really really bad idea."
  17. Legolas Skywalker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 6

    Anakin was the Chosen One.
  18. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    You know its bad when Maul starts talking about it, 3 minutes after his mind's been restored.:p
  19. Fives_Says_No_To_Sixes Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2013
    star 3

    In-Universe, I think this ^ is very plausible. Out-of-Universe, Lucas has specifically stated in interviews, "Anakin is the Chosen one. And even when Anakin turns into Darth Vader, he is still the Chosen One...The prophecy is that Anakin will bring balance to the force and destroy the Sith. He becomes Darth Vader. Darth Vader does become the hero. Darth Vader does destroy the Sith - meaning himself and the Emperor. He does it because he is redeemed by his son. So the prophecy is true. And by doing that, he redeems himself and goes from being Darth Vader back to being Anakin again." (- The Chosen One featurette on the ROTS dvd)

    ......of course, that was back in 2005 so who knows how many times he could've changed his mind since then.
  20. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    Meh. The Chosen One stuff is a bunch of rubbish... the force didn't redeem Skywalker... Kenobi rewarded him.

    Just ask Ryder Windham.
    ;)
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  21. Legolas Skywalker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 6

    No, Luke did ;)
    SithStarSlayer likes this.
  22. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    "Quantum Being" might be my favorite chapter, in all of Star Wars publishing... SC20140114-220218.jpg Balance is achieved by destroying those who seek to transcend the force.
    Last edited by SithStarSlayer, Jan 14, 2014
  23. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    That's all well and good for the EU to try and fill in massive gaps left by Lucas, but for those gaps to even exist is a massive storytelling flaw of Star Wars. As someone that doesn't read *much* EU, I would NEVER arrive at that conclusion based on what's in the films themselves, and many fans' knowledge of Star Wars isn't going to expand far beyond what they merely see on the movie screen, or even TV screen.

    All that really gets known is that the Sith unbalance the Force for unknown reasons while the Jedi do not, and that only the Sith seem to do so, not Dark Jedi or non-Force using evil individuals. There is a preoccupation of the Jedi in destroying the Sith (it actually wasn't very pre-occupying, since that seemed to be on the backburner for much of AOTC and TCW), and that destroying the Sith is going to make everything better, when the Sith weren't really shown to do anything to shape the galaxy that a non-Force using senator could not have also done.

    Take the Force away from Palpatine and he could still get into office by sympathy vote, stage a crisis, scapegoat the Jedi, issue Order 66, become Emperor and build a WMD to create a reign of terror.

    They build up this situation that is reminiscent of Lord of the Rings (in which characters constantly remark about sensing evil, or where we see supernatural powers at work), but in Star Wars, outside of telekinesis or Force lightning, we hardly see how evil Force users SPECIFICALLY are shaping the galaxy for the worse and imbalancing the Force. The EU has the capacity to fill in gaps, but when there are such major gaps over a major plot point, that it needs to be addressed in a subordinate canon rank seems like damage control.

    Like for instance in Star Trek: Into Darkness, they found the whitest guy they could find to play a character that was previously played by a Latino actor, and that is in the canon supposed to be Sikh. The reason the character was supposed to be Sikh was to dissociate the racist notion that a "superman" is some Nordic/Germanic "Aryan." That in the 1990s (envisioned during the 60s), a Sikh could be superior. In Into Darkness they did a complete 180 and turned this superior non-white character into a white Brit because the writers felt uncomfortable making the villain non-white. The original idea was meant to be progressive and show superiority irregardless of race, while the writers make him white for fear of being racist.

    Now there is a comic tie-in to that film that is trying to reconcile how he goes from a Sikh to a white guy. Which is all well and good that they are actually addressing that issue. But for such a classic, non-white character played by a non-white actor to all of a sudden be cast with the whitest guy they could find in the role, that should have been addressed on screen. It's damage control.

    And I only bring Star Trek up because it's a property that I assume the majority of people here are not nearly as invested in as Star Wars (if at all), so I feel the role its EU plays in filling in gaps left by the film is more objectively recognizable as a shortcoming.
    Last edited by TaradosGon, Jan 15, 2014
  24. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    I can only hope that Lumiya gets the chance to have her say.
    [face_mischief]
  25. Darth Valkyrus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 12, 2013
    star 4
    Episode VII takes a Game of Thrones twist when Han and Leia have a deformed child. Investigation of their DNA reveals a horrific truth. Turns out Padme had a secret pregnancy by Rush Clovis during her relationship with him. After the breakdown of that relationship, she gave the newborn away for adoption on Corellia. Unfortunately the supposed adoptive parents were crooks of some type, and the baby was soon seized from them and placed into a seedy orphanage. A while after that, he was found and taken in by a bounty hunter called Garris Shrike... And the rest is history.

    The horror.