Clone Wars Official "The Clone Wars" Series Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by RevantheJediMaster, Jul 15, 2005.

  1. IG_2000 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 5, 2008
    star 4

    I'd rather see an old Ahsoka get killed by Darth Vader in Rebels.

    They didn't waste money on an adult Ahsoka model for a three second cameo on Mortis, trust me.
    Last edited by IG_2000, Mar 8, 2014
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  2. klooney Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2009
    star 1
    After watching TCW bonus content, Netflix is now recommending to me various Power Rangers titles (I had no idea there could be so many), cartoons and Disney channel movies.
    Revanfan1 and Force Smuggler like this.
  3. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Netflix has been doing that to me for awhile but I have kids. And they've been watching Lab Rats.
    Revanfan1 likes this.
  4. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    20 seasons or so. Plus how many ever seasons of the Japanese show that inspired Power Rangers.
    Seerow likes this.
  5. SlashMan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2012
    star 3
    I think the biggest revelation is that the clones were turned into the victims as well; they were forced against their will to turn on their friends and commanders. Still, I think we may have gotten a bit too much of Palpatine/Sidious. One of the reasons the series doesn't work as a direct bridge between movies is that it's painfully obvious that Palpatine is Sidious, we see lots more of Palpatine acting overtly evil, while in the PT, there were only vague traces of his true role in his dialogue. Another nitpick I had was with the Rush Clovis arc, and that's that Anakin just comes across as a meatheaded jerk. Though afterwards, he just goes back to being a strong leader.

    The Sifo-Dias arc was what really impressed me. The visuals and revelations were astounding. I also saw a reference to the Batman: The Animated Series episode, Perchance to Dream with Yoda's hallucination of an ideal world, with the Jedi Temple at peace. The hallucination in the cave was also startling, considering most of that was directly out of ROTS. Also, I noticed they used Shaak-Ti's filmed death for that sequence. I do have one question, though; are the lifeless beings that Yoda encounters supposed to be the Whills?
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  6. Mzukiller Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 5, 2012
    star 2
    Before I even finish watching the first Lost Episode, I just really need to say; I never gave this show enough credit for how beautiful it looked in later seasons.
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  7. ReigningHope Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2014
    Anyone else annoyed at Fox's apathy after he killed Fives? I noticed that he neglected to join the mourning circle, even though everyone else in the room did, after Fives died.
  8. SpecialOpsUnit Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 1, 2007
    star 4
    I don't think Fox has ever shown apathy, honestly. The 2nd episode of the Fugitive Ahsoka arc pretty much confirms it. He was shooting to kill until Anakin gave the order that he wanted Ahsoka brought in alive.

    He could of easily stunned Fives, but went for the killing blow instead. Funny if Fives had his ARC armor on, which added extra chest protection he might of survived the first blast.
    Revanfan1 likes this.
  9. ImNotAStarWarsFanboy Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2011
    star 5
    Yeah Fox has always been a cold commander. Usually because he's the bad guy.
  10. Skaddix Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2012
    star 4
    Yeah the Jedi Order was dogmatic and had grown complacent but where is the self accountability for Anakin? I mean really he got plenty of leeway as is that he would not have gotten if he was not the Chosen One. Dogmatic and Complacent in no way justifies Order 66. Anakin was always an angry, self centered and entitled brat with no common sense. No wait Mace we got to take him alive...right Anakin just like how you took Dooku alive? I mean I could almost buy this if Padme was already laying in a hospital bed.
  11. ReigningHope Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2014
    Finally saw the Yoda arc (I'm skipping the Clovis arc (aside from Anakin's beatdown) and Jar Jar Arc for now).
    At the very end, before Yoda leaves Korriban/Moriband, he's told of another Skywalker and mentions a new path that opens to give them victory for all time. Does this make Luke the Chosen One or is it still Anakin?
  12. SpecialOpsUnit Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 1, 2007
    star 4
    It is still Anakin.

    What he saw was a bit of the future and what his last words will be. We all know those are his last words in ROTJ.
  13. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    @Skaddix : for whatever reason, it's just fun to beat up on Jedi.

    @ReigningHope : I have no idea. I liked some of the OT references in that arc, but that particular one made no sense whatsoever. Especially given the fact that unless Padme is already pregnant, Luke does not exist. Even if she is, "there will be another Skywalker" would be the better line.

    ETA: since the arc is about preserving one's identity after death, I suppose the "last words" idea makes sense.
    Last edited by anakinfansince1983, Mar 8, 2014
  14. QuangoFett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2011
    star 4
    I just noticed something odd about Fox's behaviour in Fives' death scene.

    We don't actually see Fox after he pulls the trigger edit: he simply regards the dying Fives from a distance. A regular shocktrooper takes off his helmet and looks remorseful, followed by seven others, but Fox isn't one of them. The clones who pay their respects to Fives are all regular shocktroopers, with Fox off-screen. Perhaps he feels too culpable for Fives' death to join them in good conscience. There are other, perhaps less flattering, interpretations as well.
    Last edited by QuangoFett, Mar 8, 2014
  15. Revanfan1 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2013
    star 5
    For all of the above reasons, I've never been a big fan of Fox. He seemed a bit too cold about it all. He was more than willing to kill Ahsoka in cold blood (though I guess I would've too if facing a Jedi), and he shot to kill with Fives. He has never shown any sympathy for his targets, even when one of them was technically his own brother. He could've easily stunned Fives. However, I can't completely blame him because if his blaster was already set to kill, he wouldn't have said "Oh wait he's my brother" and switched it to stun when Fives already had a gun trained on him.

    I do feel like Fox was a bit vilified for a clone in this show, though. I think at this point in time (just a personal suspicion) Fox and his closest lieutenants knew that Palpatine was Darth Sidious. Maybe not the lower-ranked shock troopers like the ones who removed their helmets to honor Fives, but definitely Fox and at least the ones that were in the room when Palpatine gave the spiel to Fives.
  16. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    3/4 BC arcs are among the best stories of the series, IMO.

    And if I could go back in time with the series, trim all of the fat and make the series 2-3 seasons long, and fit it in between AOTC and ROTS, they would be phenomenal.

    But at least with the Yoda arc and the Order 66 arc, while they are fantastic by themselves, when I try to watch them within the greater context of the films, they present awkwardness, IMO.

    For instance the Jedi have become retroactively the biggest idiots ever.

    Even before the Lost Missions, I thought the Jedi were kind of dumb for using the clones after AOTC and without Obi-Wan's investigation leading to any conclusions.

    But after the bonus content, particularly the two aforementioned arcs, it's all right there for the Jedi to see. They still may not know that Palpatine is the Sith, but it should be clear as day that the Sith ordered the army with the intent of using it to kill the Jedi. After Obi-Wan/Anakin find out that Dooku is Tyranus, they should have gone through and eliminated the chips from every single clone, especially after what Fives had said + Yoda's vision. And had they done so, they could have thwarted Palpatine. Instead they are inexplicably idiots, with Order 66 completely blindsiding them in ROTS.

    This content, however good as a standalone story, makes me think the Jedi are BIGGER idiots than I already found them to be after AOTC. Yoda might have faith in them as brave soldiers and comrades that have saved his life, but it was also previously established that they had chips in their brains, the degradation of one having had the outcome of a clone killing a Jedi. Add to this the fact that Dooku is Tyranus and.... my God... idiocy as far as the eye can see.

    Mace: I sense a plot to destroy the Jedi.

    [IMG]

    Mace (continued): The Dark Side surrounds the Chancellor.

    Does what Fives told Anakin ring any bells?

    Last edited by TaradosGon, Mar 8, 2014
  17. StarWarsFan91 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2008
    star 4
    Perhaps the Jedi should have strengthened their levels in the power of common sense.

    Common sense, when put to the test, can be more powerful then many force abilities as well as a lightsaber.
  18. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I think this was intentional on the writers' part. I think they didn't like the Jedi and wanted to write them to look as bad as possible.
    Arawn_Fenn likes this.
  19. Darth Kickass Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 2013
    star 2
    I do think the writers were trying to convey some sort of "pride before the fall" aspect to the Jedi and the Jedi Order in TCW, especially the last few eps of S5 and the BC.
    Seerow likes this.
  20. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    It pisses me off. And I'm still solidly in the Jedi's camp. Order 66 came about because Palpatine had the political acuity to infiltrate the government; he did not fight openly like ancient Sith and therefore the Jedi were unprepared.

    But in my head-canon, they are not stupid. Unprepared due to dealing with a Sith methodology they had never seen, sure. But idiots? No. And in any way culpable for Order 66? Hell to the no.

    That's why some of the S5 and BC writing bugs me. I see what you're doing there, writers. Making the Jedi look stupid so that Ahsoka and the clones can look good. It's not cool and I'm not buying it.
    Wella Targana and Barriss_Coffee like this.
  21. WampaSwamp Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2011
    star 1
    Except that they were already reassured by Palpatine that there was nothing wrong with the "inhibitor" chips and that Tup and Five's erratic behaviour was caused by some native parasite. It wasn't until by ROTS that the jedi began to get more suspicious of the chancellor. Anakin didn't believe what Fives said and what Yoda saw was as far as he knew a vision of what could theoretically happen. After all, it's not as if Luke really cut off Vader's head and found his face underneath the mask right?
    Last edited by WampaSwamp, Mar 8, 2014
  22. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4

    Since when have the Jedi really believed Palpatine?

    It's a fact now known to the Jedi that Dooku ordered the clone army. That in itself should be enough to, you know, stop using an army created by your mortal enemy whose goal it is to destroy the Jedi.

    On top of this, you have the Kaminoans who resided outside of the Republic (at the time the order for the clones was placed), with Dex saying that they are friendly to those with wealth. Their benefactor for the initial batch of clones was a Sith. Where did the Jedi expect the Kaminoan loyalty ultimately lay?

    Add to this a clone whose chip "malfunctions" and he starts rambling about having orders to kill Jedi. Shaak Ti even sees this first hand, arriving to the conclusion that Fives must have been brainwashed and that this is no virus. So the excuse "oh, it's just a parasite" should not sit well with her or the rest of the Jedi, since going with the hypothesis that Palpatine is pushing, the parasite would degrade the chip meant to suppress independence among the clones, but that no way explains where Tup got it in his head that he had orders to kill Jedi.

    Yoda initially defends the clones saying that they've saved his life and that they are good people, and so he idiotically just dismisses the threat posed by the Sith. But then later has a vision of these clones killing Jedi. Even if this is just a possible future, it is still indicative that the clones can turn on the Jedi. That under the right circumstances, they will turn on the Jedi and slaughter them. And we've seen a clone turn on the Jedi, and it had something to do with the chip, put in all clones, with the clone army being ordered by a Sith.

    This is pretty straight forward. Regardless of what Palpatine says.

    Mace's dialogue in ROTS makes it sound like the plot against the Jedi is a revelation that he's just beginning to realize. The BC turns him into Captain Obvious, since they are fully aware of a plot against them. And at the time that they realize that the Dark Side surrounds the Chancellor, they should be revisiting the idea that perhaps Fives was not crazy, and that he was telling the truth when he alludes to the fact that the Chancellor is involved in a plot to wipe out the Jedi using the chips implanted in all the clones.

    Instead the Jedi are preoccupied with going after Grievous to see what Palpatine does once he's captured.
    Last edited by TaradosGon, Mar 8, 2014
  23. melkor834 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2009
    star 3
    How can the Jedi just stop using the clones? They can't just throw out their army; they need the clones to stop the Separatists. The Jedi's ultimate (and pretty much only achievable goal) is to end the war as fast as possible before the Sith trigger their endgame.

    As for why they didn't see Order 66, Palpatine elegantly made it appear that the inhibitor chip was nothing more than a way to suppress violence in the clones and to make them more obedient. And he did a great job with it, as Fives appeared to degrade into a raving lunatic who threatened to kill even the chancellor after having his chip removed.
    Last edited by melkor834, Mar 8, 2014
  24. ReigningHope Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2014
    So where does Order 65 fit into all of this? I doubt that Palpatine would have a plan meant to kill himself. Did Dooku add it so that he could rise above Palpatine? Did the Kaminoans throw it in in case Palps threatened them? I get that the chips were placed in the clones as part of a plan to turn them into slaves that kill Jedi, but I don't see the point of commisioning an army that could easily turn against you.
  25. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Insurance policy probably. If both can be taken out then no problems if discovered.