Clone Wars Official "The Clone Wars" Series Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by RevantheJediMaster, Jul 15, 2005.

  1. Circular Logic SWTV Interview Host

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    So SW.com just released a portion of Filoni's interview back in December, which contains some spoilers for the Yoda arc. He explains how this arc reveals how Yoda came to become the wise Master of TESB following the events of this arc. Just about everything he says seems to coincide with most of what we've speculated in the Yoda Arc Discussion thread. Here is a pertinent excerpt:
    He hints that Yoda wanted Luke to understand all of this and then come to the conclusion on his own that in order to defeat the Emperor, Luke has to come to the realization on his own that his father can be saved. That's an interesting view of what Yoda and Obi-Wan say in RotJ, that while they figure that Vader will likely have to be destroyed, they, Yoda especially, seem to understand that there is still yet a small flame of hope, perhaps even a part of Anakin Skywalker that still yet lives, and that it is up to Luke to bring that out of Vader. Recall the final test in Sacrifice where Yoda battles Darth Sidious in a vision. The whole setup is a reflection of the final Death Star II scene when the Emperor is torturing Luke with lightning. In this case, Anakin Skywalker takes the place of Luke while Yoda takes the place of Vader. The analogy is twisted around such that it's suitably different, but here Yoda and Vader/Anakin must make a choice that would determine whether they are worthy of becoming a Force ghost by gaining the necessary insight that it is ultimately not through war and violence that one can defeat the great evil of the Sith, but through love and selflessness. Yoda chooses to save Anakin and sacrifice himself to defeat Sidious in his vision, in much the same way that Vader chooses to sacrifice himself to save his son and destroy the Emperor.

    The final insight that Yoda gains, then, is illustrated perfectly at the end of the RotS novel: "The dark is generous, and it is patient, and it always wins—but in the heart of its strength lies weakness: one lone candle is enough to hold it back. Love is more than a candle. Love can ignite the stars." It is this insight that Luke gains in his final confrontation with Vader that ultimately allows the prophecy of the Chosen One to finally be fulfilled.
  2. Seerow SWTV★Manager

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    Me neither and we've watched every one of them multiple times. The Clone Wars' central character is Anakin. The series is primarily about the journey of Anakin Skywalker through the clone wars and those who were around him although it did sometimes go off into tangents with other characters' whose stories added dimension to the time he was in. Ahsoka is something like the deuteragonist.

    and @Circular Logic and @Dave Filoni. Mind = Blown. That is an interesting way to look at Yoda and Obi-wan in ROTJ and how it all comes together. Its amazing how TCW does indeed add to the saga. Because of TCW really fleshing out the complicated hero Anakin was during the clone wars I now tear up when he dies.
    Last edited by Seerow, Mar 12, 2014
  3. henryj95 Jedi Master

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    Mar 10, 2014
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    Hey guys! I just watched the Yoda arc for a second time and I noticed something that (although not a huge revelation) is super exciting! When Palpatine force chokes Dooku by hologram, it is on the grounds that Dooku letting the Jedi follow a trail about Sifo-Dias is not the first time that he has been clumsy. What I didn't realize before is that this is a reference to Palpatine commanding Dooku to eliminate Ventress! Thanks to the trial of Ahsoka that Palpatine oversaw, he is now aware of the fact that Ventress is still alive.
  4. Jedi Knight Fett Chosen One

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    Very nice find.
  5. Paparazzo Force Ghost

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    I'd have the exact same face as Dooku if somebody had one lightsaber at my neck and another so close to my genitals.
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  6. Circular Logic SWTV Interview Host

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    I noticed interesting parallels between the events of two of the "Lost Missions" arcs with two arcs from Season 5. Namely, Onderon and Clovis as well as the Ahsoka Fugitive arc and the Order 66 arc. The former two arcs end similarly, with a situation where the Hypotenuse is killed. In both instances, the main Jedi character attempts to save the other character who has feelings for the love interest (although I don't think Ahsoka and Lux really applies, despite the conflicted feelings, meh), but ultimately fails. The latter two arcs has the protagonist becoming a fugitive, pursued by those whom s/he once trusted, all the while trying to uncover the truth. The parallel here is obvious, even down to the main character escaping into the Coruscant underlevels.

    What's more, these stories must have been very close together in the minds of the writing committee, because based on production code the Clovis arc was written following the Onderon arc and the Order 66 arc was written following the Fugitive arc! Running out of ideas?
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  7. 07jonesj Force Ghost

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    Aug 16, 2010
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    George Lucas is massive on what he once called "rhyme" or parallels. The PT parallels the OT in many, many ways. Dialogue is repeated, scenarios are similar. I wouldn't be surprised if this was his decision.

    Whether that means he has a lack of ideas, I'm not sure. That's just the way he likes to tell his stories.
  8. Force Smuggler Chosen One

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    Sep 2, 2012
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    I bet we will see several rhymes in the ST as well. Just no Luke as the mentor dies.
  9. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

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    It's like poetry. Or something.

    I don't know that it's a lack of ideas either, it just gets old after awhile.

    I hope the ST isn't too repetitive. Or only repeats the good stuff.
  10. Force Smuggler Chosen One

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    Like the Evil mastermind watching his apprentice fight who would replace them.
  11. 07jonesj Force Ghost

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    I'd also like to add that although the plot between those two sets of two arcs is very similar, they still feel very different because of the characters involved. Often, people bunch the characters and the plot together in a critique, but the entire tone of the story is changed depending on whether you have Ahsoka or Fives as your main character. The relationship between Anakin/Padme/Clovis and Ahsoka/Lux/Steela was also very different, with the latter being much more innocent.

    Myself, I don't like too much of this. I really like the fact, as mentioned in the Yoda thread, that the scenario in ROTS and ROTJ returns to task Yoda. But it takes me out of the experience when lines are used over and over again by different characters, especially if it's done too often as in the first season of TCW. A little goes a long way when dealing with this, I feel.
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  12. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

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    They can arrive at the same general outcome without achieving it by the exact same means.

    E.G. Obi-Wan dies. But not really, since his consciousness survives death and he continues to lead Luke, ultimately leading him to Yoda who takes over training. Then when Yoda dies, Luke walks out of Yoda's hut and gets one last conversation with Obi-Wan, sitting on a log as though the man were still alive. So Luke's mentors "die," in theory, but they are never really removed from the picture.

    Compare that to Obi-Wan losing his mentor, and it was far more absolute. Obi-Wan has a conversation with Qui-Gon again on Mortis, but remained skeptical as to whether that was actually Qui-Gon and we really see Obi-Wan turn more to Yoda and Mace for guidance, but neither one really fills Qui-Gon's shoes in the same way that Yoda filled Obi-Wan's in the OT, only for Obi-Wan to in turn fill Yoda's again in ROTJ after Yoda dies.

    Speaking hypothetically of Episode VII. They could just as well have Luke get separated from the protagonists. Mirroring the "rhyme" of the apprentice losing his mentor as has happened both in the OT and PT, but without requiring physical death. Obi-Wan didn't really die, in the sense that there was nothing absolute about it. He became omnipresent and could manifest from the Force anywhere. Which made Luke's experiences far more different than Obi-Wan's, despite the "rhyme."

    Whereas if Luke merely is captured/incapacitated/separated and does not die, that could create a much different situation more akin to Obi-Wan's experience, in that while Luke doesn't die, he also never becomes one with the Force because of it, and so cannot come back and counsel the protagonist in the same way that Obi-Wan did in ANH, ESB and ROTJ.

    You can have "rhymes" that still carry with them varied outcomes/experiences for the characters and audience.
    Last edited by TaradosGon, Mar 13, 2014
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  13. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

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    Mar 4, 2011
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    I just realized something.

    As much as I hate love triangles...I'll make an exception for one that ends with Anakin beating the crap out of Clovis. :p
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  14. Dark Lord Tarkas Force Ghost

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    Apr 29, 2011
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    I'm honestly not too crazy about the repetition of the same lines even in the films themselves. I find Anakin's "Here's where the fun begins" at the start of Ep. III cringe-worthy because of the delivery and the line itself.
  15. Legolas Skywalker Force Ghost

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    No way man, best line ever written :p jk.
  16. Revanfan1 Chosen One

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    It's not technically a love triangle when the woman is married. Or it shouldn't be. [face_laugh]

    Really? I love that line.
  17. Legolas Skywalker Force Ghost

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    Sep 3, 2012
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    How funny would it be if Clovis was actually the father of Luke and Leia? [face_laugh]
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  18. Dark Lord Tarkas Force Ghost

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    I have no problem with the line when it's heard for the first time in the OT, I have a problem with GL's whole line-repetition thing in general and the Ep. III repetition was my example.
    Last edited by Dark Lord Tarkas, Mar 13, 2014
  19. Force Smuggler Chosen One

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    Sep 2, 2012
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    "Here's where the fun begins" was a great line. Hayden was great in ROTS imo.

    @Legolas Skywalker Ew. Not cool. Not cool at all.
  20. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

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    "Not cool" doesn't even begin to cover it.
  21. Revanfan1 Chosen One

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    @Legolas Skywalker, you made me laugh, but I honestly feel pale, worrying that a retcon is in our future.

    [IMG]
  22. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

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    But... she did it for the Republic!
  23. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

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    No wonder the Republic became an Empire.
    Revanfan1 likes this.
  24. Revanfan1 Chosen One

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    Palpatine had 72 wives and 250 concubines.
  25. Legolas Skywalker Force Ghost

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    She did it for The Rock :p