Full Series Official "The Clone Wars" Series Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

You're entirely welcome to your views. I simply don't share them. They are very plainly shown to be hypocrites the whole Saga. The Sith are right on that. I too don't like being force-fed my my views.

 

The Jedi are the only likable people in the setting if you want to ask me. Well, clones too of course. But everyone else? Too much corruption. You can honestly feel the sleaze dripping off the walls.

 

Yes you can. *All* are corrupt it's simply we are *told* the Jedi are good when clearly they use the same tactics as everyone else. I don't buy it and never will. All are grey, I don't like Jedi, and I empathise with the Empire and Sith.

 

You just became my favorite person in this thread. Well said

 

I think the Sith are too moronic to be called "dangerous". If the Sith took over the galaxy I lived in, I wouldn't live in fear. Rather, I would just wait for the leader's apprentice to betray the leader.

 

Demonstrably false and utter nonsense.

Even an "intellectually disabled" person with a gun is dangerous. "Too moronic to be called dangerous" is just nonsensical.

A galaxy in which the Sith even exist overtly, much less rule, is a terrifying galaxy.

You would just wait for the leader's apprentice to betray the leader? What would happen then? Problem solved?

 

When the apprentice betrays the leader, the Jedi and Republic use the oppertunity to free the galaxy, so yes, problem solved.

 

I'd wait 23 years.

That wasn't neccessary all the other times.

 

Gav betraying Sadow, Ulic betraying Kun, Malak betraying Revan, Sion and Nihilus betraying Traya, somebody betraying Vitiate, Ruin's followers betraying him, Bane betraying Kaan, Wyyrlock betraying Krayt

 

Really, you're being absurdly ridiculous here, you've concocted a fantasy for yourself that isn't even remotely close to Star Wars.

You're ignoring the mass destruction, death, slavery and suffering the Sith have inflicted all over the galaxy for thousands of years.

You're basically hoping that that suffering somehow doesn't touch you or anyone or anything you care about. I guess that's why you're not afraid, you're going to stick your head in the ground like an ostrich and wait for the Jedi and the Republic to hopefully save you. Good plan! The only way a person could possibly feel safe is if they live on some backwater planet that isn't on any map or even known by the galactic community. And then hope that planet isn't anywhere near some star some Sith feels like blowing up and causing to go supernova.

This is like saying 9/11 wasn't scary because you don't live in New York.

This is like a totally not Jewish Aryan person who thinks Nazis are "too moronic to be dangerous" living totally unafraid in Nazi Germany in the 30s and 40s because Hitler is going to screw everything up and the Allies will win in the end.

You're saying the Sith, of all people, aren't dangerous or scary. Psychopathic and often psychotic mass murdering sadists aren't scary. Give me a break, you probably couldn't stay in the same room with a Sith without pissing your pants. I know I wouldn't want to be in the same room with someone who kills for lulz, but I guess I'm not brave like you.

No one got hurt before, during, or after any of this! These Sith were no danger to anyone whatsoever! No need to fear them! Everyone was safe!

The Sith have never been any cause for concern or fear, nor have they ever been dangerous to anyone but themselves. They always appear and simply destroy themselves without causing any damage to anyone or anything but themselves. They're the Sith! That's what they do! This is Star Wars!

 

One Sith Lord who does have a brain is Ludo Kressh. He knew better than to risk the Empire that the Sith already had.

 

The Sith are implied to have done fine in the past with their previous methods. Palpatine refers to the Sith having once ruled the galaxy, as implied by the use of the words "once more." And as per Darth Bane, it was the Sith that destroyed each other, not the Jedi that destroyed the Sith. But with the Rule of Two in affect, the destruction of intra-Sith conflict would be significantly lessened.

Sifo-Dyas, per Filoni, was directed to Kamino by Dooku, who was already being influenced by Palpatine. Dooku was also the one that pretty much gave Sifo-Dyas the blank check to order the clone army. The Sith funded it, but used Sifo-Dyas to order it. Remove the Sith from the picture, and that army likely never would have existed.

Many, many, many [...] many, many, many regimes have been overthrown, whether via revolution or external conquest for lengths of time far, far longer than Palpatine's pathetic 23 year reign. There is nothing inherently flawed about invading the Republic from outside, as Naga Sadow and Vitiate attempted.

But that's not even what happens. Politics split the Republic in two. Padme even points out in Heroes on Both Sides, that many Senators that she considered friends left to join the Separatists. They were all once part of the same government. And Palpatine could evoke moral justification.

Tatooine is said to lay beyond the reach of Republic space. Geonosis is just a hop away and was heavily implied to also be outside of Republic space. EU maps put both planets in Hutt space. So while the CIS crisis has being going on for years, they are not the ones that make the first move. Yes, there's talk of making the first move, but the only reason that Obi-Wan even hears this is because he's trespassing on a planet outside of Republic space. The Geonosians apprehend him and schedule his execution, and then a Jedi task force of 200 invades the planet. That would look like an aggressive act of war on the part of the Republic. They took the first shot so to speak in first infringing upon Geonosis' sovereignty, and then invading.

Now picture Palpatine and Dooku both leading the CIS. That would make Palpatine look like two times the victim. Treat this as an Infinities story and a timeline could look something like this

-TPM- Everything is exactly as it is in the films, only Palpatine does not call for a vote of no confidence in Chancellor Valorum, instead begrudgingly agreeing to the bureaucratic procedures. Amidala finds this unacceptable and returns to Naboo to liberate her planet with the aid of the Jedi and Gungans. After the day is won, Palpatine goes before the Senate with proof that the Trade Federation had invaded and shows that Valorum's incompetence and stalling with bureaucratic procedures led to the deaths of many of his people. He condemns Valorum and the Senate and walks out.

-AOTC- In the opening crawl we learn that following the events of TPM, Palpatine has become an influential member of a de facto government of disgruntled systems and senators that were moved by his plight in AOTC. Palpatine has joined forces with the charismatic Count Dooku, a Jedi that has similarly broken away from the Republic. An assassination attempt is made on Padme's life, she thinks it is a war mongering Senator, but goes before the Senate and pleads not to raise an army, because she does not want to start a war with her old mentor. Meanwhile Obi-Wan is investigating the assassination and follows Jango to Kamino, where we see that the Trade Federation is reconciled with Palpatine (and it's fairly clear that he is a villain and he wants the Republic to make the first move, and so wants Padme out of the way). Obi-Wan sees this, but as he reports back to the Republic, he is apprehended. Obi-Wan is scheduled for execution, the Jedi Task Force shows up and is completely annihilated (there are no clones). The remaining survivors are apprehended, used as propaganda that the Republic made the first move and started the war, and then they are sent back to any angry Republic that blames them for the war. More systems and more Jedi secede and join Palpatine. Anakin begins to question what he's fighting for and contemplates whether Palpatine has the moral high ground.

-ROTS- The Battle of Coruscant plays out much differently as there are no clones, and only a small planetary force being overwhelmed as Separatist ships bear down on the Republic with a combination of droid armies and recruits (future stormtroopers). The Republic Chancellor flees along with many Jedi, refusing to surrender. Many Senators are left behind. Palpatine goes into the Senate, very joyous as though there was never any war and greets the Republic Senators there as though they are old friends (I'm thinking of Julius Caesar's reaction to Brutus in HBO's Rome). The Senators are overcome with shame and guilt. Palpatine who had nearly lost his planet due to Republic inaction and then was attacked by the Jedi on Geonosis has come back to Coruscant and has forgiven the Senate. And he begins to cement his rule by restoring order in the streets, convening a Senate hearing in which the previous Chancellor (let's make it fun and say it's Mon Mothma) is denounced and Palpatine is reinstated in the Senate as the new Chancellor. He looks very much like the victim in the war, albeit he won. Palpatine forgives the Senators and writes it off as though they too were innocent individuals duped into a war started by the Jedi. He declares the Jedi enemies of the state, and there are Senators that agree, while those that don't still reluctantly applaud because they don't really have any other choice.

Meanwhile Dooku and the other Jedi secessionists begin to rebuild on Coruscant with what will become the Inquisitors. Yoda, Obi-Wan and Anakin are some of the last remaining Jedi and move against Dooku, believing him to be the Sith Master of Darth Maul in TPM, and having no reason to suspect Palpatine is anything more than a politician that went against the Republic. Instead in the confrontation Dooku is killed, but Palpatine is revealed to be a Sith, and Anakin jumps sides, forcing Yoda and Obi-Wan to retreat and go into hiding as the Inquisitors, now under Darth Vader's control, are sent out to hunt down Mon Mothma and the few remaining Jedi, while some Imperial senators like Bail aid the Chancellor in exile and help lay the foundation for the Rebellion, while Palpatine declares himself Emperor in the face of Jedi undermining the order he has established on Coruscant in their assassination attempt on the now legitimate Republic government's leadership.

Episodes IV-VI remain exactly as they are.

Same destination, different route. And I see no reason why Palpatine could not have done this. Just because he takes one route doesn't mean that there aren't others.

 

The galaxy where the Jedi exist would be equally dangerous. There is very little difference between the factions. From what I saw I'd trust the Sith before the Jedi.

 

My give up!

 

I don't think Cushing's argument has anything to do with mine besides the fact that both involve Sith-ruled galaxies.

Me too.

 

Well this fight's really coming down to the wire. Stop chewing boys, you'll hurt yourselves.

 

I'm saying I would trust the Sith before I would trust the Jedi as depicted. The Jedi are mass murderers as well and employ the *exact tactics* they condemn the Sith for. They are hypocrites.

I'm not a man nor am I fighting. I'm allowed to disagree and I do.

 

Any examples?

 

I don't feel like CA is forcing her views on me, because they're too absurd to entertain.

 

I'm sorry you feel that way, Todd.