Full Series Official "The Clone Wars" Series Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

It's the justification both sides use and they are both wrong.

 

Yes. This.
And also that the Jedi did something morally wrong, which was known to them, for the greater good. As Jedi they rarely act like this, because their morality holds them back and fail to see the bigger picture.

 

Okay you asked me yesterday to tell you when I disagree with you. Now I disagree with you Sir. Completely. You're justifying the Jedi's own bad acts.

 

Why do you believe they are bad acts? Waging a war is bad, on both sides, but don't you think it's worse to allow Dooku and his army to invade and conquer all of Republic space?

 

One bad act does not justify another, Sir. As I have said I don't condone external warfare period. Well, in SW I wouldn't I mean. In RL only according to God's guidelines but I know such concepts are murky in SW.

 

OK. I see.
You are allowed to your views and I am allowed at mine. I, simply, do not share your views.

 

That is well.

 

Now that we settled the morality issue of the Clone Army, I wanted to post about something else.

In Season 4 (I beleive?) of the TWC, Grievous and Ventress mount an attack to Kamino, tasked with stealing the Clone DNA.
A question popped in my head regarding this episode, after finishing the clone wars:

Weren't the Kaminoans working with Dooku from the start? Since it was Darth Tyrannus who ordered the army, but also in Season 6 we see the Kaminoan Prime Minister and the chief doctor working with Dooku as well.
So, why would Dooku (and possibly Sidious) order an attack on Kamino?
We know that the Empire used Kamino after the end of the Clone Wars to produce stormtroopers, so risk destroying it all when you will eventually use it?

P.S I know that Grievous and Ventress were tasked with stealing the Clone DNA, but if they managed to overtake the troopers and the Republic, thus conquering the planet, I believe they would completely annihilate it. Maybe Sidious would step in and not allow such an action

 

It was likely to lend credence to the idea that the Clone Army was founded to be a tool of Republic to fight the Separatists threat and to diminish any lingering fears that it was too convenient for the army to be there at precisely the time it was needed. When one looks at the events of RotS, it's apparent that while Palpatine did like to stack the odds in his favor, he was also willing to put everything on the line on a gamble if it furthered his designs by leaps and bounds.

 

When did Iron_lord say that the Sith were the good guys? Or that he deserved to become a totalitarian dictator?

Unless it was implied (and excuse this post if it was), the "greater good" was a mere justification (and propaganda) for Palpatine to use, in order to excuse his expansion power and terror across the universe through the Empire.
But, such excuses were needed, as if Palpatine did not propagandize his subjects by telling them that the Empire is restoring order, maintaining peace and fighting for the "greater good", everyone would rebel all at once.
IMO, Palpatine did not care, nor he ever did care, for the greater good. He only focused on himself and nothing more.

But there are, and have been Sith that care much more than themselves.

Very very few Sith have ever cared for the "greater good", and it's even hard to classify those as Sith at all.

 

In the ROTS DVD/Blu-Ray commentary, GL says that Palpatine does believe that everything he does is in the galaxy's best interests.

 

Really? This needs some thought...

 

I always took it to mean that he believes that he knows what's best for every single individual while others have no clue what's best for themselves.

 

So he follows the common Sith notion that the strong are meant to rule and the weak are meant to serve. Yeah...for some reason this surprised me.

 

I see it more as extreme parenting.

 

The RoTS Visual Dictionary (and later compilations of the Visual Dictionaries) also say that he sees himself as not evil, and the saviour of the galaxy.

 

Exactly. He could also be compared to an extreme anti-smoker.

 

Anakin also displays traits of an extreme parent/extreme anti-smoker ("somebody should make the politicians agree")("no I promise you").

 

I think such a view is common for any dictator. That they know what is best. Maybe not for the individual (and I think there are plenty of dictators that demonstrate that they don't give a **** about the individual), but for the nation.

In the German movie "Downfall" ("Der Untergang") - the movie from which there are an obscene number of Hitler memes - it depicts Hitler as pretty much seeing himself as a hero, even though he clearly isn't. He mentions that without Germany's might, the Communists are going to overrun Europe and claims that what he did would have saved all of Europe, not just Germany. Very deluded rationalizations.

And while I don't see Palpatine having a mental breakdown and being so pathetic like that, Lucas did say that Palpatine saw himself as a good guy trying to eliminate Senate corruption and indecision by setting himself up as dictator. I don't remember Lucas' exact words, but I think he even speaks of Palpatine's goal (ending corruption, not becoming a dictator) as very commendable, but that Palpatine obviously goes to ridiculous lengths to achieve his goal.

He hires the Trade Federation to attack his own planet, gets people killed, stages a war, militarizes the Republic, ravages countless worlds, gets many more people killed, wipes out the Jedi, and ultimately constructs a super weapon to force people to accept his decisions and create order. It's an extreme case of the ends justify the means (to Palpatine), and I think in his eyes, the ends do justify the means and makes him good. While to anyone else, it's clear that the means themselves are evil and the ends aren't even something that people want. They don't want to have a super weapon pointed at them and live in fear, etc.

 

I like to think of him as an extreme parent.

You see what he did to all of Leia's friends back on Alderaan when her chauffeur didn't have her home by curfew?

 

Is anyone suprised that Rex is winning against Padme in this is madness.

 

I really do not like this competition.
People vote on likeness of character, rather on who would be more likely to win a fight between them.