Clone Wars Official "The Clone Wars" Series Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by RevantheJediMaster, Jul 15, 2005.

  1. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

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    I would have preferred Maul stay dead too. I think they could have kept Savage as Dooku's apprentice for longer than one arc. Then Savage goes his own way, proves himself to be intelligent, works with Death Watch and begins to be his own power. Sidious goes to Mandalore, confronts him one on one, smacks him down before telling him the same "I'm not going to kill you, I have other uses for you."

    I think they could have done more with the plot point that Dooku wanted to overthrow Palpatine with Savage, while Palpatine defeats Savage and uses him to his own ends.

    I liked the Nightsisters arc, but I was kind of disappointed at how quickly they dropped the matter of Dooku wanting to overthrow Palpatine. Also that Palpatine personally deals with Savage with it never coming to Palpatine's attention that Savage was Dooku's failed attempt at taking an apprentice, because Maul is back in the picture and distracts from it.

    I would be interested to know if the Maul comic will at all address this and show that Palpatine knew or didn't know of Dooku's attempted betrayal.

    We keep hearing about Sith betrayal, and even Darth Bane says to Yoda that "you must kill me, if you want my place." So alternatively, I could have accepted Maul surviving and serving as a mentor to Savage and teaching him the ways of the Sith, but I would have liked to have seen this betrayal followed through to its conclusion at least once in TCW. That perhaps Savage finds Maul in seclusion, is trained in the Dark Side in a similar situation to which Luke is trained by Yoda (where Yoda is in hiding and nobody knows of his presence there). With perhaps Maul using Savage, thinking that he's going to reveal himself to the galaxy again and be a force to be reckoned with, but only for Savage to learn everything Maul could teach him, and then kill Maul.

    Or option three. I think they could have done everything exactly as had occurred. But merely switched Maul and Savage's deaths. Where Maul keeps slapping Savage down and asserts that he is the master and Savage is the apprentice. Only for Sidious to sense Savage's Force potential, kill Maul, and then disarm Savage and tell him that he has other uses for him.

    But in any event, I think there was more potential for Savage's story after the Nightsister's arc, which was disappointingly dropped once Maul was re-introduced.
  2. Todd the Jedi Mod and Sitcom Dad of SWTV

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    Oh definitely. Lightning can be those things. Not Force Lightning though. The "lightning" part is really a misnomer, since it's not exactly lightning that these Force users create, but more a physical manifestation of their own inner energy. Force Lightning doesn't have the same heat properties as regular lighting, otherwise Luke would have quickly become a charred mess in ROTJ, and Palpatine's face would have been melted clear off in ROTS.

    No, Force Lightning is created by harnessing one's own dark inner energies; so say they do want to light a campfire with their Force Lightning- it won't work. Force Lightning is not hot like regular lightning, but probably about room temperature. Regardless, the effect of Force Lightning on its target is that of extreme agony and even physical damage if used in a high enough quantity.
  3. Paparazzo Jedi Grand Master

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    Jan 31, 2011
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    Though a little late, I have finally finished the Netflix series. Sad to think that this may be it for TCW. :(
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  4. Iron_lord Chosen One

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  5. Lord_Anzeroth Force Ghost

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    Mar 2, 2013
    star 4

    Yeah I got sad too when I finished Season 6.
    Got even more sad when I re-watched some of my favorite episodes...:(
  6. Seerow SWTV★Manager

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    In the Shadow Conspiracy Novel, Savage challenged Maul a time or two and each time Maul curb stomped him. I don't think Savage could have killed Maul if his life depended on it. I don't think Savage was really ever meant to be that complex of a character. I recognize the cool parallels to Luke, but Savage was enchanted by a witch to give him his strength and subdue his conscious into something easily controlled. Yes he is powerful and dangerous. I like how animal like his use of the force is. Savage uses it like a natural weapon, like how an animal will automatically bite and rip with teeth and claws. That was just cool.

    Savage is used as a puppet for revenge on Dooku and then as a puppet to find Maul. My guess is Maul himself was meant to be some kind of pawn in a plot against Sidious by Talzin but Maul is more invested in revenge on Obi-wan first, then he thinks he can take on his former master. In many ways Savage's storyline culminated with Maul intending to take down Sidious, except Sidious answers the challenge much earlier and more directly than Maul count on which he probably should have known better. It was probably Sidious who taught him to be a sneaky little bastard. That's one reason Sidious stomping is so satisfying.

    Poor Savage is finally released from the spell that had him captive when he dies which is what makes his death so sad. He tried so hard to protect Feral and ended up throttling him under the spell. Turned out that in the end Maul did care about him or something like that and Savage was with a good brother once more. He wasn't supposed to be someone one big hulking monster of destruction pawn. He wasn't supposed to be an apprentice like Maul was either.

    Would it have been cool if Savage had been Dooku's apprentice longer? Long enough for Palps to find out about it? Yes but wouldn't that be a plothole? TCW doesn't need to be giving Sidious excuses to kill Dooku before ROTS. I think this is why it works better that Maul was working toward building an army to take over and to kill Sidious. Really makes me think back to where Maul said "So the clone wars started without me?". Since betrayal and murdering mentors is such a thing and he learned to Xanatos Gambit from the best I bet Maul already had some outlandish plan for how he was going to do it during The Clone Wars had Obi-wan not cut him down. Err... or not so much. Who'd of thought Maul wasn't just a meathead?


    And that's fascinating about how force lightening works @Todd the Jedi. So then does the lightning just overload the nerves with stimulus and damage the nerves? Or is it kinda like being Microwaved? Stupid questions I know. Its pretty clear this is a darkside only weapon even if you use real life lightening. Lightning is often power and destruction synonymous with fire in mythology. For good reason. Just watch one of the many close of strike compilation videos on Youtube.


    It is a bumner to get to the end of season 6 and realize that's it. It works as an ending but its just unsatisfying. It really sucks to get all the teases about what was planned.
    Last edited by Seerow, Apr 6, 2014
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  7. Todd the Jedi Mod and Sitcom Dad of SWTV

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    My guess would be override the nerves initially, then damage them if enough lightning is used. Looking at Luke again- Palpatine was torturing him for a good few minutes, but afterwards he was able to walk around no problem and didn't seem to have any lingering pain. That suggests the lightning simply overloaded his senses and didn't get to the point where he'd have been permanently disfigured. Considering Palpatine's aim was murder, I'd guess he was upping the intensity of his lightning toward the end there, extremely overloading Luke's nerves to the point where they would have almost literally popped and he'd have died. So more or less cardiac arrest, but magnified 1000-fold.

    I think also Palpatine was able to control how much pain he made Luke feel, since Palps is the type to torture his prey before finishing them off for good. I mean, look at Maul. Once Palps had whupped his ass, he gave him a good dose of Force Lightning, but with the clear intention of sparing him. There is was a pure device of torture, with no aim to do severe/permanent damage.

    And again, all this supports my reasoning that this is not in fact lightning, but more akin to pure energy. We've seen a lot of different manifestations of the Force throughout TCW, like Talzin's goo or Qui-Gon's fireflies on Dagobah. Force Lightning is simply another manifestation of the Force, specifically the manifestation of dark internal energies emanating from a singular person. Think of it as a blaster's laser, but not necessarily lethal, white/blue, and moving in erratic lines rather than a straight focused bolt.
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  8. Seerow SWTV★Manager

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    Oh so the visible lightning is a magnification of the electro-signals the body sends through the nervous system and perhaps like a version of biofeedback but instead of controlling ones own body they are using feedback to trigger the victims nervous system and hijacking it to product pain signals. That's pretty cool. I remember either smoke or steam coming off of Luke so I thought maybe it was like microwaving him and boiling water molecules or something rather than simple over stimulating and overriding the nerves with pain scepters. Biofeedback might be able to raise body temp or even trigger whatever causes human combustion.
    Last edited by Seerow, Apr 6, 2014
  9. purplerain Force Ghost

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    Sep 14, 2013
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    The starwars.com Shadow Warrior trivia gallery says, "Count Dooku talks to Darth Sidious via hologram from within a secret command center. This is intended to suggest a long-standing Sith presence secreted on Naboo, most likely used by Sidious himself long ago, when Naboo centered into his plans for galactic conquest." Is this implying that the Sith had a presence on Naboo before Palpatine met Plagueis?
  10. Seerow SWTV★Manager

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    Naboo just seems filled is secret labyrinths doesn't it? There is also Dr. Vindi's secret underground lab that has been there for gosh knows how long..
  11. Watto Chosen One

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    Dec 13, 1998
    star 4
    Obi-Wan just won the Starwars.com This is Madness tournament [face_party] He beat the ever popular Vader which is an achievement, and he had to beat many others along the way such as Yoda, R2, and Han Solo. He was represented throughout the tournament as the Prequel Trilogy Obi-Wan, which I think is an interesting distinction.
  12. Seerow SWTV★Manager

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    Awesome, I'll take Obi-wan Kenobi. Better than any of the teams that actually plays the National Championship.
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  13. Lord_Anzeroth Force Ghost

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    Mar 2, 2013
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    For what I understand most people that voted for the madness competition were voting based on preference rather than combat skills of the character.
    Pre Vizla was able to defeat Mother Talzin and then Jabba defeated him!

    Nevertheless, the distinction between Ewan Obi-Wan and Alec Obi-Wan was indeed interesting, and IMO a nice move. I always believed that if we were to compare characters in regards as to who would win in combat, we should compare their skills during their peak.

    Obi-Wan was certainly much more combat-able in the prequels than in the OP and much younger.

    As for Vader, I believe that they should have replaced him with Anakin pre-Mustafaar, which the point Anakin reached his peak in power. However, some say that Vader became much more powerful after he had led some conquests and defeated some fugitive Jedi for the Empire, a theory that I can adhere to.

    What do you guys think?
  14. Seerow SWTV★Manager

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    Well if you put characters up in some kind of poll. As you pointed out people will almost always automatically pick their favorite. I can be a shameless fangirl and I would vote for Rex all the way then when he lost probably lose interest. If we were going to vote base on combat probs Talzin, Ewan Obi-wan. and Vader would win. Then I wonder who would win between young Obi-wan and Vader. Probs Vader just the same.
    Last edited by Seerow, Apr 8, 2014
  15. Lord_Anzeroth Force Ghost

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    IMO the emperor would definitely defeat both Obi-Wan and Talzin.
    Vader in the Suit would also lose, but I am not sure about who would win if Anakin before the suit was matched against Palpatine...
  16. Watto Chosen One

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    Dec 13, 1998
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    I'd say if prequel-era Obi-Wan is so popular, it would be worth their time to finish that Season 6 TCW Obi-Wan/Anakin arc which dealt with their friendship. JAT mentioned he recorded this one, and we saw an animatic for it at a C6 animation panel.

    They may also look to do an Obi-Wan spinoff film starring Ewan, post Ep 3. Personally i'd rather have a meaningful TCW arc than a one-off action/adventure popcorn flick which is what i'd bet they'd do.
  17. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

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    Mar 4, 2011
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    I definitely picked characters I liked best when I voted in that contest as opposed to who would win a fight.

    And the Anakin/Obi-Wan arc is probably the one unfinished arc I'm really interested in seeing.
  18. hlc88 Force Ghost

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    Sep 3, 2012
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    This!!! ^^

    Tweet it, tumblr it, email it, write it etc... This is the one arc I wanted to see...It should have been quite close to finishing... it really wouldn't take that much to finish it off, I don't think!
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  19. Seerow SWTV★Manager

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    I agree with this. I've been pretty vocal about how wary I am about Star Wars putting alot of cheesy popcorn flicks like Obi-wan, Maul, Yoda, and Boba Fett movies. These are always hit and miss with Marvel to me.

    Hmmm... much as I love JAT, I've seen him perform famous ROTS lines twice at SWW and will never forget their awesomeness. Wouldn't it be kind cool to have Ewan voicing the completed TCW arc as if it were a special?
    Last edited by Seerow, Apr 8, 2014
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  20. Watto Chosen One

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    Interesting to note... Yoda won ThisIsMadness last year... and then they finished TCW Yoda Arc. ;)
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  21. Seerow SWTV★Manager

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    Yeah, that's pretty cool. I think Ewan Obi-wan goes farther to remind me of TCW and the prequel era.
  22. hlc88 Force Ghost

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    Sep 3, 2012
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    But they were probably already intending to finish it :p


    I would still go for JAT... He made Obi-Wan his own...
    Last edited by hlc88, Apr 8, 2014
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  23. Legolas Skywalker Force Ghost

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    JAT was good but McGregor was a better Obi-Wan
  24. Seerow SWTV★Manager

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    They are two different takes on Obi-wan. McGregor is Prequel Obi-wan but in the Animated medium James Arnold Taylor is the voice of Obi-wan. He really nails the famous lines from ROTS. I'm sure thats on youtube somewhere.
  25. Heero_Yuy Chosen One

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