Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by RevantheJediMaster, Jul 15, 2005.
Edit: Double post
I've watched them at random thus far. I've watched most of S5, some of S4, and Clone Cadets/Rookies/ARC Troopers. All on random days when I feel like it.
Has there been any discussion on the age-appropriateness of the content of TCW? I'm 40 and I'm sensing that the quota of violence in a cartoon has gone up, or the age-limit for certain kinds of violence has gone down, since the days when I watched Star Blazers in the late 70's.
Well I'm all for more violence, but man, do they love their clone deaths on this show or what? Outside of the episode with Yoda and just the three troopers, I'm not sure there is ever a scene where clones could die where they don't die.
Strange how standards slowly mutate -- I remember on Batman:TAS, which has ideals of justice and morality baked in from the start, they weren't allowed to have any murders, at least part of the time. Batman was always investigating jewel heists. They even had to put his origin story in a spinoff movie, because they weren't allowed to show it on TV. Apparently showing such things to children was more than their jobs were worth, even with such strong good-defeats-evil themes. Now on Clone Wars, which is about full-scale combat in which both sides are controlled by the ultimate forces of evil, they just blast away. How many "kids' shows" do the parents watch knowing the main hero and his good-guy troops are going to betray and kill women and children in the next installment? It's like "The Adventures of Young Judas Iscariot" sometimes! And if there's been any great outcry, I didn't hear about it.
I appreciate the comparison of notes. I felt something was amiss when the ground assault visuals in AOTC that were right out of Saving Private Ryan, or the Vietnam scene in Forest Gump, now show up in their full adult glory in an animated cartoon that Netflix says is for ages 10-11 or 11-12, beside recommendations to actual >CHILD< shows. Throw in interrogation under torture and execution.
It's nice seeing new Jedi Force powers. Some are slightly ridiculous, but in a judicious ratio to their animated media.
I dunno, I think old-school cartoons were plenty violent. I didn't watch Star Blazers as a kid but what comes to mind is Tom and Jerry, and Road Runner.
As far as age-appropriate, my son will be 9 in a couple of weeks and he's seen every episode, has watched the show with me since I started watching in 2010. I showed the Star Wars movies to my kids when they were 5 and 3.
I don't think it's a problem unless the kid us hypersensitive.
I think the writers were afraid to depict "the young Judas Iscariot" which is why the Order 66 arc was set up so that the clones didn't really portray the Jedi, they were brainwashed.
Even though I don't think there's been an outcry, and "the young Judas Iscariot" was a better story.
I don't really think anything in TCW is inappropriate for kids. Especially in the age group of 8-12 (any time people keep referring to "small kids," I'm thinking of kids that watch Dora the Explorer that are like 3-5, who may or may not be too young).
I know there's that video of "lol, TCW is (sarcastically) a kid's show!" but it's not like TPM didn't have politics and bisections as well, and I would definitely consider that film to blatantly cater to a younger audience than the rest of the films, with fart/poop jokes, and Jar Jar/young Anakin shenanigans. I just don't know that Lucas knew how to really pick a tone and stick with it, and instead can alienate the older audience with fart jokes and Jar Jar, but then has politics that go over little kids' heads.
I would have been 11-12 when TPM came out, and I sure as hell couldn't follow the politics at all. In fact everything on Coruscant was a huge bore and was almost like one long intermission when I finally caught the movie on home release, because it was the action sequences that carried that movie for me, not discussions on the taxation of trade routes and corrupt bureaucrats. I couldn't follow that stuff until I got older, but my tolerance of Anakin and Jar Jar also dropped at the same time.
I think TCW at best is like TPM in suffering from multiple personality disorder, but nothing in those films did I feel was inappropriate for kids. Six years before TPM, I would have been about 5-6 years old, would have seen Jurassic Park in theaters with my parents, and that would have been a perfectly fine movie for me that had become my favorite movie then and remains my favorite movie, despite discussions of a kid being disemboweled, a lawyer being "eaten" (does not actually get eaten, "I think this was Genarro"; "I think this was too"); kids being attacked in an eerie storm with the threat of being eaten/crushed by a Tyrannosaurus; and the game warden being pounced upon by a velociraptor and being killed as he shrieks in pain/terror.
So, when it comes to Satine being killed in a very non-graphic way, or Savage beheading a bunch of Falleen (the shot of the headless bodies actually having been cut anyway), I don't see it as being inappropriate for kids in the 8-12 year age group, who I imagine were more the target audience as opposed to those watching Sesame Street and Blue's Clues.
Dammit. I'm out of edit time and I'm blaming my iPad's autocorrect, but "portray" is supposed to be "betray" in my last post.
Anyway...FWIW, I was 27 when TPM came out and the only real aspect of the politics that I could follow was "Politicians are bureaucratic little ****s." And yeah, nobody likes taxes.
I was more interested in the interactions between Qui-Gon and Shmi, Qui-Gon and Anakin, and Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan (and at the time I thought Obi-Wan was an ass). I also enjoyed the Anakin and Padme interactions.
My brother was 20 at the time and Could. Not. Stand. little Anakin, whereas I wanted to mother him.
I was between 5 and 12 when the OT came out, and even as a hypersensitive kid, I was fine with Obi-Wan chopping arms off, Leia watching her planet blowing up, the sound of Captain Antilles' windpipe being crushed, and Han being shoved onto an electrocution board.
As I always say when these conversations come up, I think we underestimate kids.
"windpipe being crushed, and Han being shoved onto an electrocution board."
I concede these points. These are explicit, graphic and aural. So in theory I cannot stand too high on a high horse about the old trilogy being sanitized. It had grit, I concede, which lends realism. And these did not provoke / pre-dated the PG13 rating for Temple of Doom.
The cave scene in Raiders scared me as a kid.
As far as ToD...it should be required viewing for every kid. The scenes with Willie Scott should be shown with an opening of, "Girls, don't embarrass your entire gender by behaving that way."
What about old slapstick cartoon violence like Tom and Jerry and Looney Tunes? That's not very different from stuff I grew up on like old SpongeBob and Ed, Edd, & Eddy (Both 10 years ago). It seems what the "supply" of cartoons is today (at least from what I've seen on Cartoon Network specifically) is strange dark comedy. It may not have anything to do with what can be done but what the demand is. This may or may not be so
How about Animorphs? Jake getting the back of his head blown off by a musket in the 3rd Megamorphs book.
That was written for kids. And later on when Ax decapitates a Hessian soldier. That was par for the course with Animorphs. I liked the way Animorphs portrays war as being hell to kids which is exactly one of the things I liked about TCW. It didn't sugar coat things. Clones died brutally and sometimes good people died brutally because they were caught up in a big scheme.
Man, the Animorphs books were really brutal. A lot of the time you had people and aliens getting vaporized, beheaded, eyes gauged out and what have you. Worst part about it was that the enemies who had such carnage inflicted upon them were technically innocent.
I agree. TCW did a great job of "Saving Private Ryaning" the most pivotal time in the Galaxy's history. It was brutally dark which is what happens in war times. Plus the time slot it came on showed that. It wasn't a 5 pm show that you would watch with the family it was a kind of "welp hope you're ready for this". It being on CN was the only reason why I think it survived. Nick used to have Invader Zim which was dark as well but Nick also moved away from the dark shows. No more Afraid of the Dark etc. CN has stayed consistent with it's programming over the years which I liked. Hell Adult Swim came on right after TCW was done airing an episode. There was a reason they put it in the timeslot. Would I let my kids watch it? Sure if they were 8+. TV shows have changed over the years, specifically cartoons with all the restrictions presented to them. Disney is the only one of the big three that has gotten all hugs and kisses since the 90s.
I think Shaak Ti's death decided in TCW precognition scenes (same with deleted scene) ;
Surprised that Anakin got the drop on her(and no its not Grievious killing her, that deleted scene was considered non-canon, and she showed up later in ROTS in a hologram).
Just watched the final episode of the series. Just wow. Even if most of it was an illusion the episode was still very thought provoking and the part with Yoda saving Anakin really shows Yoda's character and compassion for others. I also liked the Darth Bane scene where Yoda is just like "you're not real so go away"(reminds me that I need to get the Bane Trilogy as well). All in all a great final episode for the series and the music at the end that carried through to the credits just had me thinking I can't believe the series is over. I hope more episodes are made someday however unlikely it is right now. The show started when I was in middle school and I've watched every episode and saw the movie in the cinema. It will always have a special place in my heart.
Just finished the episode where Anakin uses aggressive interrogation of the Geonossian general, the Darth Vader / Empire theme plays, and the closing shot is a Venator? class ship. This is a nice venue because it offers a lot of time domain data points, so you can see the slippery slope starting to emerge. I was always least impressed with the huthuthut to the Dark Side that Christensen was expected to accomplish in ROTS. The data points in TCW you could almost plot on a graph.
More signs begin to appear later in the show. Especially in Season 5, Anakin reminds more and more of Vader
I just finished the Ryloth series. I applaud the three part arc for its structure. In part 1 Anakin/Ahsoka break through the blockade so that in part 2 Obi-wan could destroy the ground canons so that in part 3 Mace could take the capitol city.
With that said, I can tell the writers wanted to bring heart to this arc, especially in part 2 when the Clones find the Ryloth girl. While it does bring a little heart to the surface, it feels clumsy. Speaking of clumsy, in part 1 Anakin lets Ahsoka takes the reigns without really discussing a plan of action. I know what he was trying to do - be a good teacher - but this is war and you can't be sloppy. The smallest mistake and you're done. And lastly, in part 3, I didn't really understand the whole Wat Tambor being abandoned there, maybe that gets revisited later (unfortunately, I don't remember.)
Overall, it feels that structure was favored over ambition in this arc and it could have been more if it wanted to be, but the writers played it safe. It is a season 1 arc, so that makes sense to me as the writing and episodes begin to feel more ambitious as the series progresses.
I actually liked that. It showed the true nature of war and how clones are not robots like the CIS army. Also, it mirrored perfectly modern warfare where people's homes and villages get bombed from whichever side in a war that they did not even want to take part in.
On top of that, the little Twilek girl was just too cute!
That episode, Innocents Of Ryloth, is one of the very best early episodes in my opinion.
I think part of the reason Obi-Wan may have failed there is because he had them himself - Qui-Gon and Satine. And Qui-Gon probably had them as well seeing as how he annoyed the Council quite a bit. Man all this stuff with Anakin seems to always come back to Qui-Gon. Liam Neeson FTW
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Just started this series. I'm VERY surprised at how good it is. I saw the film in theaters and... Yeah. So far I've liked the show better than the prequels!
There have been quite a few moments watching this show where I thought, "Woah, that was better than it needed to be."