Full Series Official "The Clone Wars" Series Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

lol

 

This is so true I care leaps and bounds for things that are Canon to things that are not.

 

Ooh, I forgot about Shadows of Mindor. That was a good one. I didn't much care for the prequel era EU, though. I also thought that the Hand of Thrawn duology was better than the original Thrawn trilogy, which I don't care for much these days.

 

Probably because it's about to be ripped to shreds.

 

I have far less interest in the new Canon slate of novels, comics, etc. coming out than I did in the original Expanded Universe, but that's mainly because I don't really see what the new slate of Canon stuff can truly add to the pantheon of SW lore that hasn't already been addressed. I also feel like anything we didn't get to find out about relative to unfinished Clone Wars story arcs would be better served by being able to be revealed through the course of Rebels rather than through mediums that aren't likely to get the same kind of exposure that the visual mediums of television and film will.

If you weren't going to exclusively use Rebels to tell unfinished CW stuff, I'd rather see every unfinished arc released as Story Reels than the kind of piece-meal cross-medium stuff that we're seeing.

 

That's because there has been like 40 years the EU has been around.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Netcaster

 

Looks like the Netcasters were mixed with the Kinrath to make these new creatures then.

 

I've been rewatching the series and am now on The Lost Missions. Am I the only one that thinks season 5 looked far better than season 6? Not that it's bad perse, but 5 just has a more polished, finished feel. More consistent.

 

I just started rewatching and on season 2 episode 10: The Deserter. And I think seasons 5 and 6 both look great.

 

Anybody notice how weird the animation is in downfall of a droid?In the briefing room I hink they didnt finish texturing characters or something.

 

I don't have the episode to hand, but is this the episode where Anakin fights Grievous in the asteroid field whilst Ahsoka and some clones direct them from a war room? Because if so I definitely recall noticing an unpolished quality to Ahsoka and the clones in their scene - to the point where I assumed it was probably one of the very first, if not the first, episode they ever actually produced.

 

yep.

 

I think that was the first episode that was produced. It definitely feels like it was meant to be the pilot episode.

 

That was the very first arc produced, even before the Movie.

 

Now that I think about it Yeah they did say that on the dvd.And it explains the reason why the narrator sounds different.(Maybe its the same guy but something is different)

 

On a few episodes produced early, the music that plays during the opening narration is different to A Galaxy Divided, used exclusively once the Movie was produced. The alternate version is slower and has never been released.

 

Would also explain the rather jarring music that plays during the asteroid battle, always sticks out in repeat viewings as very unlike the rest of the soundtrack to the series.

Edit:

Here we go, kicks in at about two and a half minutes:

 

TK--421 I thought I was the only one who thought that!

 

As I continue to make my way through The Clone Wars for what is essentially the first time (I had started watching some of the episodes a few years ago, but never got very far), I decided to post some Season Reviews of the show. Since I'm going in Chronological Order, I'll be talking about certain episodes as if they had aired as part of the season to which they're chronologically matched as opposed to as part of the season wherein they were actually aired. I'm also going to be treating the Clone Wars movie as an official part of the first season as well. I'm also going to be posting my reviews for the first 5 seasons in two parts, with each part covering 11 episodes.

With all of the preamble out of the way, let's get to the reviews.

JangoFett21's Clone Wars Season Reviews​

Season 1 (Part 1)

1x01 - Cat and Mouse:
Because it wasn't produced until the second season of the series, Cat and Mouse isn't quite as seamless an introduction to the series as it might've been had it been actually produced with the intention of kicking things off, but what would normally be an issue as far as lack of explanation is concerned actually becomes one of the episode's assets given that it forms part of a Saga where exposition and backstory have never been all that integral to the storytelling process. Everything that we're unsure or clueless about regarding the state of the galaxy and our major characters is explained over the course of the story, which does a nice job of beginning to juxtapose the immature, cocky, and self-assure Anakin we meet in Attack of the Clones with the more mature, yet still self-assure Anakin we see in Revenge of the Sith.

Another of the episode's strengths, which ties back into the way that it begins to juxtapose AotC Anakin with RotS Anakin, is that it gives us a really compelling villain in Admiral Trench, somebody who can match Anakin in both self-assurance and strategic, on-the-fly thinking, but whom Anakin is ultimately able to outwit and defeat. It's a nice way of highlighting who Anakin is at this stage in his character development, particularly since he never really comes up against anybody else who quite 'mirrors' him the way that Trench does.

The only thing that I don't think quite works about the episode is the way that the stealth ship gets introduced. Since we haven't been given any previous indication that cloaking technology does actually exist in the Star Wars universe beyond what is essentially a throwaway line in The Empire Strikes Back, the ship comes off as a bit of a deus ex machina/macguffin that exists solely for plot purposes, which is something that Star Wars hasn't really had as part of its narrative structure either before or since.

1x02 - The Hidden Enemy:
I just listened to the The Clone Wars Strike Back podcast, Episode 1, which covered Cat and Mouse, The Hidden Enemy, and the movie, and have to say that while I agreed with most of the podcasters' thoughts on the 3 stories, the one thing I didn't agree with them on is the 'narrative flow' of The Hidden Enemy in terms of its chronological placement. All 3 of the hosts thought that the episode was a bit out-of-place narratively as far as its subplot of the Clone traitor Slick was concerned, but I think having that particular bit of story come out at a point where we haven't yet gotten to truly understand and appreciate/see just how diverse the Clone Troopers actually are actually makes everything that follows as it concerns them work better.

I also like the way that the Clone traitor plot is juxtaposed with Anakin and Obi-Wan's adventure into Separatist territory and their confrontation with Ventress, particularly after we learn that she's working directly with Slick and seemingly directing both his actions and influencing his thoughts and attitude. That revelation ultimately ends up giving the Clone traitor plot even more weight than it already had, especially since it helps establish Ventress as quite a formidable adversary. I do wish that she would've featured in Cat and Mouse so that there was a bit more of a seamless transition between the events of that episode and the events of this one (which is really the episode's only weak spot, IMO), but that's really neither here nor there. What is most interesting to me about the Ventress parts of the episode is that it establishes a history between Obi-Wan and Ventress that never really gets explored or explained, but that nevertheless enriches both characters and makes the subsequent times when they come into direct conflict with one another mean more than they would if there was no particular history between them.

1x03 - The Clone Wars (Theatrical Release):
This is one of two theatrically-released Star Wars movies that I never saw in theaters (the other being Return of the Jedi when it was re-released in 1997), so my perception of it may be skewed by the fact that I never got to experience people's initial reactions to it firsthand. I will admit that the first time I heard about it I was quite skeptical, particularly as it related to the idea of giving Anakin a Padawan, but, having now watched it twice (once a couple years ago when I started my first, unfinished foray into the series, and once as part of this new watch-through), I have to say that it's quite an excellent story in its own right, although I do kind of wish it had had a more 'serial' feel to it, with each part having had a clearly delineated beginning, end, and moral to it than having been edited together into a single seamless whole, which I don't think quite works for what it's meant to do, which is to introduce us to the style and narrative approach of the series.

As far as its individual narrative is concerned, I really like the way that Ahsoka gets introduced, which is pure George Lucas storytelling through and through. It's also just pure fun to see the way that Anakin's immature, cocky, and self-assured personality clashes with her more naive and inexperienced one while also drawing out more of her own self-assuredness just because of the fact that she has to act more self-assured in order to keep up with him. I also love that they're giving each other nicknames practically within minutes of meeting one another, as it adds some depth upon which the rest of their relationship can gradually build and helps establish both of their personalities fairly quickly but without giving everything about the future development of their relationship away.

I also really enjoyed the way that the film introduces us to Ziro the Hutt and cuts against the often-too-seen assumption amongst the SW fandom that one single member of a given species represents the totality of said species. The fact that Ziro is so drastically different from Jabba really helps cement him as an interesting character and challenging adversary for our characters. His introduction also provides us with an opportunity to see Padme in action for the first time in the series, setting up subsequent adventures for her as well as showing us that returning to her daily duties as a Senator after the chaotic events of Attack of the Clones hasn't dampened her spunk and self-reliance in the least, which is fun if you're a fan of the character like I am.

The only part of the narrative that doesn't quite work for me is Obi-Wan's bit where he goes to the Separatist camp to seemingly negotiate a full surrender. The entire sequence came off a bit too goofy and forced, especially for a character like Obi-Wan, and is really the only time in the entire series that we see him behave out-of-character and where the childish Saturday Morning Cartoon humor that permeates the entire show has a detrimental effect on its storytelling.

1x04 - Clone Cadets:
After starting out with what is essentially one big long 7-part story, Clone Cadets is really the first opportunity that the series has to do something that is basically standalone, but that will ultimately end up having connections to subsequent stories as well, which is a nice change of pace and a way to further help establish the narrative approach for the series.

Getting to see the inner workings of the Clone training process in a way that Attack of the Clones could never have shown us helps to humanize the Clones and show us that, despite what Lama Su tells Obi-Wan, they're not quite entirely uniform in personality and autonomy, and helps build on the seeds of that idea that were planted in The Hidden Enemy and that will be further developed in subsequent stories. I do wish we'd had more of a sense of who the two bounty hunters were and why they'd been tasked to help oversee the Clones' training, especially since that role is a fairly prominent part of the episode's narrative, but it is what it is.

I really liked the establishment of Domino Squad's individual personality traits and quirks and how they influenced the nicknames that ended up being assigned to them by one another, especially since, in the end, it is those individual quirks and traits that end up being the thing that allows them to pull together and accomplish their goal of being formally approved for field duty. I also liked that the episode gives us an opportunity to truly get to know the group before pretty much all of their number is seemingly eliminated in what is essentially their first major field engagement, making the things that they experience during said field engagement mean more than they might've otherwise.

1x05 - Supply Lines:
I've always been an unapologetic fan of the character of Jar Jar Binks, and the impression (true or not) that his role was downgraded in Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith because a vocal minority of fans had a problem with him is something that's always bothered me, making me very happy to see him included in several prominent Clone Wars stories, beginning with this one. It also doesn't hurt that his prominent inclusion in the episode simultaneously gives us an opportunity to see more of the Trade Federation and Bail Organa and get an in-depth glimpse into the culture and society of two alien races - the Toydarians and the Twi'leks - in a way that the live-action films never could given their narrative structure and purpose.

This episode is another case where the hosts of The Clone Wars Strike Back podcast had some trouble with its chronological narrative flow (in relation to the episode that immediately follows it, Ambush), and another case where I disagree with them on that score, primarily because I see the arc of this episode and Ambush in a different light than they did. The episode may have its focus split between the plotline on Ryloth (which serves as setup for the episodes Storm on Ryloth, Innocents of Ryloth, and Liberty on Ryloth) and the plotline on Toydaria involving Jar Jar, Bail Organa, and Trade Federation senator Lott Dodd, but it is really the latter storyline that I feel is the true 'heart' of the narrative and that I feel becomes the 'glue' that holds both this episode and Ambush together as two parts of a single narrative arc (something that I'll get to a bit more-in-depth a little later).

If there's one issue I have with the episode, it's that there seems to be a bit of a disconnect in terms of the characterization of Cham Syndulla relative to his chronologically subsequent appearances and behavior in the Ryloth Trilogy later on in the season, but, again, it is what it is and isn't that big of a deal.

1x06 - Ambush:
The hosts of the The Clone Wars Strike Back podcast spent most of their discussion about the episode focused on how bad-**** it makes Yoda look and how it offers a return to the personality traits and characterization that the character exhibited when we were first introduced to him in The Empire Strikes Back, but I couldn't help but feel, as I listened to what they were saying, that, in focusing on those aspects of the storyline, they missed the true narrative purpose of it and the reasons that it's chronologically placed where it is.

For me, the thing that holds the episode together narratively - and allows the writers to just have some fun with Yoda being all bad-**** - is that it's a direct continuation of the narrative threads that were set up in Supply Lines during the plotline involving Bail Organa and Jar Jar's mission to Toydaria. Without that particular piece of the narrative puzzle, it becomes easy to just focus on the superficial action-y elements of the story involving Ventress' challenge to Yoda, which I think misses the ultimate point of the entire exercise. The story of this episode, IMO, really isn't about Yoda being all awesome and outhinking Ventress and her droid army whilst bonding with 3 Clone Troopers and offering them some sage advice, but about how calmness of mind and oneness of spirit can lead directly to understanding and cooperation (which is also a big underlying theme, at least for me, of the Jar Jar/Bail storyline in Supply Lines), and it's that deeper narrative message that makes it stand out for me as one of the highlights of Season 1 far moreso than what it offers us in terms of Yoda's characterization and portrayal.

1x07 - Rising Malevolence:
My perception of and thoughts on not only this episode individually but its narrative arc as a whole may differ from others' because it's directly influenced by the fact that I saw it and its narrative brother episodes for the first time in their proper chronological placement as the 7th, 8th, and 9th episodes of the season as opposed to as the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th. Their later placement in the season ultimately ends up giving them more narrative 'weight', IMO, and in turn influences the tone and direction of that narrative.

This episode is tasked with doing some very important things narratively, and doing them in a very short span of time. The first - and most important of these things - is to offer us our first Chronologically Canonical glimpse of General Grievous and establish his characterization, personality traits, and narrative role in the overall Star Wars Saga. The second thing that the episode is tasked with doing narratively is establishing the very real danger of Grievous' "mystery weapon" and giving us - as an audience - a reason to care about what it can do, which ties in with the third thing it has to do narratively, which is to flesh out Plo Koon and make us as an audience care about him as a character so that we in turn care about Grievous destroying his fleet of ships using the Malevolence and coming after him, his Clone squad, and the rest of the survivors of his fleet with his (Grievous) squad of "Pod Hunters".

The episode has to also narratively expand on the relationship between Anakin and Ahsoka, not just as partners, but as Master and Padawan, and do so in a way that offers something different than what we saw during the events of the Clone Wars movie, which is chronologically the last time we saw them, and set up Anakin and Grievous as adversaries without actually having the two of them physically interact. It also has to function both as a self-contained story in its own right as well as the first part in a bigger narrative arc.

Because the episode has to juggle so many narrative balls all at once, you might expect it to collapse under the strain, but it doesn't. Instead, it not only very deftly handles all of its various narrative requirements, but does so in some rather surprising ways.

My absolutely favorite element from the episode is the seeming rift that is established between Anakin and Ahsoka over Ahsoka speaking out of turn during the holo-conference between him, Yoda, Mace, and Obi-Wan, and the way that said rift ultimately ends up being repaired. It's a nice touch to see Anakin seemingly frustrated and angry over Ahsoka behaving exactly as he has in the past relative to the Jedi Council and the overall tenets of the Jedi Order itself, only to turn around and do exactly what Ahsoka wanted to do in a way that, as in Cat and Mouse, kills 'two birds with one stone' because it not only deepens the bond between him and Ahsoka as partners and as Master and Padawan, but also demonstrates for really the first time that Yoda and Obi-Wan's plan to teach Anakin some restraint by giving him a Padawan may both simultaneously work as well as backfire since he and Ahsoka have far more in common than I think either of them (Yoda and Obi-Wan) thought they might.

1x08 - Shadow of Malevolence:
This episode is a very nice continuation of the arc started in Rising Malevolence, but in terms of its individual narrative depth, it lacks something that both Rising Malevolence and its subsequent brother episode, Destroy Malevolence, lack, which is an opportunity to delve into the emotions and minds of the characters. It's much more of an "action set-piece" episode, and while there's nothing really wrong with that, it does lose some of the narrative weight it could've had if it were to have included some more introspective moments.

I do like that it gives us an opportunity to see Anakin in action as a fighter pilot for what is really the first time since the end of The Phantom Menace, and our first real opportunity to truly see his ship-to-ship fighting skills (since neither his heroics during the Battle of Naboo or the speeder chase that he and Obi-Wan go on in Attack of the Clones truly offered any opportunity to showcase his skills in that arena). I also like that things predictably don't go exactly according to plan, since it helps establish that he still has a lot of room for improvement as far as his strategizing and command decision-making is concerned.

1x09 - Destroy Malevolence:
This is my favorite episode of the Malevolence Trilogy, and the reasons it's my favorite have to do with the ways in which it, like Rising Malevolence, juxtaposes frenetic action with introspective and character-building moments. I'm particularly enamored of this episode because it gives the writers their first real opportunity to remind the audience that Anakin and Padme are married, but do so in a way that doesn't really raise any red flags as far as the people around them are concerned. It also allows us a chance to see Grievous engage in lightsaber combat for the first Chronologically Canonical time by pitting him against Obi-Wan, thereby casting their later interactions in Revenge of the Sith in a whole new and interesting light.

The episode also lets the writers just have some flat-out fun and do a nice callback to the droid foundry sequence in Attack of the Clones, especially since there are several beats during the rail sequence that are almost virtually identical, visually, to the moments of frenetic action that play out during the earlier sequence.

I also like that the episode helps establish that, in spite of being able to fight with four lightsabers, Grievous is still very much a coward, which is, for me, the thing that makes his character work and that sets him apart from other adversaries such as Maul, Ventress, Dooku, and Sidious.

1x10 - Rookies
This is an episode that, IMO, benefits greatly from being placed chronologically later than it was originally because it allows us, as an audience, to have already been introduced to its major protagonists in several other stories. This is particularly true when it comes to Domino Squad, as the fact that we've already met them in Clone Cadets makes the things that happen to them during the course of the episode have more narrative weight.

I didn't mention this in my review of The Hidden Enemy, but I liked seeing Cody and Rex work together in that episode, and liked that their partnership is continued here. I also like that the episode establishes that, in spite of their difference in rank, they're not really superior (Cody) and subordinate (Rex). The episode also gives us our first real chance to delve into Rex's character a bit in the way that he interacts with Domino Squad, especially when he notes that they're "Shinies" (although Wookieepedia describes the term as derogatory, I didn't get the feeling that Rex was using it in that context at all, and was using it as more of an observational adjective) and then later says that they're "not Shinies anymore" (which, BTW, is one of my favorite lines from the show so far, as there's just something about the way the line is delivered that makes it awesome).

The introduction of the Commando Droids here (their appearance in Clone Cadets doesn't really count because they're not recognizable as such) is pretty neat as well, and I love their design. I also like that it takes a bit more to take them down than your typical Battle Droid or Super Battle Droid.

1x11 - Downfall of a Droid:
Even though it wasn't aired directly following Destroy Malevolence, and even though it deals with an entirely different set of circumstances, this episode feels very much like a continuation of the Malevolence Trilogy, particularly in terms of the way it continues to establish and flesh out Grievous' characterization. It's also a nice continuation of the development of the relationship between Anakin and Ahsoka, and a nice way to establish that Anakin's relationship with R2-D2 is yet another thing that sets him apart from your typical Jedi (there's a small sense of this in Attack of the Clones, but it really gets hammered home here).

The episode starts off with a nice action set-piece that builds on Anakin's fighter-pilot skills from what we got to see in Shadow of Malevolence, although I do wish there'd been some indicator of continuity between that episode and this one as far as his fighter squadron is concerned, since it didn't make a whole lot of sense that he'd have an entirely new fighter squadron, Gold Squadron, under his command when his previous one, Shadow Squadron, hadn't been entirely wiped out. Having him in charge of a new fighter squadron did allow the writers an opportunity to give Ahsoka a clever line later on in the episode when introducing his replacement droid, R3, and give him the nickname of "Goldie", so it ends up balancing out in the end, but it would've been nice if the episode would've mentioned whether or not some of Shadow Squadron had been incorporated into the new Gold Squadron.

I really liked the sequence aboard Gha Nachkt's freighter with Anakin and Ahsoka having to think on their feet to fight off the IG assassin droids, as it gave us another chance to see the kind of laid-back interplay between them that we hadn't really seen since the movie, and to showcase how Ahsoka, like Obi-Wan and others, doesn't quite understand the bond that's developed between him and R2 (even though she'd previously given him a nickname, "Artooey", there's not really the same kind of affection in their relationship as there is in the relationship between him and Anakin).

The one area where I think the episode doesn't quite succeed is that it doesn't make it explicit that R3's incompetence isn't actually incompetence, which I think it needed to do in order to set up the events of the following episode, Duel of the Droids, but that's my own real complaint about it.

***

I'll be back later with the second half of my Season 1 review, in which I'll cover Duel of the Droids through Mystery of the Thousand Moons. In the meantime, I'd like people to offer their thoughts on both my observations as well as their own impressions of the episodes I've covered.

 

I very much enjoyed reading your review, Jango_Fett21. Watching the show in chronological order is a very rewarding experience, IMO, do I can't wait to hear your thoughts on the later seasons.

 

They were produced concurrently.
1.01 Castle of Deception
1.02 Downfall of a Droid
1.03 Castle of Doom
1.04 Castle of Salvation
1.05 Bombad Jedi
1.06 Duel of the Droids

 

The music's more to do with the tone of the episode than the early production. The arc is about droids, R2, R3, Grievous, the run-down assassins, etc., So a techno beat fits the feel of the arc. It's like during Padawan Lost, where the music is largely percussion based, to reinforce the tribal nature of the Trandoshans.

 

The score in that episode was probably the worst and most disappointing one the series ever had - not because it indulges in some occasional techno-sounding music, which is appropriate for a droid-centered arc, but because it shamelessly rips off Wojciech Kilar's score for Bram Stoker's Dracula. Just watch the whole sequence leading up to the battle, and then listen to the Dracula score, and tell me it doesn't match.