Clone Wars Official "The Clone Wars" Series Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by RevantheJediMaster, Jul 15, 2005.

  1. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    Probably, unless even in person Obi-Wan is incapable of seeing under Sidious' inexplicably impenetrable hood-shadow. Plus, Yoda seems convinced that Obi-Wan has no chance against Sidious in ROTS - though it seems like if Obi-Wan had fought him before, that he would know better than Yoda. I don't know how they would explain Sidious not killing Obi-Wan, unless it was a very brief exchange of just a couple parries until one side or the other has to make their escape.
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  2. Valairy Scot Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    @TaradosGon: you make some very good points there. I don't "match" you point for point, but in spirit, I agree.

    =D=
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  3. mattman8907 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 17, 2012
    star 3
    obi-wan needs to get one last duel with Maul and let them just have a no hold barred fight. i'm talking like when Obi-Wan went hand to hand with Grievous in ROTS.
    Last edited by mattman8907, Dec 4, 2012
  4. mattman8907 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 17, 2012
    star 3
    I wanna say yes but at the time of this episode they don't know that Sidious and Palpatine are one in the same.
  5. Legolas Skywalker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 6
    unless you take the hood off :p
  6. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    We agree on something.

    Of course I think the "Chosen One prophecy" is a load of Hutt **** anyway. Nobody is "chosen" to do anything, for the most part, people are given options in life and make their own decisions. Saying that Anakin was "destined" to either turn to the Dark Side or return to the Light Side is ridiculous, when he did both on his own volition through no one's "will" other than his own.

    I prefer @GGrievous' term for the above-mentioned arc: Craptis.
  7. Seerow SWTV★Manager

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    Jun 7, 2011
    star 6
    On the surface sending Obi-wan alone was a stupid idiot. I remember knocking this when grading the episode. However maybe Yoda saw more than just Ventress being there to help him. Ventress has morphed into a chaotic good character in TCW. Yoda may have sensed that this meeting had to happen because Ventress will come to the rescue in a more important way in the future has her character continues to experience some of the most fantastic growth of any in the series. Ventress has pretty much become an OC. She may in fact turn out to be a good guy in her role in the upcoming Jedi Temple raid or even the Fugitive Ahsoka arc. I've always thought a Jedi's visions could be much more profound than just seeing whats in 'the now' depending on what is revealed to them through the force. If clones had gone with Obi-wan Ventress might have decided not to help and what happened next could be chalked up to Chaos Theory, somebody call Ian Malcom.

    Cool ST story, Bro. =b

    However Obi-wan does not have any family like that. His problem is Maul is killing innocent people and was doing it just to get to him. Doesn't get more personal than that. Innocent people, man. What we got here in this Maul arc is an example of the 'Hero's Journey'. Its a story that has been brewing since "The Mandalorian Plot". Obi-wan has to over come his pain and adversity, set asside his personal struggles to save the day. Isn't the "Hero's Journey' a major theme in the OT?

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    Adi Gallia's death is part of the setup for the Maul arc. Remember this is the same chick who saved his ass in "Grievous Intrigue"? Ok, that's one not innocent, but seriously... How could Obi-wan have known Savage would kill someone on the Jedi Council just like that? The council was treating the doom brothers like annoying little ants. What if he had taken Plo Koon? Hell what if Anakin were killed? Could have been anybody. Maul and Vizsla are probably getting in bed with each other and taking over Mandalore whether or not its Obi-wan coming to save the day. It makes sense sending someone experienced in going undercover and someone familiar with Mandalore to try and save the day. I doubt the council has any idea what went on with Obi-wan and Satine. Any knowledge is dead and gone the Qui-gon. Yoda is the only one slightly aware there is anything personal going on.


    Jedi are so boring when they are Jedi like. They are more interesting when they do something not Jedi like, IMO. Obi-wan is still an imperfect human being. Characters are better fleshed out by there imperfections not there perfections. It can alot to realize when your to frustrated or emotionally invested in something to decide to step back. Maybe its Obi-wan's turn to face some keep seeded regrets like not leaving the Jedi Order for Satine or not saving anybody, not saving his former master. Maybe its his turn to face some of his very own demon buried in his heart. Everybody had them. I don't think Anakin would be a very good character to hold anybody back. If Obi-wan gets pissed off or hurt, Anakin gets twice as pissed off and smashes. That's not going to help reform him into a great Jedi (lol) or help him look like the Chosen One I think Obi-wan imagines.

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    Personally I hope Obi-wan gets a final chance to face Maul. Ends up getting taunted like in the Slave arc when he is going to kill the Slaver. And the screen cuts to black leaving us to wonder if Obi-wan unjedi like killed him or left Maul alive, alteast for another season. I'm not counting on it. Sids, man,


    What is the facination with Dooku and Obi-wa teaming up? =b
    Last edited by Seerow, Dec 5, 2012
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  8. mattman8907 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 17, 2012
    star 3
    I know the Maul arc is going to be one of the last ones of the season but is it going to take the place of the season finale or will it early on when the show comes back from winter break?
  9. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    QFT!
  10. Seerow SWTV★Manager

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    Jun 7, 2011
    star 6
    The Maul is is probably going to be 2nd to last.
  11. hlc88 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4
    Though if you go according to this website: http://tvlistings.zap2it.com/tvlist... Clone Wars&method=getEpisodesForShow&desc=on it seems to indicate that the Maul arc is up next after the Droid arc, though the only reliable site is CN when they update their schedule for these weeks, and that won't be until next year, will we know for sure what episodes truly are coming next.
  12. Cary_the_Brave Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 5, 2012
    star 3
    Nah, just a little bit.
  13. Dan_Grievous_Tikkes_Fan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4
    Enough to break the mood in ROTS.
  14. mattman8907 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 17, 2012
    star 3
    yeah and it shows the clovis arc was supposed to air before the young jedi arc but that didn't happen.
    Last edited by mattman8907, Dec 4, 2012
  15. mattman8907 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 17, 2012
    star 3
    you gotta wonder if they are just trying to build up hype.
    Last edited by mattman8907, Dec 4, 2012
  16. AkashKedavra_93 Emperor of the Seven Realms and the First Dragons

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    They've already done that, the schedule wack isn't helping them really
  17. Seerow SWTV★Manager

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    star 6
    If they hype the Maul arc up anymore, I'm sure they'll be breaking some sort of record. Put it on already!
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  18. Valairy Scot Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    @Seerow: =D==D=. I ^:)^ bow before your insightful post. That was brilliant.
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  19. InterestingLurker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 15, 2011
    star 4
    Sometimes I wish Tarkas were still here. Things are just boring without him.
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  20. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

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    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
  21. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    Show Spoiler
    Qui-Gon was Obi-Wan's family, as are the Jedi. Maybe not biologically, but they are all he's got. Obi-Wan goes as far as to call Anakin a brother. I would think that he of all people is someone Obi-Wan was lean on... when he's not strong... A friend, if you will... To help him carry on...

    I don't understand why you point out Obi-Wan having to set aside his personal struggles when that is exactly what I'm advocating, and exactly what he wouldn't be doing if he keeps running off to fight Maul and carry that burden alone. One of the major themes in Star Wars is also that of team work. Here Obi-Wan is feeling responsible for something that is not his fault and he's carrying a burden that is not his to carry. Obi-Wan is allowed to be flawed, but failure to overcome that flaw is not an appropriate end game for the character we know Obi-Wan is to be in ROTS. He's not some broken individual. He's got his crap together and is an upstanding, albeit imperfect Jedi Knight. It would be like Luke giving into his anger to attack Vader, but then turning around and giving into his anger to strike Palpatine down. It doesn't work like that. All of the pain that Maul is inflicting on Obi-Wan is provoking Obi-Wan into conflict which Obi-Wan turns around to lose again. If he can't overcome his issues, then he loses. And it's unlikely that he's going to overcome them alone.


    I am talking about where Obi-Wan is going as a character, not where he is now. He's in pain now, he'll be in more pain in the Mandalore arc, but he must overcome it. And I don't see him doing that alone - hence my mentioning Anakin. He's carrying a burden that he feels he must, when he doesn't need to. It's not his responsibility to kill Maul. Nobody ever gave Obi-Wan that task. He and Qui-Gon were ambushed by Maul, that fight was forced upon them. Qui-Gon died and Obi-Wan fought to the best of his ability and cut Maul in half. Obi-Wan is taking on the responsibility to deal with Maul and he's getting people killed in the process. My question is not whether Obi-Wan is/will be in pain. It's how will he overcome that? And I don't think him running off to fight Maul for the umpteenth time recklessly, and reclaiming his "balls" is the most compelling solution. There is no lesson to be learned there and no evolution of the character.

    I want to have faith that Filoni and the writers are not dumb enough to have Sidious kill Maul.


    They bring Maul back, establish that Maul is pretty much looking to achieve the "perfect" revenge upon Obi-Wan. Obi-Wan feels it is his responsibility to deal with Maul and over the course of a series of confrontations only gets people killed and fails. Maul wants Obi-Wan to suffer, Obi-Wan is suffering and feels responsible for dealing with Maul... only for Sidious to kill Maul and bring about an abrupt end to the conflict with neither Maul nor Obi-Wan achieving their goals?

    Regardless of how epic the Maul/Savage vs. Sidious fight may be, or how cool it will be to see Sidious personally involved, Sidious killing Maul would be the most idiotic conclusion to the whole Obi-Wan vs. Maul arc. If ever I were to rage-quit the series, it might be over something like that. I don't care about retcons to the EU. But I would expect competent story telling and not a deus ex machina ending to Obi-Wan's struggle via the abrupt intervention of Sidious who has had no conflict with either character yet.

    I've been frustrated by character arcs before that seem to meander without aim (like Talzin). But to top off Maul vs. Obi-Wan with Sidious saving the day for Obi-Wan would undermine any development that plot has been building toward if Obi-Wan doesn't get to see that conflict through to its resolution. Plus the aforementioned Talzin plot would just be stupid if the extent of her schemes didn't extend beyond bringing Maul back into the picture just to go on some random revenge scheme and get himself killed by his old master.

    I would hope that Sidious' involvement might simply be a prelude to a widening of the conflict and putting Sidious on Maul's and perhaps the Jedi Order's radar. And perhaps lead into Talzin's as of yet unclear plans, if Maul has to turn to her for help.

    But to have Sidious kill Maul at that point for me would be like Luke confronting Vader and the Emperor only for the out-of-control A-wing to come crashing through the observation tower and kill all three, robbing Luke of the confrontation that the story had been building toward.
    Last edited by Seerow, Dec 5, 2012
  22. Legolas Skywalker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 6
    Pretty weird that Obi-Wan refers to Anakin as his brother but Anakin refers Obi-Wan like a father
  23. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

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    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    When Anakin grew his Jedi mullet he joined Obi-Wan in an elite fraternity and became like a brother to him.
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  24. QuangoFett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2011
    star 4
    Male-pattern baldness would thus explain Windu's grouchiness.
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  25. Dark Lord Tarkas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2011
    star 4
    Thanks for the kind words friends, but I steer clear of this thread for fear of spoilers! [face_plain]
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