Clone Wars Official "The Clone Wars" Series Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by RevantheJediMaster, Jul 15, 2005.

  1. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

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    With all the specific threads we have for spoilers, like the S5 thread, the Shadow Conspiracy thread, the episode threads themselves, can't we keep spoilers out of here? At least spoilers that reach way into the future.....
  2. Legolas Skywalker Force Ghost

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    star 6
    I agree with this
  3. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

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    The policy is supposed to be that any video clips or anything from the leaked book are not to be discussed here and only in S5 thread.

    I'm wondering how the Ahsoka storyline and Anakin storyline are tied into Obi-Wan and Maul.

    Are we going to see Anakin get into trouble without his master there to help him?

    Or Ahsoka?
  4. Seerow SWTV★Manager

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    But Anakn is a hothead. You don't go into a bar to talk to someone who pisses you off with a hotheaded friend. That'll only end one way. Anakin might appear somewhere in this arc. Matt Lanter and Sam Witwer supposedly had a scene together unless he plays another character.

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    Again, Obi-wan is likely being sent to Mandalore because of his experience going undercover and his previous experience on Mandalore. If Naboo can request a specific Jedi then so can Mandalore. It could be about stopping Deathwatch and then the spike heads will get the drop on Obi-wan. We'll have to watch the arc and see how this plays out. Obi-wan is pretty much getting setup for failure anyways since Mandalore will likely never be the same. Filoni said this arc will explain some things about Obi-wan, "Sorrow can be sweet".
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    There is three big conflicts coming in this arc. First we have Maul. Second we have the over all fight for Mandalore. Third we have teaming up with the enemy.


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    I don't understand how your wanting TCW to use Obi-wan in this arc? Your wanting him to just do nothing? How will that do anything for Obi-wan's character? I never meant to make it sound like Obi-wan wouldn't overcome his problems. But how can Obi-wan overcome his personal struggle with Maul, overcome his guilt if he doesn't face it? You gotta face your problems to overcome them. Obi-wan is not broken. He is not in over his head. he is not insane. He doesn't need to tag anybody else in. He can take Maul and win. But that's not the point. I'm looking at the big picture right now. I'm stepping back and looking at all the puzzle pieces TCW has been giving me since Mandalorian Plot and all the new incomplete pieces and putting them together. Some are a little hammered in. I don't think Qui-gon is the main source of what would be driving Obi-wan now. Its the innocent people killed in "Revenge". Its the innocent people who are going to be caught up in the war on Mandalore. At first glance thats Deathwatch trying to overthrow the government which shouldn't have anything to do with evil horney bros running around. Can Deathwatch do that without Maul? Obi-wan's challenge is to overcome adversity from within himself and to help Bo-Katan's group who are former enemies. Adversity always builds character. I'm sure there will be plenty of supporting character to help him.


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    No, that's not what I see going on here, I don't think Maul is just looking for revenge anymore. Maul is looking to create an army and try to destroy Dooku and Sids. The posers as he called them. He is going to be seeking out allies and his own army. If he can get revenge on Obi-wan along the way, wonderful. What makes Maul so awesome in TCW is he is one of the most threatening and cunning villains TCW has put on screen which is refreshing and his motives are very well fleshed out. ITs fitting he would team up with Deathwatch which is the only well developed group of villains in the series. It looks like a huge threat. Like a titanic good vs, evil clash. Seems like everybody is going to lose something for once. That's awesome.

    Sids involvement is going to probably be to remove this thorn from his side, kinda lame but make sense. I kinda wonder if he won't somehow leave Maul alive and fit him back into his plans. That just one of the subplots of the coming arc which I think will mainly be used as a vehicle with which to flesh out Obi-wan. Your right TCW needs to follow up with how Talzin fits in but it seems she is some sort of opposition and the horney bros with their army are one of her plans. The basics are there.
    Last edited by Seerow, Dec 5, 2012
  5. mattman8907 Jedi Grand Master

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    Nov 17, 2012
    star 3
    the one arc im also looking forward to is seeing the attack on the jedi temple. i mean in the trailer there was a scene where the jedi were having a funeral for x number of jedi.
  6. TaradosGon SWTV Mod - Like Palpatine with animals

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    Luke had Han watching his back to take out Vader and destroy the Death Star. In ESB, Luke runs off to save his friends and only suffers pain and loses a hand because of it. When it came to the pain that the Emperor was inflicting upon Luke in forcing him to watch his friends die, he has to take a step back and realize that what he's doing is wrong, and it is Vader that steps in to take care of the Emperor, not Luke. The stories are often about team work to overcome the big bad villain, not the hero strolling into a confrontation and figuring it all out and winning. Anakin is someone that Obi-Wan describes as a good friend, a "brother," and that has been shown to have a side beyond being a hothead. I never said that he was going to do nothing. In fact I used the Star Trek example to illustrate how someone runs into conflict, overcomes it, and then goes on to defeat the villain as a team. Obi-Wan thus far keeps making the mistake that Luke made. He wants to save people. And the other Jedi like Yoda and Mace curiously lack the wisdom to caution him or flat out tell Obi-Wan that he shouldn't, as they did with Luke. Luke eventually had to let go of his anger, and it was his connection with his father that helped him to do so.

    A titanic good vs evil clash that will abruptly be resolved when a second evil enters the picture and eliminates Obi-Wan's enemy for him. It's not that it doesn't make sense for Sidious to get involved, it's more a criticism of the fact that it's still terrible story telling to use a deus ex machina resolution. From ESB to ROTJ there is the building up toward a final confrontation between the Emperor/Vader and Luke. Again, IMO it would be like a Rebel ship taking out the Emperor's observation tower and killing the Emperor and Vader while Luke makes it to the turbolift and evacuates just in time. It's robbing the character of the final stage of that conflict. It would be plausible that a ship could take out the observation deck, but that would still be a terrible, terrible conclusion that would have ruined the ending of the OT, which can retroactively cause the prior films to be looked upon with greater criticism, knowing that they are leading to something so out of place.
    Last edited by Seerow, Dec 5, 2012
  7. rumblewagon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2004
    star 4
    I tend to agree with this also despite the thread saying "spoilers allowed". I guess I just don't expect to see spoilers about the season's final episodes and keep running into "partial" spoilers that I have to quickly move away from. Perhaps I'll just avoid any thread that says "spoilers allowed" from this point on.
  8. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

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    Yeah and the twins made out, so weird is as weird does.;)
  9. Seerow SWTV★Manager

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    I am really looking forward to this arc because this is the best kind of hero's journey where the hero gets beat down repeatedly and is still going to get back up and fight until he overcomes himself, comes from the bottom then knocks it out. Its a relatable, grass roots journey. Character moments don't get better than that.

    I don't think Mace and Yoda are that being dumb. Yoda has cautioned Obi-wan at the end of "Revival". It make sense to me to send a guy who had defeated Maul twice and has experience in dealing with darksiders to track down what the Council just sees a criminal. They Probably won't have a higher opinion of Maul when he is leading Black Sun or whatever and Deathwatch as something like his army. A Few hundred Clone Troopers vs that probably won't be much of a fight. I do think Obi-wan is going to get broadsided by Maul in the arc.

    My point is I believe its perfectly possible to develop a character without a team of characters. That's probably more where "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" thing will come in with Bo-Katan and the gang as Obi-wan's primary allies in the arc. Do we have to follow the movie status quo? I don't think Maul is like Luke vs. Vader in ESB. I think Maul is more like the cave on Dagobah for Obi-wan. Then let me point out again that you can't learn a lesson without pain, sometimes it takes multiple cuts to learn your lesson.

    I don't think of Sids as an Ex Machine. I mean, Maul is clearly trying to build an amy and why would he be building an army? It wouldn't take an army to kill Obi-wan I don't think. Its not about revenge its about taking on Dooku and Sids. That's all. He has good reason to come calling since I think Maul being captured by the republic would be a major liability. We'll see where Maul ends up after that. Hopefully Maul will stick around for a while.

    And Maybe if we continue we should move out of here to another thread because of the spoilers even if this one is supposed to be spoilers allowed thread. I dunno, my attention span is running out with this. =b
    Last edited by Seerow, Dec 5, 2012
  10. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

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    Sep 16, 2005
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    *IF* and I mean "if" Sids is shown to have some ax to grind with Maul and I mean IN the episodes, like there's this two way race to get Maul, it would be less deus ex machina and therefore less objectionable should Sids take Maul out (and I don't know who will if anyone). But if Sids merely stepped in at the last moment and pffft'd Maul - OBJECTION!

    Wonder, too, although I don't quite see how it would develop, if the Council pulled Obi-Wan off for a while, citing "it's personal" especially if then Obi-Wan pulls an Anakin and goes anyway. (That's just an idle thought, folks.)

    What I do wonder is we've heard about Ashley being excited to go on the Force cast re: the finale, about Sam and Matt having this great scene, but I have not heard ONE word about JAT "knocking it out of the park" or somesuch. It makes me wonder if they're keeping quiet for once so we're blown away - or there is no such onscreen/audible moment and it's all silent character reaction.
    Last edited by Seerow, Dec 5, 2012
  11. Seerow SWTV★Manager

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    We don't really know how Sids will get involved. I've seen a theory floating around that Savage will get sick of Maul treating him like crap and secretly betray him. We'll get there. I think TCW will develop the seasons. Matt Michnovetz is writing this one I think and if there is one writer who can get the job done its him.

    Brent Friedman I still have faith in you, its not your fault. You were handing some outline about droids on a secret mission to steal a flash drive and I don't envy how much that must hvae sucked for you.

    Maybe Anakin would somehow convince Obi-wan to go, ya never know. A role reversal could be fun.

    I think JAT has been pretty silent on the Maul arc. Haven't heard much from him. I hear everyone was asked to get out when Ashley recorded whatever will happen so maybe JAT just doesn't know about it. We'll see. JAT and DBB are usually the two most reliable cast members when it comes to hyping stuff. IMO, unfortunately.
    Last edited by Seerow, Dec 5, 2012
  12. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

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    Questions I have; beyond Maul knowing that Palpatine is Darth Sidious (and not some clone) are:
    What axe is there for Sidious to grind? The only thing that can threaten Sidious is power... does that mean that Darth Maul really has become a conduit for the dark side (as mentioned in interviews) or does seizing control of the "you know who I'm talking about" really present an obstacle for the Grand Plan? Or could it be both? Is half-a-Maul more dangerous to be kept alive than Dooku?[face_dunno]
    Last edited by Seerow, Dec 5, 2012
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  13. hlc88 Force Ghost

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    Sep 3, 2012
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    It could be that the end of the Maul arc is left rather open-ended and there is no definitive closure to the whole Sidious/Maul thing despite it may looking like it is. We do know that it was said at Celebration that Maul will have more appearances this season then any other villain in the past (unless of course they were lying). So I don't know how much that ties into it and is in reference to possibly more appearances post his specific arc and then ties into the finale with Ahsoka in someway, especially if Sidious is involved in that too.
    Last edited by Seerow, Dec 5, 2012
  14. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

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    My dream-finish to TCW is that Maul is reigned back in and gets sent to kill Ahsoka... which he does. Somehow; Anakin gets knocked out, while Kenobi finishes what he failed to do on Naboo...


    which is to aim for Maul's neck.
    ;)
    Last edited by SithStarSlayer, Dec 5, 2012
  15. hlc88 Force Ghost

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    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4
    Ever since Obi-Wan said that line in 'Revenge' I've always thought that should be what happens in the end.
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  16. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

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    Exactly.[face_clown]
    Last edited by Seerow, Dec 5, 2012
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  17. rumblewagon Jedi Grand Master

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    Well, Darth Maul knowing who Darth Sidious is, and that he is also Palpatine, is certainly a very big axe to grind for Darth Sidious. As treacherous as the Sith are, I could see Darth Maul releasing the secret of his former Master's dual identities to take down everything Palpatine has built and schemed to this point.
    Last edited by Seerow, Dec 5, 2012
  18. TaradosGon SWTV Mod - Like Palpatine with animals

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    Filoni has teased bits about how Talzin's "resurrection"/restoration of Maul has perhaps left him altered. He specifically mentions this in regards to the S5 premiere in which Maul shows the slightest degree of compassion/sympathy for Savage, and Dave mentions that such concern is uncharacteristic for a Sith and just tosses the idea out there that perhaps he was not restored to be exactly who he was. If Maul does not appear between now and Mauldalore (and it doesn't seem like he will) that just seems like an idea that will not be touched upon by the time of Maul's confrontation with Sidious, and for Maul to die would just kind of leave that idea hanging. Savage is there too, so it's not like only Maul's at risk. Savage seemed like he was going to stand on his own, but now he's fairly redundant and seemed to be used by Talzin just as a means to get Maul into the picture, and yet Talzin and Maul have had no direct interaction beyond Maul writhing psychotically on a table while Talzin restores him, only to conspicuously withdraw as soon as he wakes up.

    IMO Savage is expendable, but with questions pertaining to Maul left hanging (and not just his conflict with Obi-Wan), I just don't think Maul is likely to die unless Filoni and Lucas bowed to the negative backlash against Maul's resurrection and are just going to throw him and his development away like they decided to do with Savage once they decided to just bring Maul back.

    Now, I find it unlikely that Maul is going to defeat Sidious or anything like that. But it could be that Sidious has to withdraw if the fight is interrupted, perhaps Maul is able to make some desperate escape. Perhaps Sidious does try to kill Maul, but Maul manages to "cheat death" again/proves remarkably resilient which intrigues Sidious. Or maybe Sidious had no intention of killing Maul and still has some use for Maul, but just takes the opportunity to humble Maul and show to him that he has no chance and to destroy Maul's power base and humiliate him.

    Filoni had mentioned a more in depth look into Talzin and her motives and how Maul/Savage/Asajj fit into that. Unless that's part of the secret finale, then I'm guessing they're looking ahead to Season 6. And I would hope that Maul and/or Savage survives that long, rather than Talzin revealing some elaborate plan that somehow benefited from Maul and Savage getting themselves killed. If Sidious spares Maul and Talzin has actually re-awoken Maul into a character that is not quite his Sithly-self, perhaps she's using him as a puppet to get close to Sidious and kill him?

    Both Talzin and Obi-Wan's stories seem to pivot around Maul, and I just can't find any reason to think story-wise as to how Filoni could kill Maul off in his next arc, unless Lucas woke up one day and decided that resurrecting Maul was a mistake and that he needed to die ASAP, regardless of whatever unresolved story-lines involved him.
    Last edited by Seerow, Dec 5, 2012
  19. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

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    It'd be nice if Obi-Wan's line was foreshadowing.

    I am just curious why there's been no hint of "yummy goodness" in JAT's voicing of the arc. Was it closed door & he was sworn to silence? I'd've thought there would something - like "we had frogs in our throats" or "what til you hear - JAT knocked this one out of the ballpark." Instead we have nothing, no hint. We have hints of Ahsoka goodness, though, we've had in the past some talk about DBB excellence...but literally silence on the Maul arc voicing.

    Maybe that's a bit related to the heavy use of Sam lately in interviews and commentaries?

    Edited to pick up last post: I doubt GL regrets bringing Maul back. It seems to have been a popular decision as far as I'm able to tell and even those of us who hated the idea seem to have largely made peace with it.

    I wouldn't have a problem with him hanging around into next season or later - but it would indicate a lack of closure for Obi-Wan in the Maudalore arc. Better alive than dead at Sids hands, I guess.
    Last edited by Seerow, Dec 5, 2012
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  20. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

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    Yes, please.

    As I think I've mentioned before, the writers could atone themselves for the atrocity of bringing Maul back if they allow Obi-Wan to kill him again.
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  21. Togruta Force Ghost

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    I think Obi-Wan is the last person I'd want to kill Maul. Just seems predictable and pointless.
    Last edited by Seerow, Dec 5, 2012
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  22. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

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    Maul returning in the first place was pointless.
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  23. Togruta Force Ghost

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    Then no need to make it more so.

    He'll probably have some kind of involvement though.
    Last edited by Togruta, Dec 5, 2012
  24. TaradosGon SWTV Mod - Like Palpatine with animals

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    Meanwhile this talk about Sidious had me go back and re-watch the featurette with Filoni and Witwer for Revival in which they touch upon how the Rule of Two means that the Sith Master cannot select an apprentice on something as frivolous as swordsmanship, and that the apprentice also has to be extremely intelligent in addition to being powerful to make for the best candidate. Hence they say this is why they have attempted to showcase Maul as being a very intelligent character and not just a silent enforcer. Witwer goes on to talk about how finding the apprentice that is just right is very important to Palpatine and how Vader ends up being sort of the ideal apprentice that trumps Dooku and Maul... Yet I never really got the idea that Anakin was some kind of deep thinking, patient (definitely not), genius. Not to say that Anakin was dumb, but aside from his raw power, he wasn't really show casing any remarkably high level of intelligence (smart, but not on that same level as Dooku or Maul in their schemes) that really sets him apart, and when it comes to Sidious testing Anakin, Sidious just seems interested in the raw power department.

    If you lie to someone and they buy it, I also wouldn't think that you're opinion of their intelligence would really improve from that and that you would instead just regard them as gullible. If Sidious feeds his apprentice lies and they buy into everything he says, it seems like over time he'd just consider them gullible fools. Maul having a backbone and being resourceful enough to stand on his own like he has would seem like it would be something to be commended if you're looking for someone with intelligence. While someone like Vader that so readily buys into lies just seems to be more on the "foolish" end of the spectrum.

    Either Witwer and Filoni are making stuff up and Palpatine likes them gullible (and therefore controllable), or perhaps Maul's work will get some measure of respect from Palpatine and perhaps showing a more intelligent side to Anakin in TCW, before he starts backsliding into gullibility in ROTS might be warranted.
    Last edited by Seerow, Dec 5, 2012
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  25. Seerow SWTV★Manager

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    I am expecting the best JAT performance to date in the coming arc and can't imagine less from him. I'm expecting the usual dry humor and a reasonable emotional performance. I am hoping this will be the TCW arc that actually makes me cry. That will be hitting it out of the ball park for me. I think JAT was the best part of "Revenge" IMO.

    I think he might be swarn to secrecy for this arc for some reason and everyone seemed to be for the final arc of the season.

    I gotta be honest. I like Maul's return. He enhances the show because he gained OC status which makes him one of the first genuiely threatening bad guys to come on screen in TCW. He adds alot of uncertainty to a TV that is usually 95% predictable. I'm fine with him living into more seasons and getting other roles. We'll see what happens to him. Come on, bring on this arc already!
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