Clone Wars Official "The Clone Wars" Series Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by RevantheJediMaster, Jul 15, 2005.

  1. Robimus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2007
    star 5
    According to The Jedi Path, in the section on Jedi Recruitment, many Jedi feel that a child being Force strong is devine permission to take the child. The arguement given in that book against those who claim the Jedi are kidnappers is that the Jedi have the legal right to take the children and thus are not kidnapping anyone. Bascially it is OK because the Republic says it is OK.

    The Essential Guide to the Force, written IU by Tionne Solusar of Luke's order, claims that Old Jedi Order would seek consent.

    The Jedi Mind Trick itself is not as easy to beat as Obi-Wan would have us believe in ANH. As evidenced with the Jedi mind raping Bane in Season 2, its pretty hard to stop the Jedi from getting what they want if they are determined.

    I can not personally recall evidence of a Jedi taking a child from a parent by use of brute force. I'm guessing that its pretty unlikely.
  2. TaradosGon SWTV Mod - Like Palpatine with animals

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    Personally, while I find the topic interesting of what demographics Jedi recruits were pulled from and the public view of the Jedi. I also just find it interesting/peculiar/irresponsible that expulsion exists.

    You find child with ridiculously high midichlorian count. If you don't train him in the Jedi arts, he'll probably grow up to just be viewed as "gifted" with talents like precognition or uncanny reflexes. But instead you take the responsibility to train this child and soon he begins to unlock his potential and becomes very, very powerful, but he's also emotionally volatile and you know there is a very real risk of him hurting himself or others with these new powers if you are unable to help him get his emotions under control. This emotionally unstable individual then makes a reckless decision and you just kick him out of the Jedi Order?

    You took a more or less harmless kid, raised him to achieve potentially dangerous powers, but got fed up with him when he didn't learn his lessons or responsibility fast enough and so you just unleash that dangerous individual into the galaxy to fend for themselves?

    When people ask things like whether Yoda knew about the Tusken slaughter or Anakin's marriage, I can't help but think why should it matter? If one of your students went on an enraged killing spree, you don't just expel them and wash your hands of it. You step it up and get that person the help they need, or if their crime is heinous enough, you send them to a place like the Citadel to keep them removed from society.

    Anakin's shown that he has the capacity to slaughter men, women and children when he is distraught enough? Nothing could possibly go wrong if we expel him and leave him to fend for himself!

    It's been awhile since I played KOTOR 2, but I know they touch upon the belief that the Jedi Council could sever an expelled student's connection to the Force. If I remember correctly, it turns out that that's not what happened to "The Exile," but I don't know if that ability is still supposed to exist or not. I wouldn't think it exists in Lucas' mind, otherwise that just seems like it should be pretty standard for individuals like Dooku that want to leave the Order and prisoners like Palpatine (he's not too dangerous to take alive if you can sever his Force connection).

    I'm curious to see how an expulsion would play out in the TCW version of things. Possibly with Ahsoka [face_thinking]
  3. Seerow SWTV★Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2011
    star 6
    I wasn't sure. Seems like the Jedi mind trick gets beat a fair bit in both the movies and TCW. In the same episode where Bane's "mind raping" happens its also mentioned that could basically destroy his mind. I'm not sure its any better for Jedi PR if the child they are taking's mom is found in the floor brain dead compared to just using brute force. That'd be pretty low. It really puts into perspective why folks would distrust the Jedi.

    Ahsoka seems like the kinda character who would turn vigilante if she got expelled. I'm not sure who she would fight for. That might actually happen this season.

    Well what do you do with someone who breaks the rules enough to deserve explosion or wants to leave the order? Kill them? Brain wash them? Lock them in the prison in the Citadel arc? Really before the Sith showed back up it was probably figured there wasn't much of a danger if all the darksider info only existed in written text in the Jedi archive. The Jedi might have failed to adapt this policy during The Clone Wars when this was a much bigger possibility. It may also be that rule of two thing sorta. The Jedi figure there are only a few of them and at that point and someone like Dooku is not actively seeking anybody. Do they know why Ventress is on her own now? Then Savage turned on him so its not like Dooku has much luck with that and would want to rush back out and try again. Is the third try really the charm? Clearly a Jedi can seek this as Krell demonstrated and its interesting he was looking to park himself under Dooku. Makes it seem like a darksider could only get so far on their own and would likely end up about as menacing as Savage is.

    If your student goes on a killing spree, you make sure they are off the streets and in jail. They aren't safe out on the streets. However, can you really call someone insane and dangerous to society for getting married? Yeah its against the rules but you can't jail someone like that. Expulsion makes more sense there. I get the feeling Yoda felt it, he knew. I figure with the whole "Chosen One" thing Anakin got a free pass and special treatment because it was thought Anakin was needed. They needed him to fulfill a prophecy none may have fully understood. One of the many mistakes the Jedi made, IMO.

    Then again, just for kicks, would it really have saved the galaxy from everything that happened if Qui-gon never brought Anakin to the Jedi and he had never been trained? Wouldn't Sidious's plan have gone on anyways?
    Last edited by Seerow, Dec 24, 2012
  4. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    I have no idea what this is supposed to mean.

    I'm not buying this law, it's way past my suspension of disbelief.

    Don't buy this one, either.

    So you're saying there are bad apples?

    Why wouldn't it exist? Not all cases are like the one you describe.

    Also, quickly come up with a Jedi who was expelled. I couldn't come up with one off the top of my head. Seems the Old Jedi are more compassionate than they are given credit for.

    I understand this is just a hypothetical, but that's all it is.

    ?

    Of course it matters if they knew. If they didn't know, why would they think he needs help? How would they know he has the capacity to go on a killing spree?

    And.....they didn't expel him.

    What to do with troubled Jedi is a bit tricky. If you don't let them leave, you're being oppressive, if you let them go free, you're incompetent.

    I say treat them like any other citizen. They break the law, they're subject to the appropriate punishment. If they're deemed mentally unfit, they get treatment. They go on a rampage, they're to be stopped, with lethal force if necessary.

    What to do with people who have serious problems is not solely a Jedi conundrum, it's a difficult situation for all civilizations.
    Esg likes this.
  5. TaradosGon SWTV Mod - Like Palpatine with animals

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    The no marriage thing isn't some arbitrary rule just because the Jedi suck and are uptight. It's to prevent the Jedi from becoming attached and is linked to negative emotions in the case of Anakin. If Yoda found out that Anakin was married and expelled him, then what? Anakin and Padme could stay married and Anakin could continue sliding toward the dark side. Expelling him would not solve anything beyond the Jedi washing their hands of their responsibility to Anakin. They gave him the power to become potentially dangerous, but then just give up when he breaks the rules and pretty much absolve themselves of any responsibility they would have if Anakin hurt someone. .

    For what Anakin speaks of compassion, the Jedi don't seem to be rich in it, if they're so ready to expel at the drop of a hat. You don't expel someone for going back and saving an ally (Padme) and costing a mission in the process. If so, then Yoda should be expelled for saving Anakin and Obi-Wan when he should have stopped Dooku and could have saved millions of lives.

    Now yes, if Anakin murdered someone and it warranted an arrest, then he should be locked up. But something like a marriage should be treated no differently than something like Anakin's attachment to his mother, which he was not expelled for. Obi-Wan counseled him through that. It's all about attachment, I wouldn't think it makes any difference if it's as part of a sexual relationship, or through family bonds, or even a good friend that you value above all else, they're all possessive relationships that are tied to jealousy/greed/fear.

    I suspect Yoda knew about Padme and that he perhaps sympathized with Anakin and wasn't the crotchety old Jedi that was going to dish out an expulsion like Anakin was lead to believe. Anakin goes to Yoda regarding how to save Padme, and I kind of get the sense that Yoda might have a hunch as to what's going on and to whom Anakin is referring, but he still doesn't call Anakin out on it and instead offers advice to try to help Anakin the best he knows how, though still offering words of caution.

    The only time that expulsion really comes up is when Anakin wants to go back and get Padme when she falls out of the gunship, and coming from Obi-Wan that just seemed incredibly harsh and I have my doubts as to whether or not he would have actually have been expelled.
    Last edited by TaradosGon, Dec 24, 2012
  6. TaradosGon SWTV Mod - Like Palpatine with animals

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    It's a plausible outcome - since I pretty much just described Anakin who had been threatened with expulsion - that seems incredibly dangerous. The Jedi live a strict lifestyle to ward against the temptations of the Dark Side which leads to evil. You're not helping anyone by cutting a troubled student loose and refusing to give him/her further guidance.

    I worded that awkwardly. I meant that even if they had known that Anakin was married, they still shouldn't expel him, and definitely not so if they knew he had killed the Tuskens. If they knew about the Tuskens, the responsible thing would be to either lock Anakin up or give him counseling and help him through his pain, fear, and anger to ensure it never happens again and rehabilitate him. Simply expelling someone known to be emotionally disturbed and that has a capacity for revenge-killing would be irresponsible, especially when it was Anakin's Jedi training that made him so dangerous.
    Last edited by TaradosGon, Dec 24, 2012
  7. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    Yeah, but we don't know that the Jedi handle it this way. Are there any examples?

    I know it's a hypothetical, but it seems like you're building up a massive hypothetical straw man of the Jedi Order's policies.
  8. TaradosGon SWTV Mod - Like Palpatine with animals

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    I'm not setting up a position not held by the Jedi. Obi-Wan clearly tells Anakin he will be expelled for something as simple as jeopardizing a mission over an attachment. I know that the Jedi Council wouldn't necessarily side with Obi-Wan, but it's possible. And it is just a hypothetical scenario. What would the Jedi do if they found out that Anakin was married? I don't know for a fact that Anakin would be expelled, and I don't think he should. And if he were to be, it just seems like the Jedi would need a way to "de-claw" someone that has been taught to wield great power but failed to learn the responsibility to control it. I pointed out that KOTOR 2 mentions the concept of the Jedi Council being able to sever an individual's Force connection, though I don't recall if that is debunked in the game. I know that it is debunked in reference to the Exile, but I don't know if it is still within the realm of possibility IU or just a myth. If it does exist, and if the Jedi could take Anakin's lightsaber, sever his connection to the Force and send him on his way to live a normal life, then I would not have a problem with that.

    The concept of a failed student is just something I would be interested to see touched upon. Especially during TCW when it is known that the Sith are out there and there is even a greater danger of an expelled angry Jedi becoming the next assassin for Dooku.
    Last edited by TaradosGon, Dec 24, 2012
  9. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    IIRC in TOTJ, Nomi Sunrider strips Jedi turned Sith Ulic Qel-Droma of the Force. I think Vergere severed Jacen Solo's Force connection in the NJO. It may have been Vong tech, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't. I think I remember Jacen Solo doing the same to Ben Skywalker, though I'd like to forget that whole business.

    So there are examples other than KOTOR2.
  10. Swashbucklingjedi Game Winner

    Game Winner
    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2010
    star 5
    And then it turned out to be a godzilla-tribute:oops: .... I never liked that idea very much even though monsters are classic SW....

    I meant that adding "magic" in such a pure form was bit of a stretch, while several factions being involved was not.
    Term "Wars" like Punic Wars for example usually refer to a series of conflicts and I think that Jedi Purge for example is part of the "Clone Wars"- Yoda uses a term "the Clone War" in AOTC and doesn't use plural form "Wars"
    Last edited by Swashbucklingjedi, Dec 25, 2012
  11. Robimus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2007
    star 5
    Thing is you can have whatever you want in your personal canon. The Jedi could all be good people, none of them ever fell or turned to the darkside. You can ignore Anakin & Dooku and C'baoth and whoever else. ut if you are going to look towards C-Canon in particular there are numerous examples(some that have already been mentioned).

    I mean your welcome to ignore baby Ludi, ignore the Republic laws the Jedi themselves mention following, ignore Lorn Pavan's story, or Crys Taanzer's and even the fact that Jedi recruit children before they have the ability to choose for themselves.(Something which Luke's order did not do). I can't view them the same way. There is too much evidence of questionable practices to make me not give the the situation serious thought.

    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Dark_Jedi

    Here, judge for yourself. Maybe not everyone listed is on the same level but the list is pretty significant, especially when one views the damage that fallen Jedi like Anakin, Dooku, Malak and more did. I don't believe that these Jedi who fell to the darkside wouldn't have used their abilities to influence someone to get a potential Jedi enlisted. If they were falling to the darkside it wasn't like a switch got thrown all of a sudden, they would be falling while they were with the order.

    What I'm getting at is why do the Jedi have the devine right to be the only Force teachers in the galaxy? Their training comes with strings attached, just like the other Force groups have. Maybe they are the best of a bad lot, but would you tell an artist you would train them to be the best artist they can be - but only if they learn to be soldiers to enforce the will of a government?

    I think your right, its not a normal occurence. That said Anakin is clearly threatened with expulsion fromn the Jedi Order so I don't think its outside the realm of possibility either. Its interesting though that when people present evidence of Force strong children being taken by the Jedi in suspect fashion you sipmly say "I don't buy it" and dismiss the actual evidence, while on the flip side demanding actual evidence in other cases? Which is it? Do we need actual evidence or don't we?
  12. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    I just cannot buy those stories, they make it seem like the Jedi are breaking into homes to steal children in the night and it just undermines the entire Star Wars story imo. Those stories are completely incompatible with the rest of Star Wars, imo.

    Children never choose for themselves, parents choose for them.

    Personally, I didn't see Lorn Pavan's story as particularly bad. I don't think I'm familiar with Crys Taanzer.

    Hell, I love C'baoth, but he might be the best example of a Jedi who would snatch some babies.

    Anakin and Dooku? We know Anakin didn't and I doubt Dooku did, especially since he was hurt that his mother gave him up.

    Yes, I'm aware there are Dark Jedi. Malak and any before the Ruusan Reformations shouldn't count though, right? They weren't even taking kids back then, right?

    You ignored my "bad apples" argument, which was that a few bad examples shouldn't be held up as the rule.

    I absolutely don't mind other groups teaching Force-sensitives, but I think the Jedi are definitely a better choice than the Sith or the Nightsisters.

    I don't agree that Jedi are forced to enforce the will of a government, or any will but their own. They can always walk away, as Dooku did.

    There is no example of Jedi taking children without parental consent that I would buy, outside of Dark Jedi doing it without anyone knowing. It simply wouldn't happen otherwise.

    But I'm open to examples of expulsion, which I don't think I've seen.
    Last edited by CT-867-5309, Dec 25, 2012
  13. Seerow SWTV★Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2011
    star 6
    I get exactly why the Jedi ban marriage and attachment. This isn't something they do unique for Anakin. The Jedi obviously aren't so willing to expel its students at the drop of Dave's fedora. We not only have Anakin breaking rules. We also have Krell who is a bigot and getting clones killed by the hundreds. I am not so sure Yoda would have been much more oblivious to Krell than Anakin. Then aren't there other Jedi who are all secretly in love? It almost makes Obi-wan's threat of expulsion sound as holo as a child getting threatened with being grounded in this day and age,

    The Jedi are supposed to be noble aren't they? A noble order can't be cutting off peoples heads or executing them so what do you do with them? If they go on a murderous rampage you lock them up and throw away they key. If all they do is break the code by forbidden love you expelled them and let them go on. I don't think there is any reason to assume they will leave, turn to the darkside, and start eating babies. I bet the Jedi would keep track of them anyways and take their first born. Jedi who leave on good terms may be a good source for new recruits.

    Anakin is clearly a special case. He was a murderer but he was the chosen one. I agree that in Anakin's case keeping him in the order was the safest thing to do. In a way he is like a human weapon. That can't fall into the wrong hands. They want to keep him in the order. So Yoda felt it but did he understand the extent of it? Really its dubious since all Yoda says is that Anakin is in pain. The Jedi thought he was going to fulfill a prophecy. It was one that Obi-wan seemed to believe in. I don't think he would of been expelled no matter what.
    CT-867-5309 likes this.
  14. K'Kruhk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 11, 2011
    star 3
    Codi Ty.
  15. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    Ty is a solid example. He thought his intentions were good but he was misguided, he defied the Council and went on an assassination mission. Banning him may have been a bit harsh, but he lost his Jedi privileges and became a citizen subject to the laws of the galaxy.

    I don't see a problem with it.
  16. Paparazzo Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 31, 2011
    star 2
    Agreed, and the bomb dropping is awesome too. Shame about the dreadful Zillo Beast. What happened to Palpatine trying to use its skin as armour at the end of the arc? I'm going to presume it was too tough to break off.
    Last edited by Paparazzo, Dec 26, 2012
  17. Seerow SWTV★Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2011
    star 6
    I liked the Zillobeast. It would probably take a long time go grow a Zillo clone so that may be the excuse for lack of follow up. TCW is seemingly getting better at following up on things so maybe we'll see some sort of special armor in the future. An armor which can repel a lightsaber.
    Paparazzo likes this.
  18. Swashbucklingjedi Game Winner

    Game Winner
    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2010
    star 5
    Vader's armor seems to be somewhat ligthsaberproof in ESB when Luke strikes him. Maybe that's made out of Zilloskin[face_thinking]
    fistofan1 and Paparazzo like this.
  19. Seerow SWTV★Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2011
    star 6
    Maybe that's it. Doesn't sound like something TCW will explain.
  20. Swashbucklingjedi Game Winner

    Game Winner
    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2010
    star 5
    ^I dunno but would be interesting tie-in.

    I just finished watching Umbara-arc- that one is definitely one of the best arcs they've made. Even though would've been fun to learn more about reasons why umbarans joined the CIS as well as Krell's background. Why Anakin was called back to Coruscant also went unexplained....
  21. Seerow SWTV★Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2011
    star 6
    Krell's backstory is likely just a Jedi who has fallen off the bandwagon because of the war and the Jedi taking such an ethical slide because of it Then he started having the visions or nightmares of a future where the Jedi are slaughtered and far as he can tell the republic has lost. Its debatable if Krell actually saw the Empire in his vision. His motives were clearly to try and get to Dooku's side in order to be on the winning one, avoid the slaughter he saw, and gain a powerful seat. I thought its was largely what he saw in his visions that caused the hatred he felt for the clones. He was in fact terrified of them, perhaps the way I'm scare of tiny red ants where I could step on dozens of them but if enough of them attack at once they can kill a person. The whole "your inferior" thing was how he expressed it.

    I felt llike the Rako Hardeen arc very slightly hinted back to Umbara when Rex was guarding Palpatine. Palpatine doesn't want to outright one up the Jedi at that point even if he had all the authority to do so. So, he took advantage or maybe asked Anakin if his reliable clone captain could bodyguard him. That was because Rex by now definitely has a reputation for independence and even dissension. He would be perfectly capable of running interference for Anakin which either way is exactly what he was doing. Its good enough to cast doubt. I image that in any meeting about Krell it would have been Mace who was most worried about the clones dissenting and taking Krell down. - "You can't or won't?"

    Still some follow up would be nice. It would be really cool to see how the stigma of what happened truly effects both Rex and Fives. How did Cody feel since his men were involved as well? It would be interesting to see if the story effects Jedi/ Clone relations across the board. It would also be cool to find out exactly what happened to Dogma. Would new measures be put into place? I wonder how the council would react. I have a bad feeling that Krell may have already committed some stuff that would have been red flags and it was swept under the rug. The high casualty numbers didn't just happen. Krell is obviously a brutal guy lacking respects for life. It would even be cool if the Republic media had somehow picked up on a story about clone troopers turning on their General and spun it. Put some doubt into the minds of citizens and have then glacing sideways at those riot troopers on Coruscant when they pass thinking - "Could these guys randomly turn and shoot me?"
    Last edited by Seerow, Dec 26, 2012
  22. Swashbucklingjedi Game Winner

    Game Winner
    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2010
    star 5
    I would rather think that media would make it "Jedi betrays the republic!" With or without Sidious the incident would taint little more the image of jedi as peace keepers rather than making clones look dangerous. Clones were heroes in that incident after all and it seems that jedi are not too liked at the time, maybe because of guys like Krell really existing (while of course being minority). I would imagine he is that kind of jedi Lux imagined most jedi to be. Monster-jedi seen in CIS-propaganda and later in the Imperial one.
    Seerow likes this.
  23. TaradosGon SWTV Mod - Like Palpatine with animals

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    Republic media? What Republic media? :p

    If such an incident happened and troops fragged their general, the troops are going to be the one put under suspicion, not the general. The troops would have to be the ones to prove Krell's betrayal and show that they had to kill Krell. Their disobedience and traitorous behavior would be a huge thing. I don't think the media would default to blaming the Jedi. And there's no benefit to Palpatine allowing the clones to come under scrutiny.

    That's the kind of story that I think should have followed Umbara IMMEDIATELY. Rex was complicit in the events of Umbara and I would have expected him to be apprehended pending a court hearing regarding a conspiracy of the 501st to kill Krell and the clones having to defend themselves and prove Krell's guilt and how the media, Jedi and Palpatine would view all of this. It would be to Palpatine's advantage to have the clones shown to be innocent and that Krell is an evil traitorous Jedi. It would be interesting to see how the Jedi reacted and with Anakin's replacement getting killed by Anakin's troops, it could have played off of Anakin's conflict between trusting Rex and perhaps thinking that maybe he can't trust the clones, etc.

    Instead they glossed over this and Rex is back on the front lines like Umbara never happened. Missed opportunity.

    EDIT: And if they wanted to get creative and get "experimental" with their Star Wars story-telling, that could have even been an arc that played out "in media res" with the arc beginning with Dogma, Fives and Rex on trial for treason with the events that happened on Umbara occurring as flashbacks as they tell their side of the story, mixed with the occasional break that then jumps back to the present as Anakin might be a character witness and explain why he was called off the front line, or show what Palpatine is doing behind the scenes to acquire the evidence to condemn Krell, etc.
    Last edited by TaradosGon, Dec 26, 2012
  24. Robimus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2007
    star 5
    How did they all end up as command officers for the Republic? Forced might not be the right word, but strongly encouraged, to down right indoctrination, seems to be the norm. They are even bank rolled by the Republic.

    I'm not holding up anything as the rule. I'm looking at the examples from C-canon that we have seen and questioning the methods of some of the Jedi, and frankly the recruitment division as a whole. Lorn Pavan's case is a perfect example of a parent that clearly wasn't given the infomation he needed to understand the situation and he ended up losing all contact with his son and his career over the sitaution. Even the Jedi he pairs with in the book doesn't discount he possbility of the situation being true.

    Maybe you feel the Jedi acted in the appropriate fashion, I do not. If its just a matter of getting parental consent, no matter the feelings of the parents or the methods they use to get them, then the Jedi definitly acted with the boundaries of what they feel is ethically accepable in the case of Jax Pavan.

    But you have been given examples, if you buy them or not isn't the issue. You may feel that the Jedi were justified in these cases but thats different than pretending that they didn't happen.

    Thats fine, but then there really isn't anything to discuss.
    Last edited by Robimus, Dec 26, 2012
  25. Seerow SWTV★Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2011
    star 6
    That's even better. Fits in with lightsaber lost and Palpies bit speech about Jedi not conspiring the war. Then instead clones are seen as heroes. But that creates logic issues with futures episodes.

    I think the republic media exists @TaradosGon. Its just pretty much spoon fed stuff and is then spoon feeding people stuff and is part of the real conspiracy. Hits a little close to IRL doesn't it? I agree with you the troops should be the ones under suspicion. I think either outcome makes the Jedi look really bad in the end however. From someone looking in its gotta seem like the whole Jedi/ clone things is a clutterfrig.

    Umbara should have been followed up immediately. Its kinda strange Rex would have ended up on the Slaver Arc mission so quickly but then again... snap shots. I feel fairly certain TCW will come back to this. Perhaps in the mythical Fives arc that Dave said is out there and apparently not really coming this season.