Clone Wars Official "The Clone Wars" Series Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by RevantheJediMaster, Jul 15, 2005.

  1. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    I don't think that "Torrent Company" has any meaning to Filoni or Lucas. Every kind of promotional material related to Rex that I have seen have him referred to as leader of the 501st. For instance, both Cartoon Network's website and Starwars.com credit him as being in command of the 501st battalion.

    The EU seemed to make efforts to make sense of the fact as to why Rex is only a Captain while all of his peers are "Commanders," but even then that explanation put Appo as Rex's superior only for Umbara to show that isn't true. My personal guess (not confirmed to my knowledge) was that since Rex was going to be something of a main character along with Ahsoka (who is a commander), that maybe Lucas and Filoni made Rex a Captain so that it would be clear who is being referenced as commander and who is captain and show definitively that Ahsoka is Rex's superior, not his peer.

    ***
    Edit: Also on the topic of why Rex is a captain instead of a commander, if you go to his bio at starwars.com, but then click on Ahsoka's profile under the "relationships" heading, the first sentence is that she holds the rank of commander. So perhaps because Anakin has a padawan that supercedes Rex and holds the rank of commander, that might be why Rex is "demoted" in relation to Cody (since Obi-Wan doesn't have a padawan). Appo's ascension to the rank of commander might mean that both Rex and Ahsoka are out of the way at that point.

    ***

    However, in the real world "commander" is usually just a generic term to refer to the commanding officer of a particular unit, and the actual rank is usually associated with navies, not armies.

    It's not clear what the intent is on film, though the EU seemed to run with the idea of "commander" as a rank. For all I know, Cody is a captain too or a colonel or a major, etc. but is just referred to more generically as a commander because he's in charge.
    Last edited by TaradosGon, Jan 8, 2013
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  2. Fives_Says_No_To_Sixes Jedi Grand Master

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    Jan 6, 2013
    star 3
    I've never thought about it like that before. It does make a lot of sense. Especially since we hear Rex make decisions about who should be inducted into the 501st (Fives + Echo) and since he's always portrayed as a peer to Cody.

    I really hope that he isn't KIA before Order 66 though...
  3. 07jonesj Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2010
    star 4
    Does "The Essential Guide to Warfare" cover any of this stuff?
  4. Fives_Says_No_To_Sixes Jedi Grand Master

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    Jan 6, 2013
    star 3
    If my memory serves me correctly, it gives the breakdown of certain armies but doesn't give specifics on Rex.

    EDIT: Yea, it basically just says that a clone captain leads a Company...not a Legion (Brigade as its referred to in the GAR). thats why i made the assumption about Torrent Company being consistent with TCW...
    Last edited by Fives_Says_No_To_Sixes, Jan 8, 2013
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  5. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

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    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    No idea.

    I know that the MMORPG The Old Republic provides a codex entry for military ranks within the Republic army (albeit thousands of years before the Clone Wars) and "commander" is not a rank in their listing. I thought that was kind of odd since they seemed to model the classes off of very iconic things from the films, and all of the principal clones, except Rex, seem to be "commanders."

    I think in the EU commander has been treated as a military rank within the army, and the in universe explanation could be that the ranking systems changed over the course of a few thousand years.

    Or it could be that "commander" isn't a formal rank.

    Ranks according to TOR:

    Supreme Commander
    General (Army), Admiral (Navy)
    Colonel (Army), Commodore (Navy)
    Major (Army), Group Captain (Navy)
    Captain
    Lieutenant
    Ensign
    Sergeant (Army), Petty Officer (Navy)
    Corporal
    Specialist
    Private

    Of course I highly doubt Lucas or Filoni have an actual list of the military rank hierarchy in front of them when coming up with titles, because TCW seems pretty light when it comes to the various ranks. Pretty much just "commanders" and "captains."
    Last edited by TaradosGon, Jan 8, 2013
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  6. Fives_Says_No_To_Sixes Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2013
    star 3
    Here's what The Essential Guide to Warfare says:

    Squad (9 troopers): Led by a clone sergeant
    Platoon (36 troopers): 4 squads led by a clone lieutenant
    Company (144 troopers plus support personnel): 4 platoons led by a clone captain
    Battalion (576 troopers plus support personnel): 4 companies led by a clone battalion commander
    Regiment (2,304 troopers plus support personnel): 4 battalions led by a clone regimental commander and a Jedi commander, often a Padawan serving a Jedi General
    Brigade (9,216 troopers plus support personnel): 4 regiments led by a clone senior commander and a Jedi General - also called "legions"
    Corps (36,864 troopers plus support personnel): 4 brigades led by a clone marshal commander and a Jedi General
    Sector Army (147,456 troopers plus support personnel): 4 corps commanded by a highly experienced Jedi General
    Systems Army (294,912 troopers plus support personnel): 2 sector armies commanded by a Jedi General - a member of the Jedi High Council
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  7. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    That seems all kinds of tedious, especially if "commander" can be short for clone battalion commander, clone regimental commander, clone senior commander, or clone marshal commander.

    I thought Cody was a marshal commander, so "Commander" Cody has "commanders" reporting to him who have subordinate "commanders" who have subordinate "commanders" [face_hypnotized]
  8. 07jonesj Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2010
    star 4
    @TaradosGon @Fives_Says_No_To_Sixes

    Thanks! I really should buy the Essential Guide, love this kind of info. And I really need to delve into the story of TOR (hate MMOs but the story interests me).
  9. Fives_Says_No_To_Sixes Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2013
    star 3
    @TaradosGon
    Yea I know...I think they purposely made it unclear so they could figure it all out later. The EU tells us that Cody was in charge of the 212th Attack Battalion...which according to this...makes him pretty low on the totem pole...and since Obi-wan is on the high jedi council and the leader of the 3rd Systems Army, it seems odd that he would be spending all his time with a leader who's so low down the ladder.

    Still, i think this could have been the reason they gave Anakin a captain and not a commander, Obi-wan's on the council, in charge of a systems army. Anakin's only in charge of a brigade.

    @07jonesj
    Yea...it was the one thing I asked for from my girlfriend for Christmas...:D
    Last edited by Fives_Says_No_To_Sixes, Jan 8, 2013
  10. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

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    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    According to Wookieepedia, he was in charge of a corps (and is a marshal commander), but took personal charge of the 212th Attack Battalion.

    So there would be other Battalions still under his command as part of his corp that he is responsible for, but does not lead personally.
  11. Fives_Says_No_To_Sixes Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2013
    star 3
    It'd be nice if in the next couple of seasons we get to see how the ranks in the GAR really sort themselves out. Like how we got to see domino squad's life from cadets to Rishi post, to Arc, etc... but focus more specifically on the officers.
  12. Robimus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2007
    star 5
    I'd rather not go backwards anymore.

    Just at a glance this doesn't make a lot of sense to me. As a Clone Commando Gregor would be part of basically special forces groups and specialized missions - not tasked with commanding a ton of rank and file soldiers.
    Last edited by Robimus, Jan 8, 2013
  13. Fives_Says_No_To_Sixes Jedi Grand Master

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    Jan 6, 2013
    star 3
    I didn't mean flashback episodes as much as I meant seeing the ranks and officers between the Jedi and Rex/Cody and seeing them all interact; getting to know the different companies/units under their command and how they run them. Instead of only seeing a few troopers with Rex and Cody and Ani and Obi.
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  14. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    The Star Wars ranks in general don't make sense to me. Though to be honest, I don't exactly quite follow the structure of real militaries. For instance, even just going to Wikipedia and looking up the structure of the US army

    and then there's the list of the yadda yadda airborne division or infantry or cavalry and spec ops groups, etc. And for the individual articles of each there are sometimes illustrations outlining the structure.

    So for instance, the 101st US Airborne Division

    [IMG]

    With the Division made up by several brigades with coincidentally a 501st Battalion offshoot separate from those brigades. And I have no idea what the command structure of each looks like or what rank commands each little node. So even if the Battalion perhaps is headed by someone of lesser rank than the Brigade - or vice versa? - they don't seem like they answer to each other but to a common Major General.

    ...

    Kind of deviating there. But when it comes to Gregor, he seems like a grunt. A highly trained grunt, but still a grunt. Captains in the real world are commissioned officers I think. I would not think that Gregor is a commissioned officer but maybe a sergeant of some kind. Yet he is a Captain. I get lost enough in real world military hierarchies that the fictional one of the Star Wars universe makes less sense to me and I generally don't even bother trying to understand it.

    At least TOR pretty much just copied and pasted a real world hierarchy.
    Last edited by TaradosGon, Jan 8, 2013
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  15. SpecialOpsUnit Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 1, 2007
    star 4
    If they kill him off and that's an if, I see them doing something similar to what Gregor just did.

    A big mission(where Anakin, Ahsoka, Obi-Wan, Cody and Fives are present) and he stays back to cover their escape. Something similar to that.
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  16. Fives_Says_No_To_Sixes Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2013
    star 3
    That's assuming he died...Those last lines by Gascon and Gregor kept the possibility that he could have survived IMO. And everytime I see a death in Star Wars, I think about Palpatine's dialogue in ROTS when looking for Yoda after the Senate duel - haven't found a body? then they're not dead.
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  17. SpecialOpsUnit Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 1, 2007
    star 4
    I actually don't think he died, I was more referring to him staying back and covering them so they can get away safely.The commentary for Missing in Action pretty much confirms that Gregor lived through it.

    That's the heroic type thing that Rex would do and I think they would have to do, they want to keep Rex a hero IMO. With Order 66 coming up, there aren't many ways for a clone to remain a hero in the viewer's eyes.
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  18. Fives_Says_No_To_Sixes Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2013
    star 3
    After I posted that, I realized you might have meant that...I agree, it would be one of the few heroic fates for Rex. I'm just holding on to the idea that Fives, Jesse and Rex refusing the order, and help Ahsoka escape...then spend the "Dark times" as her bodyguards...its a bit unrealistic but I'm in love with those characters too much.
  19. Legolas Skywalker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 6
    Exactly what i was thinking
  20. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    Vos versus the Nightsisters...
    Not TCW nightsisters.JPG
    Why TCW? Why?

    [face_waiting]
    Last edited by SithStarSlayer, Jan 9, 2013
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  21. 07jonesj Force Ghost

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    Aug 16, 2010
    star 4
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  22. Watto Chosen One

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    Dec 13, 1998
    star 4
  23. JM_1977 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2011
    star 6
    Wonder if that is meant as literal or not with how dark people have hinted at how the CW is these days
  24. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    Move to Disney has less effect than we thought?
  25. rumblewagon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2004
    star 4
    What are you upset about? That those Nightsisters are blue-skinned and the TCW nightsisters are albino?
    Corrected.
    Last edited by rumblewagon, Jan 9, 2013
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