Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by RevantheJediMaster, Jul 15, 2005.
What the hell am I reading.
She is too powerful for a Padawan. Any normal Padawan who took either Grievous or Ventress alone, would never survive. If the writers were going to put her in that situation, she should have had her ass handed to her in the nether regions of the Force.
Luke took down Vader with only 1 year of Jedi training.
Ahsoka has presumably been trained since the age of, what, 4? And she's been fighting in the Clone Wars for two years now. I don't expect her to instantly die in those situations, but I don't expect her to win either.
^I doubt Luke would've survived if Vader didn't want him alive..
And none of us except the Ahsoka Dream Team Club want to see her live...
I almost feel like when the movie came out and S1 started shortly after, there was an initial thought to find a middle-ground between what Genndy did with the microseries and what the films did as Live-action. Kind of like, "Hey it is animated, so we should allow the Jedi to do things physically that maybe the films couldn't or didn't feel was realistic. Let's just not got to the extremes that the micro-series had."
So they started with Ahsoka and Anakin and Obi-wan and had Ahsoka, as a Padawan, being able to do crazy things from the perspective of other Jedi related media. Then, as the show came into its own through the first season, they started to dim it down a little bit more to make it more in line with the films - but Anakin and the other Jedi Masters retained a lot of the exceptional abilities because, hey they're masters (or the chosen one), and I think they didn't want Ahskoe to seem more helpless than they initially portrayed her as so they just said,
"Hey, she is Anakin's Padawan and I'm sure he doesn't hold her back the way other Padawan's are held back in terms of abilities. He probably lets her walk that dark side line more than Obi-wan did for him - its his way of rebelling (like a deprived child growing up vowing to give their children whatever they what type of thing). So it can make sense that she seems a little more powerful than the other Padawans."
That's how I've always seen it - a Production related obstacle that they set up for themselves off the bat, and to rectify it, they thought of an In-universe explanation for her power.
I agree, but if you notice as we got onto season 3 and beyond we have gotten, the Mortis Beings who can do very powerful things like flying, stopping a blade of a lightsaber, transfering life essence and stuff like that, to Mother Talzoin and her abilities to the creature from season 4 on that planet that Artoo and Threepio went that lives underground, to the ability of Darth Maul to use the dark side of the force to not only survive an impossible fall but live after being cut in half. Then you had Obi use the force to explode two droids in that opening slave arc of season 4. So the force has become somewhat more powerful in this series as we've moved along.
In my opinion both 2D and 3D animation can be used equally well to go places and do things a live action film can't. Animation places unmatched freedom in the wielder's hands since there aren't worries about the safety of actors or where to film. If you can draw it you can make anything happen. 3D animation is just closer to looking live action.
The Microseries plays the Jedi like incredible, over powered heroes. That's kind of cool in its own right. Ya know, I don't really dislike the infamous Mace on Dantoonie chapter. I've often thought perhaps the whole thing was told and embellished through the eyes of the child who witnessed it. I think that all boiled down to artistic interpretation of what a Jedi should be like. Its not so different from why I like Ima-Gun-Di despite his silly name and being doomed. He seemed like what I'd imagined a Jedi should be like. Kind, heroic, selfless, etc.
TCW really doesn't explore the Jedi's abilities very much, IMO. We see Jedi using familiar Force powers pretty much on par with what the PT already set the standard for. That's fine, although it wouldn't be a bad thing to see them do it more often. Most of the time in TCW the Jedi rush in with lightsabers drawn and make short work of anything that way. They often seem more like kickass action heroes then sagely superheroes in TCW. However, again, that isn't far off from how the PT played them.
I don't recall Ahsoka ever seeming very helpless to me. I never had much of a problem with her mean lightsaber skills, partly do to my own ignorance probably and partly because I figure a youngling Jedi who spent pretty much every moment of her remembered life sparring with her saber, practicing force techniques, learning languages, and I'm sure all manner of other subjects would have plenty of training. Then when she gets bored since there is no TV or facebook she can learn to use a second lightsaber if she wants. Really Ahsoka's force power with a given ability seems no more awesome than we see from every other Jedi so maybe part of the problem is the general lack of use with all the Jedi. In TCW I don't really notice a power level deference between any of the Jedi. They seem to all use the force the same way. We did see Ahsoka learn how to do a mind trick.
What was wrong when she walked on screen in the movie was Ahsoka should have lacked the practical experience earned through learning the hard way which is on the job. I think the later is where Ahsoka tends not the gel. Its worse because she is a teenager with attitude that makes Kimberly Hart look like a humble farm girl and she never seemed real inexperience. Fine for cheesy MMPR but not so much for SW.
I've really never been sure what the normal skill level of a Padawan adopted by a master is so maybe she is actually average. However perhaps being above average and a quick learner was why she was picked for Anakin by Yoda. The idea being she is supposed to train him. She is supposed to help him grow and eventually teach him to let go. Just in season 5, Ahsoka has demonstrated that despite being around Anakin all the time where she might brush against the darkside more than a Padawan with a rigid master like Barriss to Luminara, she is infact capable of letting go. She let go of Lux.
Clearly the in universe explanation is Ahsoka was advanced, powerful, and a fast learner. She has been training all her life to be a Jedi.
@Seerow Post of the year
Because I've grown tired of hearing Fives's appearance being cited for this season I'm linking to where Filoni was originally misquoted about the whole thing.
At 11:30, a fan from the audience asks Dave if Fives would appear in season five, to which Dave says that no, Fives would not be in the fifth season, but that he does have some huge stories planned for him down the road.
Can't wait for those
i kinda agree and kinda don't about ahsoka being overpowered.... obi wan himself padawan when he "killed" maul.... but then again, he was 25 during the second battle of theed. ahsoka's a teenager, but considering tcw as a kid's show, it would be appropriate to have her, the protagonist, fight against grievous and whatnot.
I guess for the most part, I've always seen it as the period of the Clone Wars radically changed things in the Jedi Order - sure there were plenty of life and death missions that the Jedi would go on in the "Days of the old republic," but until the Clone Wars, I've always thought the Jedi really weren't trying to teach force power as much as force knowledge. I see TCW as a period were everything changed - where, when Obi-wan was a padawan, the order wasn't as concerned with equipping padawan's with what they needed to become more powerful - since knowledge was more the jedi way and power was more the sith way. But at the outbreak of TCW, the order was forced into focusing more on power for the sheer fact that they were in a war and the padawan's needed more than just knowledge to survive on the battleground.
I agree with whoever said (someone in the forum) that Luke only trained for a few years to become really powerful (yea, I know he's luke) - but IMO every padawan, heck every youngling has a ridiculous potential for being able to do unbelievable things. However, the fact was that allowing the padawan's to "play" with that power (that they were capable of) so early in their training was a recipe for disaster, a path away from humility and towards the dark side. I see this as being very clear w/ Nahdar Vebb. The war forced Padawans into knighthood and towards their full potential sooner than they should have been and it didn't turn out so good for him. I think the Jedi Order kept Padawans and Younglings on very short leashes with their abilities before the clone wars. They were always capable of more, but held back. This is what frustrated Anakin so much in AOTC. He knew he was capable of a lot but was held back by Obi-wan. Then TCW breaks out, Anakin's knighted, gets to do what he wants with his potential and ends up falling to the dark side. I think the reason that Ahsoka is seen as so much more powerful than other Padawans is based on who her master is. While the rest of the masters in the Order "loosened their grip on their Padawans leashes," Anakin just (for the most part) let her go.
Its all about circumstances to me - not raw talent (although I do believe Ahsoka to be a talented Padawan). But just in general, the circumstances of the war and of Anakin being her master is what's led to the perception of her being so much more powerful than other Padawans. I think other Padawans - including Obi-wan when he was in theed, and many before him - were completely capable of the feats Ahsoka achieves - but it's verrrry dangerous to go their with such a young mind.
That one was tricky. But I found the Xenomorph behind the stage
I really, really enjoyed the shipping of Ventress with Ahsoka and Padme, that was nice.
I can see it happening too, right before Ventress guts them with her lightsaber.
A most excellent theory and well articulated.
Just a thought: if there was any tinkering done for future releases of the PT, should they add any commando droids to ROTS?
Like, where in ROTS?
For example to the Mustafar facility where the Separatist leaders were; there were some security battle droids there so I could see those being coupled with or replaced by commandos. Otherwise, maybe a few in the background at Utapau when Obi-Wan faces Grievous and the clone assault commences.
However, it's not really needed. I was just thinking about possible stuff they could add to the PT when released yet again.
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Dave say that the season finale was not in the 100th episode trailer or any trailer for that matter?
The season finale counts as the last episode, not the whole story And we've already had it confirmed that the Ahsoka arc IS the finale. Any shots we got were from the first three episodes, rather then the fourth part, I'd imagine, ergo Dave Filoni's statement is still true
Oh-ho! I like that thinking. But what I imagine as the finale episode is like after Ahsoka is brought in Mark Harmon from NCIS comes in and questions her or something along those lines. I know that's prob not that but thats just what I picture.
Well for changes to happen in future releases, you won't be able to see that till 2020