*OFFICIAL THREAD* Anakin's Origins

Well, what about Dooku? Obi-Wan even calls him a traitor in AOTC.

And, in a sense, Palpatine/Sidious is a traitor to the Republic.

Padme will be used by Sidious to bait Anakin. Anakin will rush off, as a padawan, to rescue Padme. Thus, Obi-Wan's line in ESB: "I don't want to lose you to the Emperor the way I lost Vader." Maybe he means REALLY the same way.

 

Here's my theory about Anakin's father:

Have any of you ever thought that maybe Anakin was conceived by midichlorians AND has a father. Let me explain. First of all, I've said this once and I'll say it again. If Anakin has a father, Dooku is that man. So let's say that maybe Shmi wasn't on Tatooine all her life, maybe she started out as a slave on a different planet. Now remember, Dooku was once a Jedi. So, what if Dooku rescued and maybe freed Shmi on one of his missions. In time, they fell in love and eventually got married in secret, just like Anakin and Padme'. Marriage is forbidden among Jedi, so what if he became paranoid that someone would discover his secret. It's also possible that Shmi saw the evil in him, and tried to leave him. Dooku, not wanting to risk letting her go free because of the fear that someone would discover he had been married, sold her back as a slave to the Hutts on Tatooine. On Tatooine, Shmi eventually wound up enslaved to Watto and probably helped him around his shop like Anakin did. Now for the midichlorian part. Let's say Shmi finds out she's pregnant and there's no father. She knew it wasn't Dooku's because she had been away from him for years. In nine months, Anakin was born, fatherless. If this is was, indeed, what happened, it would make sense in the Phantom Menace, when Shmi said to Qui-Gon, "There was no father. I can't explain what happened." Also, if George Lucas stated the Anakin had no father, he could have very easily pulled a trick on the audience, like he's been known to do sometimes
. He could have meant paternal father, not a father-like figure. If Anakin found out in Ep.III, that Dooku betrayed his mom, sold her (and eventually him) into slavery, and was behind the assassination attempts on Padme's life, I think that would be enough to turn him to the dark side, don't you? Anyway, this was just a thought I came up with by trying to combine both questions into one answer.

So what do you think? I look forward to your opinions.

 

Can someone tell me where this "son of suns" thing came from. I must have missed it in PT and OT.

 

Interesting thought, PDZSY. Actually, in TPM, Anakin tells Padme he and his Mom have been on Tatooine a very long time. "Since I was three, I think." So obviously they came from somewhere.

EDIT: I agree, lumpy. I never heard it in any of the films. Sounds like an EU type thing, though I must confess I know almost nothing of the EU.

 

Thanks, i-lobot, I'm glad you agree with my theory. I think if Anakin is going to have a father revealed, this is the way that would make the most sense. Then again, I'm not George Lucas, I'm sure he would have an even better way. He always does

 

I'm sure this won't come as a surprise to you, PDZSY, but theories like yours have been floated before. In fact, one of the character bios on the official site even mentions some current or former member of the Jedi Council paying a visit to Tatooine right around the time Anakin would have been born. But we'll have to let one of the more experienced posters provide that link, for I haven't a clue who the character is.

EDIT: fixed typos. Also seem to remember that it was either one of the Lost 20 or a current member of the Jedi Council who went to Tatooine. That is, current as of TPM, which is when the story was being circulated.

 

Thanks for the information, i-lobot. I'll check it out and see if I can find anything. I'll keep you posted.

 

GL said something like:
Reoccuring themes are like stanzas that rhyme. From movie to movie there are lots of motifs that are similar.

It is not that wild to conceptualize that Dooku could be Anakin's Pop. Shimi's explanation was masked with an uncomfortable aura.
Man is it cheezy, but it does make alot of other themes "Rhyme", according to GL's design concept.

There should be an explanation to Ani's real origin. This information is what Palpatine should use to help push him over.

 

I agree, Mit-Fisto. I've always been confused about Anakin's origins. I mean, the prequel trilogy was supposed to be completely about Anakin, especially his origins. But what do we really know? All we know is that he lived on Tatooine since he was three, has a mom named Shmi, he was a slave, and has the highest midi-chlorian count of any Jedi. Don't you think that we should know just a little bit more about him, considering the entire Star Wars trilogies revolve around him. Questions that need answers are: where and what was happening to Anakin before he was three, was he a slave all his life/was Shmi, and why does he have the highest midi-chlorian count/why is it even mentioned? And finally, the whole father issue needs to be addressed. Shmi said "There was no father, I can't explain what happened." What did she mean by "I can't explain what happened"? If there's one thing I've learned from watching Star Wars, it's that every line has meaning of some kind, every line has an impact on what happens in in the trilogy. To sum this up, I honestly do not think the idea of Anakin having a father in Ep.3 is totally out. Lucas has a lot of tricks up his sleave. We'll just have to wait and see...in three long years .

 

Ok, I posted this before(like, a year ago), adn I will post it again. I have actual confermation from an employee of Lucas that PALPATINE WILL IN FACT BE USING A LINE THAT WILL BE SIMALER TO THIS "Anakin I am your father."

No weither he REALLY is his father, or he's just lying to minipulate Anakin to have him join him, that has not been revieled to me at this time.

BUT I CAN GARENTEE YOU THAT THIS IS FACT! THIS SCOURCE HAS NEVER LIED TO ME BEFORE AND I HAVE CONFERMED WHO HE IS.

 

Perhaps Anakin had a creator rather than a "father".

 

Here is my vote: Anakin does not have a father.

A Virgin birth is a common facet of mythology.

 

I have thought about OT/PT parallels and variations on repeating themes, etc. I think AOTC IS like ESB and that EIII will resemble ROTJ, except it will be a completely DARK mirror of ROTJ.

If SW is partly Anakin's story (and partly the stories of the Republic's and Jedi's Fall and rebirth), then Obi-Wan and Luke are mirrors of each other. Obi-Wan is Anakin's first chance that he squanders away; Luke is his second chance that he finally takes.

If Anakin is conceived by the Force (which is like God in our own galaxy), then Anakin can also be thought of as Adam and not Jesus. Jesus cannot fall; there is no darkness in him. Adam, representing all mankind, is powerful but fallible and frail. Capable of great good and great evil. Adam is given every opportunity but falls in the Eden over a matter of apples and Eve (Anakin...eden-like Naboo...floating pear....beautiful Padme). Jesus is born to redeem mankind - Adam's descendants - just as Luke redeems Vader by repeatedly willing to give up his life (jumping in ESB, throwing down lightsaber in ROTJ, etc).

So to come back to EIII, substitute Luke for Obi-Wan, Vader for Ani, Emperor for Chancellor Palps and one has the ingredients of a super saber duel.

 

OK. We have too many threads speculating about Anakin's father. This is now the official thread on this subject and all others will be locked.

So for the folks that still don't beleve Shmi when she said "there was no father", update your favorites with this one.

 

I think we can stop making similarities between epIII and any of the other films. The reason is that EpIII I believe will be treated as its own entity,the final alone chapter. I think it will be G.L's last big chance to shock us and tie up all the different little plots created by the last 5 films.I also think that G.L knows that fans expect a schocker and that is what he will give us, not to make it similar to any other film but to leave his audience with great last big bang!!!

 

i personally don't think he truly has a father, but I do agree with a thing that Palpatine would TELL him somebody is his father, and maybe sold him and his mom into slavery - and knowing Anakin at this point and time, he would go and track down the man and kill him. Perfect way to get rid of Dooku.

 

i heard the duel between anakin & obi-wan is one of the reasons why anakin needs the vader suit to breath

 

Shmi: "There was no father. I gave birth to him, I raised him...I can't explain it."
(That might not be the exact quote, but it gets the idea across.)

The explanation that I've always fancied is that Anakin was "created" somewhere else, and implanted in Shmi without her consent/knowledge. It's hard to speculate on who would have done this, other than the obvious (Palpatine).

Of course in all likelihood, Anakin really was conceived by the midi-chlorians. End of story.

 

Possible, but a far stretch. I dont know if Anakin does have a father or not, only Lucas does, but if he does, I sure as hell hope it is not palpatine, but if it is, it would only futher cement why Vader has always stuck to his line "I must obey my master." I mean, if you think about it, Palpy might drop this line on Anakin to bring him over to the darkside, which was successful, perhaps this is why Vader played this card in ESB, hoping he would have success with Luke as Palpy did with him. But only time will tell, and I hope it's good. OoO....and if George does fall off the wagon before EpII, and Palpy is the father, and he had twins, and Anakins twin was Padme....Whoaoaoaoaa.....now I see where Leia gets her incest from....hehehe

 

Hi Croco,

Liked your idea on similar revelations being made throughout the films. Also, the idea that Ep 3 would have more in common with ESB than the corresponding 2nd movie in the trilogy, AOTC does.

So far from what we know, there will be a huge battle at the beginning of Ep 3 (like ESB). Also, Lucas stated from then on, it would be more about battles on a personal level, perhaps one-on-ones (just like ESB).

Another way of looking at Ep 3 is that it IS the middle of two trilogies, or to be more accurate the END of Ep 3 is the middle or the bridge between the two trilogies. Hence, like ESB, there will be non-resolution at the end of Ep 3 - we will be left hanging to see if Anakin's offspring will ultimately grow up and save him/the galaxy.

Also, I liked PDSY's theory on Dooku being Anakin's 'father figure'. It is highly possible that a revelation of this sort will occur. However, my gut feeling tells me that Palpatine/Sidious is the 'father figure' of Anakin. I have posted my theory elsewhere on other threads but I thought I post it here as well:

Midichlorians - why bother introducing it in the movie if the former mystical explanation of the Force will suffice? Obviously, it is a major plot point that Lucas will use to explain something in Ep 3, and I believe it has got to do with Anakin's birth. Which brings us to another point - Midichlorians & Clones. What is the relationship? In the AOTC novel, Taun We was wondering why Jedi were not used for the clone army. Yes indeed why? Taun We the cloner knows for sure that when you clone a Jedi, you will also clone his/her midichlorians! A Jedi clone army will definitely be stronger than a clone army made from a bounty hunter.

However, who made the order for the clone army? Not the Jedi, but the Sith. And with the Sith, the Rule of 2 applies. Because the two current Sith (whether it be Sidious & Maul or Sidious & Tyranus) would not want competition, they do not want a clone army of Jedi/Sith. BUT I believe Sidious made a clone of himself so that he could pull off the dual role of Palpatine/Sidious effectively. SO to satisfy the Rule of 2 as well as to move undetected in the Republic high office, he had to remove the midichlorians from his clone! Hence Palpatine remains 'undetected' by the Jedi.

Now, the logical thing to happen in Ep 3 is that Palpatine must eventually be 'retired' so that Sidious takes over. Also, Dooku/Tyranus must be eliminated for Anakin/Vader to take over his place.

What if Tyranus gets rid of Palps the clone and Anakin goes ballistic and takes out Tyranus? Then Sidious will make an appearance and explain to Anakin that Tyranus had only killed his clone/decoy.

Sidious then proclaims himself Emperor (he will still go by the name of Palpatine, cause he looks exactly like Palps). The Emperor will then brand the Jedi as traitors cause he will claim that they were in league with Dooku for starting the clone army. The Jedi escape and take Padme with them. This ignites another fuse in Anakin and he hunts them down.

As Anakin is not fully turned, the Emperor will have one final card up his sleeve. In a final confrontation between Obi-Wan (& perhaps Padme) vs Anakin in front of the Emperor, Anakin will be forced to show where his loyalty lies. Anakin wavers as he doesn't want to fight with his former mentor and the love of his life. So, ...

Emperor: No one has ever told you who your father really is.
Anakin: But I have no father.
Emperor: Yes, you are right but from a certain point of view.
Anakin: A certain point of view?
Emperor: You are the same as I. You see, it was I who removed the midichlorians from my clone and inserted them into your mother's womb!

There and then, Anakin will see that his whole life has been nothing but a lie. He ends up battling Obi-Wan but ends up almost dead. The Emperor rescues him and voila ... Darth Vader.

 

here's my guess: GL went for the immaculate conception idea hoping it would fly and it didn't. I think he was comparing Anakin (or his son...) to Christ as being the savior of Mankind, and as such, a mythological figure, sent by God and thus needing no father. Ergo, he can't back out of it now and has to go with it. He can't possibly think that pulling a rabbit out of a hat at the last second in the next episode will make it all ok. I mean, this is what he's established as being the reeason for Anakin's birth and to back out of it now would make him look undecisive, possibly even weak. He's locked in to that explanation and it sucks. If he turns around and has Palpatine tell Ani "I am your father", I'll gag.

 

GL went for the immaculate conception idea hoping it would fly and it didn't.

I disagree. In the minds of some of people the virgin birth idea didn't work, but in the minds of a lot of people, it did. I think that if you accept the fact that Anakin, it makes the line in ESB more meaningful.

 

I have proof that Vader is MOSTLY robotic. I have proof that Anakin has turned to the dark side and has been taken as Sidious' apprentice before the lava incident and I have proof that there WILL INDEED BE A LAVA INCIDENT. I spent hours at the library reading the RETURN OF THE JEDI novel, as written by George Lucas. This is good stuff. It is word for word:

"Vader's pulse and breath were machine regulated so they could not quicken; but something in his chest became more electric around his meetings with the emperor"

(Here is Ben Kenobi talking to Luke in the Dagoba system):

"If I was wrong in what I did, it certainly wouldn't have been the first time. You see, what happened to your father was my fault... When I encountered your father he was already a great pilot. But what amazed me was how strongly the force was with him. I took it upon myself to train Anakin in the ways of the Jedi. My mistake was thinking I could be as good a teacher as Yoda. I was not. Such was my foolish pride. The Emperor sensed Anakin's power and he lured him to the dark side. My pride had terrible consequences for the galaxy."

This tells me that Obi One is going to be partially to blame for Ani's transition to the Dark Side. But it gets better...

Ben Kenobi: "I also thought he could be turned back to the good side. It couldn't be done. He is more machine, now, than man -twisted and evil.

Luke: "I can't kill my father."

Ben Kenobi: "You should not THINK OF THAT MACHINE AS YOUR FATHER (this is good stuff!). When I saw what had become of him, I tried to dissuade him, to draw him back from the dark side. We fought... your father fell into a molten pit. When your father clawed his way out of that fiery pool, the change had been burned into him forever... he was Darth Vader, without a trace of Anankin Skywalker. Irredeamably dark. Scarred. Kept alive only by machinery and his own black will."

...Here is more stuff about Padme:
Ben Kenobi: "When your father LEFT, he DIDN'T know your mother was pregnant. Your mother and I KNEW HE WOULD FIND OUT EVENTUALLY, but we wanted to keep you both safe as possible, for as long as possible."

the part that says "when your father left" is refering to the Clone Wars. Any thoughts? I spent alot of time researching this. It gives much more insight than the movie does.

 

Heres a quote from the book (page 144-145)

"you should be proud of your son" Qui-Gon said after a moment. "He gives without any thought of reward."
Shmi nodded, a smile flitting over her worn face. "He knows nothing of greed. Only of dreams. He has..."
"Special powers"
The woman glanced at him warily. "Yes."
"He can see things before they happen," the Jedi Master continued. "Thats why he appears to have such quick reflexes. It is a Jedi trait."
Her eyes were fixed on him, and he did not miss the glimmer of hope that shone there. "He deserves better than a slaves life," she said quietly.
Qui-Gon kept his gaze directed out at the courtyard. "The Force is unusually strong with him, that much is clear. Who was his father?"
There was a long pause, long enough for the Jedi Master to realize he had asked a question she was not prepared to answer. He gave her time and
space to deal with the matter, not pressing her, not making it seem as if it were necessary she answer at all.
"There is no father." she said finally. She shook her head slowly. "I carried him, I gave birth to him. I raised him. I can't tell you any more than that."

Lemme repeat this: "There is no father.I carried him, I gave birth to him. I raised him. I can't tell you any more than that." That makes me beleive that
A. There really is no father but I highly doubt that or,
B. That there is indeed a father she denies(sp?) it for some unknowen reason

 

A. There really is no father but I highly doubt that or,
B. That there is indeed a father she denies(sp?) it for some unknowen reason

Why would she want to hide the father's identity? Shimi wouldn't be threatened by whoever it was, considering she was outside the Republic's influence. As TROOPS put it, Tatooine is the CENSORED of space, aka, no one really cares about it (execpt those who live there).